The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (52 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Astute
Well-Known Member
Correct.
I want and need the same result as him. But i can't ignore everything wrong with the EU. I don't like the way it is run. It should be a much better benefit for those members in the EU.
And i am not willing to call people thick for not wanting what i want.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I agree that I don't like the way the EU is run. But the UK government is hardly much better. Mainly run for those with wealth, power and influence and favouring their mates and associates.
We get no say in appointments to the second house of parliament. We don't even get to choose the PM - that's down to party members. May got to take over from Cameron as PM due to the party, not the will of the people. Same will occur with May's successor.
Business contracts are routinely handed out to companies who are easily linked to individuals in government and high ranking civil servants.
Scandals like cash for questions or flouting laws for personal gifts or party donations (F1 advertising etc)
They start inquiries/research for white papers and totally ignore the findings if it doesn't fit in with their preconceived thoughts/ideas or help their mates/donors out. Drugs policy? Professor stated legalisation would be best and min alcohol pricing, govt didn't like it so tried to discredit him. Fracking? Research said it was short-term and environmentally damaging - ignored and done anyway. Same with nuclear. Experts said finance sector should be more regulated - again ignored and govt wanted more deregulation, despite historic evidence showing they're terrible at it due to personal greed and eventually puts us all in the shit when it goes wrong, all because a lot of their mates work in the sector and want to make more money. Massive opposition from the public for cuts - pushed through anyway. Massive public support for crackdown on tax avoidance largely ignored apart from a bit of lip service but no intention to actually follow up. Intelligence services said giving Huawei part of 5G contract would be potentially dangerous for national security. May ignored it through choice.
Arms deals with countries who are linked with using them in human rights abuses.
When leaks are exposed of potential wrongdoing focus is to find the source of the leak and punish them, not those that were trying to do wrong. Protecting their own.
MP's only in it for their own personal gain and making stackloads from expenses and flipping houses etc.
MP's becoming more and more distant and removed from the general public and actively avoiding them if at all possible.
This isn't a Tory bashing exercise - it's aimed at all those in government and if anything is far more annoying coming from a Labour government who purportedly are there for the common man (sorry, common person).
These are the actions of a UK government who didn't have to make those decisions because of some EU law. They did so because they wanted to, and these are the same people we want to 'return' control to?
A lot of those MP's who supported Leave did so because the EU wanted greater regulation of financial services and refused to allow the City special dispensation, but that was going to harm a lot of MP's very rich mates who work there. Similarly a lot wanted to leave because the EU weren't likely to bend over backwards to allow a US trade deal that effectively just does away with many of our environmental and labour protections so some big corps can earn billions. This is not in the best interests of the country and its people - it is in the interests of a few individuals.
The EU is far from perfect, but please don't make out UK government is any better - it's not.
We get no say in appointments to the second house of parliament. We don't even get to choose the PM - that's down to party members. May got to take over from Cameron as PM due to the party, not the will of the people. Same will occur with May's successor.
Business contracts are routinely handed out to companies who are easily linked to individuals in government and high ranking civil servants.
Scandals like cash for questions or flouting laws for personal gifts or party donations (F1 advertising etc)
They start inquiries/research for white papers and totally ignore the findings if it doesn't fit in with their preconceived thoughts/ideas or help their mates/donors out. Drugs policy? Professor stated legalisation would be best and min alcohol pricing, govt didn't like it so tried to discredit him. Fracking? Research said it was short-term and environmentally damaging - ignored and done anyway. Same with nuclear. Experts said finance sector should be more regulated - again ignored and govt wanted more deregulation, despite historic evidence showing they're terrible at it due to personal greed and eventually puts us all in the shit when it goes wrong, all because a lot of their mates work in the sector and want to make more money. Massive opposition from the public for cuts - pushed through anyway. Massive public support for crackdown on tax avoidance largely ignored apart from a bit of lip service but no intention to actually follow up. Intelligence services said giving Huawei part of 5G contract would be potentially dangerous for national security. May ignored it through choice.
Arms deals with countries who are linked with using them in human rights abuses.
When leaks are exposed of potential wrongdoing focus is to find the source of the leak and punish them, not those that were trying to do wrong. Protecting their own.
MP's only in it for their own personal gain and making stackloads from expenses and flipping houses etc.
MP's becoming more and more distant and removed from the general public and actively avoiding them if at all possible.
This isn't a Tory bashing exercise - it's aimed at all those in government and if anything is far more annoying coming from a Labour government who purportedly are there for the common man (sorry, common person).
These are the actions of a UK government who didn't have to make those decisions because of some EU law. They did so because they wanted to, and these are the same people we want to 'return' control to?
