The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

[Sumo the Micky Quinn]

I also believe the unelected house of lords can dismiss a new law.

 

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[Moff]

And confirmed that people are stupid.

I abstained from voting, but reading arrogant shit like this I wish I had voted out.

Using your logic, you must be stupid as I disagree with you a lot on this site, and of course I am always right, so you are just stupid.

 

[chiefdave]

You are a clown aren't you. I know plenty of friends who are well educated with degrees, PHD's and doctorates. Some voted for, some against. Unlike you I respect their opinions whether I agree or not, but I am not such an arrogant prick to think they were uneducated if they voted leave, or remain.

 

[Moff]

View attachment 5362

So does that prove that all those who voted to leave were uneducated?

Put your graphs away, I stated what I know, that all those who voted out are not thick and all those that voted remain aren't all educated. Don't drop to Shmeees level, as whatever the side you were on there were some who knew more than others.

 

[martcov]

So does that prove that all those who voted to leave were uneducated?

Put your graphs away, I stated what I know, that all those who voted out are not thick and all those that voted remain aren't all educated. Don't drop to Shmeees level, as whatever the side you were on there were some who knew more than others.

I think that the facts speak for themselves - they are neither arrogant nor insulting - just facts ( and no it doesn't mean all leavers are thick ).

 

[CCFC Germany]

It's the left wing voters in this country who decided to leave.

My post was just a reply to specualtions about the outcome of the upcoming elections in Germany.

 

[Moff]

I think that the facts speak for themselves - they are neither arrogant nor insulting - just facts ( and no it doesn't mean all leavers are thick ).

Fucking hell, its small minded people like you that make me wish I had voted out.

Shmeee said all those that voted out were thick. I said this wasn't true, and it was an arrogant comment. Dave a poster I respect came along trying to prove a petty point about who voted what, and here are you as usual trying to jump on the back of it.

The irony is Shmeee wasn't correct, and I wasn't bothered about percentages and the exact demographics, but yet here you are trying to petty point score over a point that in its first instance by Shmeee was neither factually correct nor well thought out.

 

[martcov]

Fucking hell, its small minded people like you that make me wish I had voted out.

Shmeee said all those that voted out were thick. I said this wasn't true, and it was an arrogant comment. Dave a poster I respect came along trying to prove a petty point about who voted what, and here are you as usual trying to jump on the back of it.

The irony is Shmeee wasn't correct, and I wasn't bothered about percentages and the exact demographics, but yet here you are trying to petty point score over a point that in its first instance by Shmeee was neither factually correct nor well thought out.

I was actually agreeing with you, but pointing out that the graphs represented neutral facts and were themselves neither arrogant nor insulting.

 

[Moff]

I was actually agreeing with you, but pointing out that the graphs represented neutral facts and were themselves neither arrogant nor insulting.

Ok, my mistake and apologies on my behalf. I am possibly losing the will with the whole debate. I shouldn't have entered it either, and shall take my leave.

I hope it doesn't have a negative effect on your business in Germany. That sucks, and I just hope someone in this whole situation (government wise) knows what they are doing

 

[chiefdave]

Dave a poster I respect came along trying to prove a petty point about who voted what, and here are you as usual trying to jump on the back of it.

Wasn't trying to prove any point, just trying to give some information

 

[martcov]

Ok, my mistake and apologies on my behalf. I am possibly losing the will with the whole debate. I shouldn't have entered it either, and shall take my leave.

I hope it doesn't have a negative effect on your business in Germany. That sucks, and I just hope someone in this whole situation (government wise) knows what they are doing

Yes, I thought you had misunderstood. The problem with referenda is that they can be easily manipulated - which is why Hitler and Putin like them. The Mail, Express etc. have been blaming the EU for everything and never take an objective or positive stance. Unfortunately people take these crap papers on face value. So the propaganda works. Sometimes I sell Irish products, so it will be interesting to compare sales as to whether my Irish products stay the same and the British sales go down.

 

[Moff]

Wasn't trying to prove any point, just trying to give some information

My bad...apologies Dave!

I had a bad case of the referendum!

 

[Grendel]

Yes, I thought you had misunderstood. The problem with referenda is that they can be easily manipulated - which is why Hitler and Putin like them. The Mail, Express etc. have been blaming the EU for everything and never take an objective or positive stance. Unfortunately people take these crap papers on face value. So the propaganda works. Sometimes I sell Irish products, so it will be interesting to compare sales as to whether my Irish products stay the same and the British sales go down.

