SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
They will argue that does not constitute a majority. They will argue the majorty want to remain especially once you add the non-voters in
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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Apparently it is when it comes to the Tories and Labour manifestos from the last election. Some posters are trying to have their cake and eat it on this point.
The SNP stood the last election as a clear remain party, stood the council elections as a clear remain party and stood the Euro elections as a clear remain party and has seen its vote share grow since the last election.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Now you know more than professor John Curtice amazing
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s irrelevant using your own logic on a different post. You’re trying to have your cake and eat it to clutch at straws. I at least have the dignity to acknowledge that both parties are split and discount them from my conclusions. Even when the split favours remain.
Of course some will but the reality is we’ve been trying to leave for 2.5 years. All we ever hear is “will of the people” etc. Farage has pushed this narrative of betrayal and people not being listened to but it’s madness. Leavers are the only people being listened to and it’s used as ammunition for harder Brexit.
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Because Brexit will be the first step in managing to control migration, in time that SHOULD{ but that's debateable} lead to a control of all migration. Migration is important and necessary but has to be controlled and targeted to ensure that the UK isn't just being sought after as a quick route to our welfare state, NHS, schooling and established infrastructure.
I don't blame people at all for wanting to come here, I don't have issue with their motives or the people themselves but there is only so much you can get on this life raft before it sinks taking everyone down.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t as the Tory vote will be leave other than a tiny percentage
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Someone I seem to remember you dismissed at the general elections. Again having your cake and eating it. John Curtice actually said last night that if you discount SNP and Plaid then England and Wales are split 50/50. If you then factor in Scotland and Northern Ireland it’s only an indicator that the mood has changed since the referendum.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Nope he didn’t and the results mirror the map of the way the country voted last time
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Leavers are the only people being listened to? Are we on the same Island???
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Firstly, we can manage migration now.
Secondly, as I pointed out migration has a positive affect on NHS and welfare. The idea that those systems are under strain due to migration is a complete falsehood that has been pushed by politicians because it’s believable at first glance.
Thirdly, if we want trade deals with countries outside of the EU immigration may well be one of their demands. The irony is Brexit may just lead to immigration of more people from outside Europe and a bit less from inside.
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
As I see it, the results show:
- UKIP vote all went to Brexit
- Leavers for Tory went Brexit
- Remainers for Labour went Lib Dem or Green
- I wouldn't read too much into this for a GE. It was a free hit protest vote because these MEP's are probably only going to be there a few months.
- Farage stated after the last Euro elections UKIP would be a huge force to be reckoned with in a GE and when we had one shortly after they made very little headway in FPTP and they actually had a manifesto on issues beyond Brexit. Brexit is "leave the EU with no deal". That is it.
-If the younger voters came out in larger numbers I think the greens would do quite well for them, and Lib Dems would get a small improvement but still nowhere near where they were pre-coalition.
-Labour and Conservative would lose votes, but would be protected by FPTP.
-There would be quite a high likelihood of a hung parliament, but if one party were to win outright I'd expect it to be Tory, especially under a new leader, and esp. Boris.
- UKIP vote all went to Brexit
- Leavers for Tory went Brexit
- Remainers for Labour went Lib Dem or Green
- I wouldn't read too much into this for a GE. It was a free hit protest vote because these MEP's are probably only going to be there a few months.
- Farage stated after the last Euro elections UKIP would be a huge force to be reckoned with in a GE and when we had one shortly after they made very little headway in FPTP and they actually had a manifesto on issues beyond Brexit. Brexit is "leave the EU with no deal". That is it.
-If the younger voters came out in larger numbers I think the greens would do quite well for them, and Lib Dems would get a small improvement but still nowhere near where they were pre-coalition.
-Labour and Conservative would lose votes, but would be protected by FPTP.
-There would be quite a high likelihood of a hung parliament, but if one party were to win outright I'd expect it to be Tory, especially under a new leader, and esp. Boris.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The National Front in France do not want to leave either the EU or even the Euro. They just want wholesale reform of the EU so your assessment is incorrect. They actually see Ferage as an extremist (wow) and have refused to work with him historically.
