The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (106 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Me too. I just answered a question with a historical fact that I know from history lessons. For what it is worth, I did A Level in modern history.

That makes me a super Nazi following Astute‘s crazed logic.

I think it’s a case of crossed wires. Least I hope it is

 

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[martcov]

This thread clearly suggests otherwise

In which way?

 

[martcov]

I think it’s a case of crossed wires. Least I hope it is

I suspect it is a distraction from the RM concentration camp discussion. Accuse the accusers is a tactic.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This thread clearly suggests otherwise

Nobody’s writing alternative histories here. Allied crimes, while nowhere near comparable to the Holocaust, did still happen. It was British policy to carpet bomb, even well into 1945. History is nuanced

 

[Grendel]

Where? I said that bombing civilians is counted as a war crime today.as in Syria. Is that distasteful? You seem to think that bombing civilians is ok, and that RMs justification for concentration camps is ok. And then accuse me of being a Nazi.

You said it was in the Second World War as well and openly compared the two and condemned the Dresden bombing

It’s a stupid and disrespectful comparison and Rees mogg never justified then

 

[Grendel]

I suspect it is a distraction from the RM concentration camp discussion. Accuse the accusers is a tactic.

No I think your comments comparing Churchill to a terrorist and brutaliser of his own people is shameful

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You said it was in the Second World War as well and openly compared the two and condemned the Dresden bombing

It’s a stupid and disrespectful comparison and Rees mogg never justified then

JRM said it was done compassionately to help feed Boer families. Ignoring that it was only a necessity because we burned all their property and destroyed all the food. In Kitchener’s own words it was a deliberate policy.

Your aristocratic idol is wrong but my guess is you think the British Empire was great irrespective

 

[skybluetony176]

Correct.

He said that the Germans who started a war to take over Europe then murdered and killed many, many millions would have found Churchill guilty of bombing civilians and found themselves innocent of all charges.

Then the usual suspects turn up to defend everything that he says.

That’s still not what he said but let me se if I’ve got this right. Having won the war you think that the Nazi’s, that’s the Nazi’s, would have put themselves on trial for the atrocities that they committed during the war to clear their name of war crimes? Why?

 

[skybluetony176]

I said it was justified?

Would you like to point out where I have said that?

Of course not as I haven't. But it is a lie that looks good in a comment against someone who finds what you are saying very distasteful.

If you haven’t said it was justified then WTF are you ranting on about? By the way, someone did say it was justified so why not have a go at them for that? Given your self proclaimed neutrality.

 

[skybluetony176]

...because the Nazis obviously wouldn’t prosecute themselves. In fact if they’d won then the death camps would have been a state secret (like the Katyn massacre and Molotov-Ribbentrop pact were for the Soviets). The victors get to write history.

If the Nazis win their propaganda goes unchallenged and Hitler would clearly have gone after Churchill and Stalin. It was either him or Goebbels who called him the ‘gravedigger of Europe’. I fail to see how this makes martcov a Nazi sympathiser, genuinely.

Clearly Germany would have wagged their fingers at Churchill and Stalin, called them cheeky scamps and told them to be on their way. That’s the alternative to the suggestion that they would have been trialed by the Nazi’s. It’s madness to the point of moronic to suggest that they wouldn’t have faced retribution from the Nazi’s had the result gone the other way.

 

[Grendel]

JRM said it was done compassionately to help feed Boer families. Ignoring that it was only a necessity because we burned all their property and destroyed all the food. In Kitchener’s own words it was a deliberate policy.