Hogwash I am afraid. If Corbyn as a socialist who has always been anti EU had stood and said he really passionately believed in the project then some Labour followers would have switched

Still I note that if the chancer Sturgeon calls a referendum she will in your eyes be like Hitler or Putin

 

[Grendel]

Out of interest when the Banks and House builders crashed in the recession were you thinking of emigrating then? were you on the site bemoaning the state of the economy then?

The economy and shares recovered, as they will again, but it will take time. I am worried, but the over the top analysis and hyperbole in the press and on this site is absolutely ridiculous.

This is Tony we are talking about. I do not think talking absolute shite on an internet forum will be a transferable skill. He "likes" New Zealand apparently. Perhaps UKIP Tone thinks they are in the EU

 

[chiefdave]

If Corbyn as a socialist who has always been anti EU had stood and said he really passionately believed in the project then some Labour followers would have switched

So your criticism of Corbyn is that he didn't lie?
The stats I've seen suggest 63% of Labour voters were remain. That compares to 64% for the SNP yet there are demands (mainly from the Blairites) for Corbyn to go and not a word against Sturgeon.

 

[Grendel]

So your criticism of Corbyn is that he didn't lie?
The stats I've seen suggest 63% of Labour voters were remain. That compares to 64% for the SNP yet there are demands (mainly from the Blairites) for Corbyn to go and not a word against Sturgeon.

Corbyn did lie as he is anti EU. Where on earth did you get that stat from regarding Labour voters? Tonight Caroline Flint claimed that if one in 20 of the traditional labour voters had switched to remain then they would have won - and firmly put the blame on Corbyn

 

[Sumo the Micky Quinn]

Just seen this on the Ryanair website.



Sorry about the picture quality.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Cant believe the condesending approach of the remain voters towards the leave voters. Still moaning and trying to push for a second referendum because they didnt get the result they wanted.
Some of my mates were even moaning to me about it all being about immigration. Just shows that giving someone a university education doesn't stop them being ignorant.

 

[Ian1779]

So your criticism of Corbyn is that he didn't lie?
The stats I've seen suggest 63% of Labour voters were remain. That compares to 64% for the SNP yet there are demands (mainly from the Blairites) for Corbyn to go and not a word against Sturgeon.

I thought it was as high as 70% as reported in some outlets.

The Blairites may want Corbyn out, but the membership (which has dramatically increased since his leadership) will just put him back there.

 

[chiefdave]

Where on earth did you get that stat from regarding Labour voters? Tonight Caroline Flint claimed that if one in 20 of the traditional labour voters had switched to remain then they would have won - and firmly put the blame on Corbyn

YouGov have the Labour remain vote at 69%, LAP have it at 63%.

Would be interesting to see where Caroline Flint has got her data from.

I don't believe for a second that the comments Flint is making or the leadership challenge is anything to do with Corbyn's performance in the referendum. Its the same people in the party who didn't want him in to start off with and have been trying to damage him ever since. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. They have a big problem in that the PLP is so out of step with its membership. If they get a leadership contest and Corbyn stands again there's every chance he will win again.

 

[Grendel]

I thought it was as high as 70% as reported in some outlets.

The Blairites may want Corbyn out, but the membership (which has dramatically increased since his leadership) will just put him back there.

Bit odd. So it was the Conservative elements in places like Sunderland who made the difference? Surprised the City of London voted remain

 

[chiefdave]

The Blairites may want Corbyn out, but the membership (which has dramatically increased since his leadership) will just put him back there.

Exactly. They should now be working together to take advantage of the turmoil in the Conservative party but seem happier to destroy their own party. It needs to come to a head one way or another but I suspect if they are successful in removing Corbyn they will lose a lot of the supporters he attracted. The question is can they win an election when they are pretty much the same as the Tories? Blair managed it but would it happen again?

 

[Grendel]

YouGov have the Labour remain vote at 69%, LAP have it at 63%.

Would be interesting to see where Caroline Flint has got her data from.

I don't believe for a second that the comments Flint is making or the leadership challenge is anything to do with Corbyn's performance in the referendum. Its the same people in the party who didn't want him in to start off with and have been trying to damage him ever since. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. They have a big problem in that the PLP is so out of step with its membership. If they get a leadership contest and Corbyn stands again there's every chance he will win again.

It would be interesting to see how YouGov arrived at that. I didn't realise the likes of Sunderland were so affluent.

