The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (50 Viewers)

[martcov]

These are all laughable lies. I fully understand a fiscal and monetary union as an example and constantly asked questions on this which you fail to answer

As an example on fiscal union - I will try again - can the uk set a vat rate of 1% if it wants to by its own free will?

For once just answer yes or no.

It is not a yes no answer as you well know. We have agreed a minimum VAT level by foregoing our veto. A minimum VAT level does not amount to a fiscal union. Macron wants a fiscal union. I think you should read up on that.

 

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[martcov]

This is of course the biggest laugh of all. The reason you are so slavishly obsessed with the EU is because you live in the bosom of its wealth and opulence.

Germany IS the major beneficiary of the whole project. This I have explained numerous times and as ever ends up with you gibbering on about Bannon, Genghis Khan - anything to try and deflect from this one basic truth. Its the principal exporter in the Euro block and joining a weak currency means it is far cheaper for them to export into other countries across the whole of Europe and especially the Euro zone

The Eu does not give a toss about the less unfortunate inhabitants of its club. Do not pretend for one minute that it does. Comparing wages to inflation these countries workers are worse off in the EU than they were 10 years ago:

Greece - 23%
Croatia - 11%
Cyprus - 7%
Portugal 4%
Spain 3%
Italy 2%
Hungary 1%

What a success story - the EU response to provide even more punitive fiscal restrictions - especially to those hardest hit - oh and the wonderful Mr Junker just says the Mediterranean people need to work harder as they have always been a bit lazy.

The truth of course is this is a German dictated economic model - poor EU countries cannot devalue and even those that can will at some point be forced into the EU currency model and so incapable of even basic reactions to economic crises partly bought on by the EU economic strategy

Meanwhile the EU have always had the philosophy of feed the rich at the expense of the poor. So it extracts cheap labour from the poorest societies and uses them to make the rich richer by wage suppression in the major states. Countries impacted the most by labour drain are as follows:

Romania (6.2%)
Bulgaria (7.3%)
Latvia (8.1%)
Croatia (11.8%)
Lithuania (13.8%)

I asked you to read Dr Savvas Savouri's book on Europe - a chief economist - you have not of course taken my advice.

I have told you our wonderful veto can be removed at ANY time through further treaties which change the voting methods on key issues so rendering them useless. This was seen especially with Lisbon and the people had no say in if it was implemented or not. Countries that did and rejected it were of course in the EU democratic way ignored

I have explained to you my deep mistrust of having the EU bank rates effectively tied to a German bank rate which is artificially suppressed as this is the only way of funding paralysed EU countries (the lazy ones in the Med) with affordable loan rates and than I cannot see this as sustainable. We have of course seen on attempt by the UK to tie itself to the EU and that went really well with interest rates soaring to over 16%

Medium term the EU seeks greater integration - it always has done. This is why cabinet minutes show the EU true intent was hidden from the UK in the original referendum in the 1970's - shock, horror the people were misled. Greater fiscal union, more countries tied to a single currency and greater centralisation of powers to benefit the principal economic powerhouse.

These are the facts and this is why I want out

Bannon is partly responsible for Trump. Bannon is a right wing extremist. Bannon is interfering in European politics. Bannon wants to found a college for right wingers to train them for future influential positions.

It is easy to post that people are worse off in some countries than before the massive crash of 2018. That wrecked the existing system. It will take years to get back to where we were. That includes in the UK.

You mean tie itself to the ESM. Monetary snake.

Greater integration is not necessarily a bad thing. Depends upon what is being integrated.

Greater fiscal union includes a transfer system and an EU finance minister whose job would include aiding the weaker countries. A bit like the federal system in Germany. Again not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[martcov]

Is it? After he has repeatedly abused 52% of voters???

Struth - I voted the same as he did in the referendum, but still eneded up blocking him because of his blinkered, unwilling to even try to understand anything beyond his own/EU opinion.

I don't miss him at all

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

No mate. I have never abused 52% of voters. I am glad you have blocked me. You are known for posts claiming that people telling their kids to boycott Wasps are in danger of them growing up as fascists, and your recent use of the holocaust to illustrate the leave majority at the referendum.

Looking at the remain side doesn’t make me blinkered.

 

[martcov]

How low it has sunk? It has been in the gutter for ages. The only comments allowed by some are pro EU. A debate isn't allowed.

Wrong again.

 

[Astute]

That’s just utter, easily disprovable horseshit.