A lot of those MP's who supported Leave did so because the EU wanted greater regulation of financial services and refused to allow the City special dispensation, but that was going to harm a lot of MP's very rich mates who work there. Similarly a lot wanted to leave because the EU weren't likely to bend over backwards to allow a US trade deal that effectively just does away with many of our environmental and labour protections so some big corps can earn billions. This is not in the best interests of the country and its people - it is in the interests of a few individuals.
The EU is far from perfect, but please don't make out UK government is any better - it's not.
I overheard conversations, and people said their opinions. That is not actively polling, it is observing.
Well said.
Fxxk off.
You really are a sick person. People talk, swap stories. My family are from different walks of life. Some swapped opinions. The opinion range fitted the demographics of the referendum. That’s all.
Some are undoubtedly thick, others aren’t. I have called Dugdale and Bazza thick, solely because they are. Nothing to do with Brexit.
Thick.
Thick. Internet Troll. Fuck off.
Ok so putting the veracity of your claim aside for a second, because the EU gave a grant to one factory you have no issue with the Brexiters plan being to let an entire sector die off? Tens of thousands of families without an income because the EU did something that annoyed you?
What happens to the economy when all those people can’t meet their mortgage payments at the same time?
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Nobody is claiming otherwise. Were you clumsily trying to divert from the fact Farage is working with Bannon and Trump against the British people?
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Dugdale is the troll on this thread. He says he only comes on this thread for his „entertainment“.
Hardly ever says anything to do with the subject. Just behaves like a total moron as that is his form of entertainment apparently.
Grendel is always deflecting when things aren’t going his way and gladly encourages the likes of Dugdale and Bazza to disrupt the conversation. Takes the heat off him.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Very good post.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I deflect nothing - the Eu is your Koran and what Dugde says is correct - you cannot construct a rational argument, convince no one and resort to tub thumping Trump style Evangelical drivel.
You are genuinely a great argument for leaving the Eu as it’s full of people like you
You constantly deflect. The EU is not my Koran. Dugdale says nothing constructive.
You are now a pensioner on at least 3000 a month after tax, who drives a Jag, who claims to be anti EU because you have always hated it. You don’t give a toss about people not in your comfortable position.
You mix up the EU being like the Roman Empire trying to be clever using a quote from someone who was talking about the Holy Roman Empire. You couldn’t understand the difference between a monetary union ( the Eurozone) and a fiscal union. You didn’t realise that Switzerland is in Schengen when you were on about how easy to get into non EU countries. The list goes on and on.
Then when anyone starts pointing out the bloody obvious, you go into insult-modus.
Another classic leaver profile. It really is no surprise that you support the leader and his UKIP 2.0 party.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
These are all laughable lies. I fully understand a fiscal and monetary union as an example and constantly asked questions on this which you fail to answer
As an example on fiscal union - I will try again - can the uk set a vat rate of 1% if it wants to by its own free will?
For once just answer yes or no.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
This is of course the biggest laugh of all. The reason you are so slavishly obsessed with the EU is because you live in the bosom of its wealth and opulence.
Germany IS the major beneficiary of the whole project. This I have explained numerous times and as ever ends up with you gibbering on about Bannon, Genghis Khan - anything to try and deflect from this one basic truth. Its the principal exporter in the Euro block and joining a weak currency means it is far cheaper for them to export into other countries across the whole of Europe and especially the Euro zone
The Eu does not give a toss about the less unfortunate inhabitants of its club. Do not pretend for one minute that it does. Comparing wages to inflation these countries workers are worse off in the EU than they were 10 years ago:
Greece - 23%
Croatia - 11%
Cyprus - 7%
Portugal 4%
Spain 3%
Italy 2%
Hungary 1%
What a success story - the EU response to provide even more punitive fiscal restrictions - especially to those hardest hit - oh and the wonderful Mr Junker just says the Mediterranean people need to work harder as they have always been a bit lazy.
The truth of course is this is a German dictated economic model - poor EU countries cannot devalue and even those that can will at some point be forced into the EU currency model and so incapable of even basic reactions to economic crises partly bought on by the EU economic strategy
Meanwhile the EU have always had the philosophy of feed the rich at the expense of the poor. So it extracts cheap labour from the poorest societies and uses them to make the rich richer by wage suppression in the major states. Countries impacted the most by labour drain are as follows:
Romania (6.2%)
Bulgaria (7.3%)
Latvia (8.1%)
Croatia (11.8%)
Lithuania (13.8%)
I asked you to read Dr Savvas Savouri's book on Europe - a chief economist - you have not of course taken my advice.