Pretend all you want but this happened due to the Labour party adopting a federalist stance and taking its voters for granted. Labour has abandoned its core voters and pursued a strategy of appealing to the middle class elite.

Now these people are just viewed as old, uneducated and unworthy of a voice

So they now have a voice

 

[Grendel]

Exactly. They should now be working together to take advantage of the turmoil in the Conservative party but seem happier to destroy their own party. It needs to come to a head one way or another but I suspect if they are successful in removing Corbyn they will lose a lot of the supporters he attracted. The question is can they win an election when they are pretty much the same as the Tories? Blair managed it but would it happen again?

You seem to ignoring the fact Corbyn is anti EU and wanted to leave but prostituted himself to cling to power. If Corbyn was true to his dogma he would have urged voters to leave as all real socialists would

 

[lifeskyblue]

What I don't understand is how the media is so certain about the percentages of each age group and who they voted for. I thought it was a secret ballot...and the on the night prediction that remain would win was so far out why not the age related figures?


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[chiefdave]

So it was the Conservative elements in places like Sunderland who made the difference?

The unknown, at least I haven't seen any data for it, is how the remaining 28% would have voted had they cast their vote.

Will be interesting to see follow up polls and look at how much of a change there is when people realise the £350m isn't coming and we won't be able to do much about immigration.

 

[chiefdave]

You seem to ignoring the fact Corbyn is anti EU and wanted to leave but prostituted himself to cling to power. If Corbyn was true to his dogma he would have urged voters to leave as all real socialists would

Not ignoring it at all. I think you mistakenly believe I am a Corbyn supporter and for some reason expect him to be the only politician who doesn't bend the truth (at best).

From what I have seen and heard from him during the campaign he has acknowledged that there are many problems with the EU but that we can't change anything if we walk away. He seems to favour union harmonisation across Europe and protection of workers rights.

On this he's not a million miles away from my own point of view. There's many things in the EU I'm not a fan of but I still think staying in it is our best option.

 

[martcov]

Hogwash I am afraid. If Corbyn as a socialist who has always been anti EU had stood and said he really passionately believed in the project then some Labour followers would have switched

Still I note that if the chancer Sturgeon calls a referendum she will in your eyes be like Hitler or Putin

Oh come on Grendel. Because Hitler and Putin used Referenda doesn't mean every person who calls a Referendum is the same in other points as Hitler or Putin.

 

[chiefdave]

I thought it was a secret ballot

The ballots are never secret, all papers are numbered. However the numbers can only be matched to voters with the authority of the High Court or Parliament. In theory after the count they are supposed to be officially sealed. In practice they are, or at least were, all sent to a warehouse in Essex where they sit for the time period they are required to be kept before being burnt.

The stats you see on the news etc come from various polls which are supposed to be a representative sample to give an indication what the country as a whole as done. TV ratings are done the same way.

 

[lifeskyblue]

The ballots are never secret, all papers are numbered. However the numbers can only be matched to voters with the authority of the High Court or Parliament. In theory after the count they are supposed to be officially sealed. In practice they are, or at least were, all sent to a warehouse in Essex where they sit for the time period they are required to be kept before being burnt.

The stats you see on the news etc come from various polls which are supposed to be a representative sample to give an indication what the country as a whole as done. TV ratings are done the same way.

Thanks Dave. So I wonder why we take the figures on age related voting as authoritative when polls are consistently inaccurate. If we believed the polls the tories wouldn't be in power and we would still be in Europe.


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[chiefdave]

Jesus, we need to bring in some sort of intelligence test before people are allowed to vote!


This one's worth a look as well.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html

 

[chiefdave]

Thanks Dave. So I wonder why we take the figures on age related voting as authoritative when polls are consistently inaccurate. If we believed the polls the tories wouldn't be in power and we would still be in Europe.

Because its the most accurate indication we have. Theoretically you could computerise the whole voting system and have 100% accurate anonymous data but you would never trust any public body enough to hold that sort of data securely.

 

[King of the Lesbians]

View attachment 5362

Is this from Thursday or 2011? Bit confused...

 

[lifeskyblue]

Jesus, we need to bring in some sort of intelligence test before people are allowed to vote!


This one's worth a look as well.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html

the education system clearly working well


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[chiefdave]

Is this from Thursday or 2011? Bit confused...

From Thursday. The 2011 bit is the date of the last census which would have been used to profile the regions,