Your aristocratic idol is wrong but my guess is you think the British Empire was great irrespective

He didn’t and he’s not

 

[skybluetony176]

You said it was in the Second World War as well and openly compared the two and condemned the Dresden bombing

It’s a stupid and disrespectful comparison and Rees mogg never justified then

Yes he did. He claimed that the death rate was the same as Glasgow. Aside from the fact he deliberately didn’t compare it to the death rate in South Africa outside of the camps when the government took direct control of the camps from the army following lobbying from decent MPs and pressure groups we stopped deliberately starving people and stopped the practice of deliberately not treating illnesses. Guess what? The death rates fell. Dramatically. He also tried to make out that they were refugees when in fact they were homeless because we operated a scorched earth policy that included burning down homesteads, salting the earth so crops wouldn’t grow and poisoning wells. Did you actually watch the program? If you did you would know that he didn’t mention any of that. Did you click on the link I gave you? If you did you would know that the reality was nothing like the picture RM was painting. Your notion that RM didn’t defend it is ridiculous in the extreme because he painted an entirely fictional picture of the camps.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think it’s a case of crossed wires. Least I hope it is

More deliberately tied than crossed.

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[martcov]

You said it was in the Second World War as well and openly compared the two and condemned the Dresden bombing

It’s a stupid and disrespectful comparison and Rees mogg never justified then

I condemned the Dresden bombing. That was after you chipped in. I still do. I understand arguments for it, but I think that attacking a city containing huge numbers of refugees and hardly defended as they were not a military target, was probably a war crime. The fact that the people who took part openly expressed regret in interviews and the Queen went with them to the reconsecrecation of the Frauenkirche shows that it is not just me who regrets the attacks.

Rees Mogg said the concentration camps were for the benefit of the internees.

 

[martcov]

No I think your comments comparing Churchill to a terrorist and brutaliser of his own people is shameful

Show me the comment you are referring to.

 

[martcov]

Correct.

He said that the Germans who started a war to take over Europe then murdered and killed many, many millions would have found Churchill guilty of bombing civilians and found themselves innocent of all charges.

Then the usual suspects turn up to defend everything that he says.

More lies.

Where did I say that? You are hallucinating.

 

[martcov]

Maybe if I did the same and always had a go at the UK and defended Germany you would agree with me like you do Mart.

Where have I defended Germany by saying the Nazis classed Churchill as a war criminal? The Nazis are no longer in power and lost the war BTW. You can stop hating EU foreigners now.

 

[skybluetony176]

Meanwhile back in Brexit land

Labour move to back new Brexit referendum

 

[Captain Dart]

cep study: Germany gains most from euro introduction | DW | 25.02.2019

 

[Grendel]

Yes he did. He claimed that the death rate was the same as Glasgow. Aside from the fact he deliberately didn’t compare it to the death rate in South Africa outside of the camps when the government took direct control of the camps from the army following lobbying from decent MPs and pressure groups we stopped deliberately starving people and stopped the practice of deliberately not treating illnesses. Guess what? The death rates fell. Dramatically. He also tried to make out that they were refugees when in fact they were homeless because we operated a scorched earth policy that included burning down homesteads, salting the earth so crops wouldn’t grow and poisoning wells. Did you actually watch the program? If you did you would know that he didn’t mention any of that. Did you click on the link I gave you? If you did you would know that the reality was nothing like the picture RM was painting. Your notion that RM didn’t defend it is ridiculous in the extreme because he painted an entirely fictional picture of the camps.

Mart liked your post

 

[Grendel]

Where have I defended Germany by saying the Nazis classed Churchill as a war criminal? The Nazis are no longer in power and lost the war BTW. You can stop hating EU foreigners now.

The 4th Reich is alive and kicking

 

[Ian1779]

I'm surprised we haven't got round to discussing the fact that Rees Mogg and McDonnell both own some Black Russian Gerbils, so are clearly in the pay of Putin.

Bloody Marxist gerbils.... coming over here with their socialism....

 

[Grendel]

Bloody Marxist gerbils.... coming over here with their socialism....

Back in Venezuela?

 

[Astute]

You do spouit some absolute bollocks.

Seriously, you seem an OK bloke, but on this thread you've gone utterly barking mad, playing the victim, reading things that aren't there, and deciding the world is against you.

Step away from the keyboard!

I don't play the victim.

Would you like to give your reason why it is OK for Mart to go on about Churchill being a war criminal on a thread about the EU?