I have told you our wonderful veto can be removed at ANY time through further treaties which change the voting methods on key issues so rendering them useless. This was seen especially with Lisbon and the people had no say in if it was implemented or not. Countries that did and rejected it were of course in the EU democratic way ignored
I have explained to you my deep mistrust of having the EU bank rates effectively tied to a German bank rate which is artificially suppressed as this is the only way of funding paralysed EU countries (the lazy ones in the Med) with affordable loan rates and than I cannot see this as sustainable. We have of course seen on attempt by the UK to tie itself to the EU and that went really well with interest rates soaring to over 16%
Medium term the EU seeks greater integration - it always has done. This is why cabinet minutes show the EU true intent was hidden from the UK in the original referendum in the 1970's - shock, horror the people were misled. Greater fiscal union, more countries tied to a single currency and greater centralisation of powers to benefit the principal economic powerhouse.
These are the facts and this is why I want out
Astute
Well-Known Member
I am angry because the EU did something? I am ignoring what could go wrong with leaving the EU?
Yet again there is someone who ignores most of what i say and pick up on bits they can point score on.
For starters which is the bit i am angry with the EU with? I am worried about the way they are heading. They make sure they keep a hold of the power in the EU. They put in place who they want. It is always someone who wants to continue with the status quo. They kept quiet about the German car makers and what they were up to. They let them continue for years. It only stopped when other governments outside the EU found out. They had a go at people and companies that were on tax dodges. But the biggest of them all has a top job in the EU. The person who would look into what he did is himself. So guess the result. Germany needs illegal immigrants to be kept away. So they are now stranded where they arrive.
Would you like me to carry on with my worries?
Not one person who is remain whatever makes a comment when i say something they like. But when i say something they dislike they try to rip it to bits. Why?
My family is moving to France this month. Why would I be anti EU and what comes with it?
And now the latest thing is ti say why be unhappy with the way the EU is run when the UK isn't perfect. Very simple. We have the vote on who has power in the UK. Whereas with the EU..... We have to follow rules and regulations set by the EU. But they don't even follow them themselves. How about with the German car makers? Those running the EU let it continue. Now we have countless heavily polluting cars on our roads. They are now fining us for having pollution levels too high. But whose fault is it?
But yes the excuses continue to come out. And i am not allowed to be worried.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Do you not read what he posts? Look at just the last couple of days. He made accusations against me. Each time i questioned him on it he just changed the subject. And as usual hardly anyone says anything about what he says. Yet i always get asked why i don't question everyone who wants to leave.
Do you not see the irony?
It was you who brought up the factory that moved out of the U.K. as a rebuttal to a claim about Brexit destroying the manufacturing industry. It seems to be you ignoring what I say.
And I am not remain whatever and have agreed with your posts multiple times.
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I don’t see anybody calling you a sicko for gauging opinions at a funeral and this post wasn’t aimed at you.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
I am all for remaining. But i can't disagree with most of that.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Mart has called me much worse. So why should I defend him? He constantly lies on here. And I admit he gets me going sometimes.
I’m not expecting you to defend him I was just fed up with how low the debate had sunk. I’m actually interested in having a conversation and seeing different viewpoints.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
You said there was something that got me angry. How about adding that to the list that has me worried? Loaning money we loan to the EU to take jobs away from the UK.
Doesn't look good does it?
Astute
Well-Known Member
How low it has sunk? It has been in the gutter for ages. The only comments allowed by some are pro EU. A debate isn't allowed.
No it doesn’t look good but you raised that as a rebuttal to the Brexiters stating they expect to wind down the manufacturing industry as if two wrongs make a right. It seems to me our choice is between an imperfect EU and chaos and privatisation of state assets with the Brexiters.
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There seem to be very few pro EU posters and a lot of name calling from a few trolls.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
I’ve posted several arguments against him - summarised by my post above
Last time I made those points he called me a senile twat
Astute
Well-Known Member
Again something i can't disagree with.
I don't trust those running the EU and I don't trust those running the UK. But at least we get a vote on who runs the UK.
But at the end of the day thise running the UK are as bad as each other. Even the last Labour government was the Tories in disguise.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Ues a few from both sides. And all are very vocal.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yet again something that I can't disagree with :smuggrin:
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That’s just utter, easily disprovable horseshit.
I vehemently disagree with Blair’s privatisation agenda, especially in education. But the level of thought, funding and support that went into all public services compared to under the Tories is night and day. The change in 2010 as a teacher was palpable.
Child poverty down, homelessness down, read this thread and tell me New Labour were Tories:
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Is it? After he has repeatedly abused 52% of voters???
Struth - I voted the same as he did in the referendum, but still eneded up blocking him because of his blinkered, unwilling to even try to understand anything beyond his own/EU opinion.
I don't miss him at all
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