Their voice dominates the conversation while remainers (around half the country) are labelled traitors. Brexit has dominated the nation for years. To say leavers are dismissed is absurd.
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Good points but I think Brexit Ltd will do better than UKIP in GE. Question is by how much and how their influence changes the conservatives.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s one man one vote in a referendum. How the votes are spread is irrelevant. More straw clutching.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s not irrelevant as the split is virtually identical to the result last time by region and by the areas within those regions m
Even Mad Mart is keeping his distance on this one
No one has ever shown me an unbiased report on the true economic effects of mass migration. Most I've read suggest that the tax receipt benefit is outweighed by the strain on services and infrastructure, NHS, Schools, roads, environment, crime and security. Again I don't blame individuals but our successive governments have allowed systematic abuse.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced. I think the fact that they've been around for such a short time helped them last night - it didn't give enough time or get enough press coverage for the lunatics and racists to be revealed. A GE would do that. Plus Leavers want the right to make our own laws - why vote for a party that doesn't have any policies on what those laws should be.
However, I can see the Tories going much harder to the right and no deal as a response, just as I can see Labour changing to be more pro-Remain. Last GE they went for soft-Brexit stance but recently they've become more vocal on second referendum etc and I can see them going further in a remain direction given how the leftie Lib Dem and Greens did, esp if they got rid of Corbyn.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Marine le pen, February 2019
"I think Europe is moving toward a return of nation-states, and we're part of this great political movement supporting this shift," National Rally leader Marine Le Pen said in an interview with Anglophone journalists recently, as she called the European Union a failure in every way
Sounds like she's proper pro EU tony
"I think Europe is moving toward a return of nation-states, and we're part of this great political movement supporting this shift," National Rally leader Marine Le Pen said in an interview with Anglophone journalists recently, as she called the European Union a failure in every way
Sounds like she's proper pro EU tony
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Obviously we aren't then. Or you have very selective hearing.
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Remainers tend to forget that they've had the media, social media and most of Parliament on their side trying to brainwash the nation for 3 years with their totally pro remain bias, Its a good trait to have being willfully ignorant of what's actually happening
Even young adults in university have their professors brainwashing them too.... Glorious
The Lurker
Well-Known Member
lol what maths school did you go to?
immigration puts a massive burden on the nhs, housing and education.
the more people in the country the more pressure it puts on the services. if you live in cov and walk through it’s city centre it’s full of foreign women with 2 - 3 kids in tow. I’m all for immigration if it helps the economy but most immigrants don’t. also if you worked on the building sites. the poles will work for a cheaper wage compared to the home born workers which in turn makes its cheaper for the big companies to use cheaper labour. that’s why companies want to say in the EU. the cost of living is rising but not wages. most working on minimum wage is foreign workers. what does that say.
Social media is dominated by leave except twitter.
The media has not helped the remain cause at all. Farage is fawned over and Brexiters are allowed to shout nonsense without being challenged. Question Time audience is full of UKIP candidates who are given a chance to speak and then shared by their social media teams.
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
How did you get to that conclusion?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Marine Le Pen did an interview with C4 news on Friday where she said exactly what I just said. Whether that leaves you thick and uninformed I’ll leave you to decide but the weight of evidence straight from the horses mouth is not weighted in your favour.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Do you have any evidence on the Question Time audience comment?
I’m sorry but the maths don’t back up your point. On average immigrants pay more in compared to us. This is mainly because we have an ageing population and immigrants tend to be younger.
Cost of living and wage growth is a massive problem but the proponents of Brexit want to do deals with the Americans who will just make those issues worse.
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Lol, marine le pen changing a lifetime opinion in 12 weeks... My word who would have thought
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
One of the brexit papers had a headline of treason when May first released papers on the brexit withdrawal bill. Then a couple of weeks later had the headline of treason again when Parliament didn’t vote it though.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
This is utter nonsense
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with an election where shed pretty much stated it was her vs Macron I assume?
What she said was she’d propose a series of reforms France needs to the EU - she didn’t say what her stance would be if she didn’t get her way - which she won’t
Yes. Several times UKIP councillors have managed to get a question from the audience and the QT social media team have shared the video of it. At one point it was happening every week.
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
She is anti EU, I don't even know how Tony can deny this.