Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Whichever way it goes rest assured all the pros will go to the privileged and all the cons to those that actually need help the most.
They need to cut the crap and just explain the pros and cons of each, none of the pantomime.
Expect a cat & dog fight between Theresa May and Michael Gove too. It was only Cameron's intervention that stopped her from tearing him apart last time.
Nobody can think of any pro's to retaining Michael Gove in the EU thoughThey need to make the pros and cons of each a bit clearer.
But what one person believes is a positive - another believes is a negative. Because both leaving AND staying with the new 'special staus' presents us with so many unknown outcomes nobody can tell us the facts either.I agree with Nick, need a list of reasons what we would gain if loose either way.
The Problem I can see is the average man on street will vote to leave as we do not understand the whole picture.
Imigration will be a major factor, we need it but a lot of what we are getting just add to our plight.
For what its worth I also work in the NHS and have done so for the past twenty years. There are many people working in the NHS who have come from abroad, but there are also many many NHS workers from the UK.
Its a topic of conversation that has cropped up many times at work and I can in all honesty say I have never heard an overseas worker suggest they would leave based on a 'no' vote.
If you are correct and it would become an issue then as a nation we would have to take the consequences. I personally dont think it would ever come to that as most of the overseas workers I work with dont seem to link xenophobia with a vote to leave Europe.
Successive governments have demonstrated that the 'party in power' doesn't really positively or negatively change the vast majority of people's lives in a particularly major way - so whatever happens...the vast majority are ambivalent to it.Like it or not, it IS all about Sovereignty.
Many Britons are sick to the back teeth of unelected European bureaucrats dictating who and how many enter our country, sick and tired of not being allowed to implement their own laws.
Sick and tired of being subservient to faceless rulers.
Those are the important issues here.
Will you be going with them if they go?The majority of my friends are EU migrants as is my girlfriend and I can assure you that the majority of them would not want to stay.
A positive could be that the 'exodus' would mean loads of what the business leaders would refer to as 'menial jobs' would need filling. There would be no need for a 'living wage' as they would have to pay well to fill the vacancies. That would mean fewer benefits & reduced taxes for us all.Hows it going to work then? If people are voting to leave the EU then those from Europe working here will no longer be able to work here will they? Unless we're keeping the same rules in which case the whole thing is a bit pointless.
A positive could be that the 'exodus' would mean loads of what the business leaders would refer to as 'menial jobs' would need filling. There would be no need for a 'living wage' as they would have to pay well to fill the vacancies. That would mean fewer benefits & reduced taxes for us all.
Sounds like a plan to me!
...onwards & upwards PUSB
Whichever way it goes rest assured all the pros will go to the privileged and all the cons to those that actually need help the most.
Sounds like a lot of hot air, spin and a mishmosh of buzz words.
Anyone can say Britain is/was great and we can make it great again, can't they? It's just words. Means nothing.
Less of a patriot?
A soldier severing his country?
I wouldn't have thought so.
Would you?
Will you be going with them if they go?
...onwards & upwards PUSB
There would be a minimum of two years of negotiations to work out what the UK's future relationship with the EU would look like.
Broadly we know what staying in the EU means. .
Successive governments have demonstrated that the 'party in power' doesn't really positively or negatively change the vast majority of people's lives in a particularly major way - so whatever happens...
It always makes me laugh around election times, or more particularly local election times when people are pulling their hair out because of the low turnout who can't seem to grasp this fact. People don't vote for two very simple reasons: the vast majority of people in this country live very comfortable lives and no government red or blue really make any attempt to interfere. We're free to do pretty much whatever we want in this country within reason, which is a very good thing obviously, so nobody really cares who is in government.
A vote to stay means you accept that our democratically elected government has no control over who and how many EU citizens (soon to include Turkey's 80million muslims) enter our country.
A stay vote means that our business will continue to be prevented from trading freely with markets outside the EU.
Because clearly at the moment we only trade with EU countries :facepalm:
Can you tell us what trade agreements are in place should we leave the EU. We may lose our trade rights in Europe so I assume something better has been put in place to replace them?
Bearing in mind our EU imports are greater than EU exports, why on earth do you imagine we'd lose our trade rights in Europe?
We are currently over ruled in most aspects by un-elected officials we can neither vote for or remove. Stay in at your peril. We would lose further powers to Brussels become an integrated society with even more immigration forced upon us. The way you live, have been brought up and the society you recognize will change rapidly. Is that what you want?
the belief that we are in the world's largest single market is false.
have a good look at how Europe is doing. It's been going down the toilet for years. a failed currency, mass unemployment and don't even get me started on Greece!
We are a sovereign nation able to trade where we want with who we want when we leave. we have the world's 5th largest economy set to overtake Germany before 2030.
We have more foreign ability to trade with others more than any other European country put together. We can trade freely with the commonwealth again.
the notion that tariffs would be implemented on us works both ways and we buy more from them than we sell them. We have one of the biggest markets in the world.
I want to leave this mess they call European union and form our own trade deals and be able to vote in or out our democratic leaders.
I don't want a common army, i don't want my sausages messed with.
After we are out we will still trade with Europe vastly on better terms we have control over, we will still travel freely around European borders with a passport in your pocket! you will still be able to work overseas if you choose to that has never changed before or after the EU. I know I've done it.
Stronger in Europe is a myth. Safer in Europe is an outright lie! Germany want to have their military back in action in a controlled Europe too. NATO is the reason we are safe. There are only 3 power bases in Europe and that is France, Germany and the UK. The rest may as well lie down and be dead. I can't imagine what will happen when the Turks receive their passports to Europe. You think the migrant crisis is bad now? We are losing our identity as a nation state. We exit and the others will follow behind. Europe is a failed institution.
You're missing the point. You have no way of know what the situation will be should we leave the EU as it hasn't been agreed yet. Do you really think the likes of France, Germany and the rest of Europe are going to let us cherry pick the things we want to keep and bin those we don't? Of course they won't. It will be a situation where they will say you can have x but to get that you must agree to y.
They need to make the pros and cons of each a bit clearer.
Too many people are turning this into an immigration only debate. My evidence is speaking to brits from all over the UK over here on holiday.
Most seem to think that we vote out of Europe all the 'Eastern European Scroungers' (not realising the other Europeans who contribute to the UK) will be kicked out. I can't imagine their will be an Eurostar train waiting at every station ready to deport people back to Calais, It ain't going to happen. Some kind of deal will be done to keep anyone who wants to stay who are already here.
To be fair a lot of people are still undecided and waiting for more concrete information, as their only dealings with the EU is their once/twice a year escape from the UK weather.
One thing that would change with a no vote would be your duty free allowance and mobile telephone roaming charges - Which kick in soon.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33325031
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