I vehemently disagree with Blair’s privatisation agenda, especially in education. But the level of thought, funding and support that went into all public services compared to under the Tories is night and day. The change in 2010 as a teacher was palpable.

Child poverty down, homelessness down, read this thread and tell me New Labour were Tories:

Is privatisation a Labour or Tory thing?

How about the tax grab on pensions that finished off final salary pensions?

You can normally find good things a government does. But you need to look at the other side. As in how were the better things funded. You seem to have missed this point.

 

[Astute]

Wrong again.

As I said earlier why is it that no comments are ever made on what I say good about the EU but everything I say bad about the EU gets comments from many? And you are the worse out of everyone for it. You try to defend the EU for everything.

 

[martcov]

As I said earlier why is it that no comments are ever made on what I say good about the EU but everything I say bad about the EU gets comments from many? And you are the worse out of everyone for it. You try to defend the EU for everything.

There is a difference between defending the EU and pointing out where you making sweeping statements that are wrong. E.g. you just claimed that Juncker is blocking reforms, when it is various countries using their vetos in self interest. You were wrong, but I wasn’t defending anyone, just pointing out that you were wrong. If you had been right, fair enough. But you weren’t.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Thick. Internet Troll. Fuck off.

Is that all you've got in your arsenal, cry baby ? You are easy game.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

There is a difference between defending the EU and pointing out where you making sweeping statements that are wrong. E.g. you just claimed that Juncker is blocking reforms, when it is various countries using their vetos in self interest. You were wrong, but I wasn’t defending anyone, just pointing out that you were wrong. If you had been right, fair enough. But you weren’t.

But no one except you polls the public at funerals for their views on Brexit .

 

[Astute]

There is a difference between defending the EU and pointing out where you making sweeping statements that are wrong. E.g. you just claimed that Juncker is blocking reforms, when it is various countries using their vetos in self interest. You were wrong, but I wasn’t defending anyone, just pointing out that you were wrong. If you had been right, fair enough. But you weren’t.

You make out that the reforms that are wanted and needed by all the leaders of the countries in the EU are planned. But they are not. Just a few that will benefit certain countries and not giving back the power to the leaders of the countries in the EU.

This is a massive difference.

If only people were as foolish and thick as you make them out to be.

You wasn't defending anyone? That would be a first.

 

[Grendel]

Bannon is partly responsible for Trump. Bannon is a right wing extremist. Bannon is interfering in European politics. Bannon wants to found a college for right wingers to train them for future influential positions.

It is easy to post that people are worse off in some countries than before the massive crash of 2018. That wrecked the existing system. It will take years to get back to where we were. That includes in the UK.

You mean tie itself to the ESM. Monetary snake.

Greater integration is not necessarily a bad thing. Depends upon what is being integrated.

Greater fiscal union includes a transfer system and an EU finance minister whose job would include aiding the weaker countries. A bit like the federal system in Germany. Again not necessarily a bad thing.

The Massive crash of 2018? What’s that?

ESM -what’s that?

Greater integration is not a bad thing - wow deep thinking going on here

 

[Astute]

The Massive crash of 2018? What’s that?

ESM -what’s that?

Greater integration is not a bad thing - why deep thinking going on here

The crash of 2018 was where those running the EU said the UK would do the worse out of all countries in the EU. But we even did better than Germany who only just missed going into recession.

Somehow we have continued to grow even though those running the EU are supposed to know everything.

 

[martcov]

The crash of 2018 was where those running the EU said the UK would do the worse out of all countries in the EU. But we even did better than Germany who only just missed going into recession.

Somehow we have continued to grow even though those running the EU are supposed to know everything.

Who are „those“? Why did we have years of austerity if we did so well out of the crash? Germany had to bail out banks and lost billions.

 

[martcov]

The Massive crash of 2018? What’s that?

ESM -what’s that?

Greater integration is not a bad thing - wow deep thinking going on here

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/pages/publication15887_en.pdf

Greater integration „may be“ a good thing. A fiscal union for the Eurozone for example. More pooling of military assets. A more coherent foreign policy. Minimum wage as a percentage of the average wage in all EU countries. Plenty of things to debate in order to save money, make a fairer tax system and guarantee a certain income for all citizens. All of which is irrelevant to your position.

 

[martcov]

You make out that the reforms that are wanted and needed by all the leaders of the countries in the EU are planned. But they are not. Just a few that will benefit certain countries and not giving back the power to the leaders of the countries in the EU.

This is a massive difference.

If only people were as foolish and thick as you make them out to be.

You wasn't defending anyone? That would be a first.