 

[Astute]

...because the Nazis obviously wouldn’t prosecute themselves. In fact if they’d won then the death camps would have been a state secret (like the Katyn massacre and Molotov-Ribbentrop pact were for the Soviets). The victors get to write history.

If the Nazis win their propaganda goes unchallenged and Hitler would clearly have gone after Churchill and Stalin. It was either him or Goebbels who called him the ‘gravedigger of Europe’. I fail to see how this makes martcov a Nazi sympathiser, genuinely.

And now you have made up more crap.

Go on. For once show where someone has said what you have said they have. Where have I called him a Nazi sympathiser. He has to be careful what he says as much is illegal especially in Germany.

But as I keep saying I want to k ow why he is labelling Churchill as a war criminal especially as he has lived in Germany most of his life.

 

[Astute]

Where? I said that bombing civilians is counted as a war crime today.as in Syria. Is that distasteful? You seem to think that bombing civilians is ok, and that RMs justification for concentration camps is ok. And then accuse me of being a Nazi.

No. You keep on going on about everyone who has bombed civilians. Yet your get out clause on Germany is that if they had won the war they wouldn't have found themselves guilty.

Why don't you list the atrocities Germany did?

 

[Astute]

Nobody’s writing alternative histories here. Allied crimes, while nowhere near comparable to the Holocaust, did still happen. It was British policy to carpet bomb, even well into 1945. History is nuanced

Nobody has said any differently. But guess the person who lists what everyone did except for Germany.

 

[Astute]

If you haven’t said it was justified then WTF are you ranting on about? By the way, someone did say it was justified so why not have a go at them for that? Given your self proclaimed neutrality.

Ah didn't take you long to be a cock again did it?

 

[Astute]

More lies.

Where did I say that? You are hallucinating.

Did you say that Germany would have found themselves innocent of all charges?

Did Germany start the war and murder millions of people?

Of course you didn't mention the mass murders by Germany. You have forgotten to mention anything bad they have done. But you still make the point that Churchill is a war criminal.

Me hallucinating? No. You piss me off having a dig at the UK whenever you can.

 

[Astute]

Where have I defended Germany by saying the Nazis classed Churchill as a war criminal? The Nazis are no longer in power and lost the war BTW. You can stop hating EU foreigners now.

So now the Nazis wouldn't have classed Churchill as a war criminal?

You still haven't explained why you started all this crap off. Why did you start on Churchill?

 

[skybluetony176]

Ah didn't take you long to be a cock again did it?

I guess it depends on what you mean by cock. My definition would be someone who justifies the indiscriminate bombing of civilians. Whereas you think someone is a cock if they don’t think indiscriminate bombing of civilians is justifiable. I guess it’s all about perspective. For the record if thinking that the indiscriminate bombing of civilians isn’t justifiable makes you a cock then I wear that badge with pride.

 

[skybluetony176]

Mart liked your post

Did you see the YouTube link I put up for you. It dumbs down why RM was trying to justify the South African concentration camps with what can only be described as bullshit. Thought it might help you out.

 

[martcov]

So now the Nazis wouldn't have classed Churchill as a war criminal?

You still haven't explained why you started all this crap off. Why did you start on Churchill?

You have serious comprehension problems.

I said Nazis would have tried him in answer to a question from someone else. I didn’t start this discussion. Ask him.

 

[martcov]

Did you say that Germany would have found themselves innocent of all charges?

Did Germany start the war and murder millions of people?

Of course you didn't mention the mass murders by Germany. You have forgotten to mention anything bad they have done. But you still make the point that Churchill is a war criminal.

Me hallucinating? No. You piss me off having a dig at the UK whenever you can.

I haven’t had a dig at the UK. I answered a question with a fact.

I said the Nazis would have come out with some excuses to play down their own crimes.

We are not talking about present day Germany, the question was about the Nazi regime.

You have serious comprehension problems.

We are not at war with your hated Germans.