No, I wasn’t defending anyone. Which few reforms are you talking about and which certain countries will they benefit?

 

[martcov]

But no one except you polls the public at funerals for their views on Brexit .

I don’t. So I don’t know where you get your information.

You certainly weren’t invited to my mother’s funeral.

 

[Grendel]

http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/pages/publication15887_en.pdf

Greater integration „may be“ a good thing. A fiscal union for the Eurozone for example. More pooling of military assets. A more coherent foreign policy. Minimum wage as a percentage of the average wage in all EU countries. Plenty of things to debate in order to save money, make a fairer tax system and guarantee a certain income for all citizens. All of which is irrelevant to your position.

Crash of 2018?

 

[martcov]

Crash of 2018?

2007 and 2008.. doesn’t alter my point.

 

[Grendel]

2007 and 2008.. doesn’t alter my point.

Which years did I use then?

What’s the ESM?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

That’s just utter, easily disprovable horseshit.

I vehemently disagree with Blair’s privatisation agenda, especially in education. But the level of thought, funding and support that went into all public services compared to under the Tories is night and day. The change in 2010 as a teacher was palpable.

Child poverty down, homelessness down, read this thread and tell me New Labour were Tories:

Bang on

 

[Astute]

Who are „those“? Why did we have years of austerity if we did so well out of the crash? Germany had to bail out banks and lost billions.

Try again. It was nothing to do with this.

Germany came within 0.1% of being in recession. This is growth of the economy.....or a lack of it.

 

[Astute]

Bang on

Bang on?

So a Labour government is all about taxing the workers out of their pensions? And that was just the start of it.

Are links to the Independent allowed on here?


Owen Jones: It's time to demolish the myth about Tony Blair

But as usual evidence is never enough on this thread.

 

[Sick Boy]

Bang on?

So a Labour government is all about taxing the workers out of their pensions? And that was just the start of it.

Are links to the Independent allowed on here?


Owen Jones: It's time to demolish the myth about Tony Blair

But as usual evidence is never enough on this thread.

The Independent? An opinion piece by Owen Jones? @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 will explode

 

[martcov]

Try again. It was nothing to do with this.

Germany came within 0.1% of being in recession. This is growth of the economy.....or a lack of it.

I meant crash of 2007 and 2008. there was no crash in 2018. Grendel was saying wages were lower than 10 years ago. Which is true in a lot of countries in the world because we have yet to recover properly.

 

[martcov]

Try again. It was nothing to do with this.

Germany came within 0.1% of being in recession. This is growth of the economy.....or a lack of it.

The Chinese export market is very important to Germany... demand slowed in 2018 which had a negative effect, as did the diesel scandal.

 

[Astute]

I meant crash of 2007 and 2008. there was no crash in 2018. Grendel was saying wages were lower than 10 years ago. Which is true in a lot of countries in the world because we have yet to recover properly.

Yeah. 2007 looks like 2018

 

[Astute]

The Independent? An opinion piece by Owen Jones? @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 will explode

And?

This proves what I say. Rubbish anything I say then change the subject when the proif is there. Or just ignore it altogether.

It is like Mart and several others who say what the Mail is like. But when it says something they like they then quote it. That is how stupid it gets on here.

 

[Astute]

The Chinese export market is very important to Germany... demand slowed in 2018 which had a negative effect, as did the diesel scandal.

VW sales had already recovered.

 

[martcov]

Yeah. 2007 looks like 2018

Looks similar to 2008 though....

 

[martcov]

VW sales had already recovered.

German growth also recovering...

 

[martcov]

And?

This proves what I say. Rubbish anything I say then change the subject when the proif is there. Or just ignore it altogether.

It is like Mart and several others who say what the Mail is like. But when it says something they like they then quote it. That is how stupid it gets on here.

The Mail has been known to be right sometimes. Often the truth, or similar, is hidden in the last sentence of a report in small font.

 

[Astute]

The Mail has been known to be right sometimes. Often the truth, or similar, is hidden in the last sentence of a report in small font.

So don't quote it unless you want to?

 

[Sick Boy]

And?

This proves what I say. Rubbish anything I say then change the subject when the proif is there. Or just ignore it altogether.

It is like Mart and several others who say what the Mail is like. But when it says something they like they then quote it. That is how stupid it gets on here.

What are you on about? Please point out where I have rubbished what you have posted??

 

[martcov]

Trump says he's a friend to the U.K. That's a lie | Opinion

 

[martcov]

So don't quote it unless you want to?

No. Quote it when it is right by all means.