The new signings so far (4 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I'm going to go through the entire league with all signings that required a fee and people can weigh up the average cost of bringing a player to the Championship and also whether our signings are significantly better/worse than the others. Can only do 10 at a time so bear with. Some of these look a little bit off (see Binks) but its the best i can find.

View attachment 40246
View attachment 40247
View attachment 40248
View attachment 40249
View attachment 40250
View attachment 40251
View attachment 40252
View attachment 40253
View attachment 40254
View attachment 40255

Yeah but we always have this discussion with public info. You have to explain why we would be more or less off than anyone else on average otherwise it’s fine.


The screenshot I posted is expenditures vs league position. We are fourth from bottom. If you combined it with last season I’d imagine we’re even worse.

 

---

[SBT]

It's stupid to make a verdict on signings before we've even hit Jan. EMC made this thread look silly on Saturday.

BTA and Binks are the only ones you can attempt to argue are "misses", the others are just far too premature.

It’s equally premature with EMC and BTA, they’ve played almost exactly the same number of minutes. Why deliver a verdict on one and not the other?

 

[TomRad85]

 

[TomRad85]

 

[TomRad85]

Yeah but we always have this discussion with public info. You have to explain why we would be more or less off than anyone else on average otherwise it’s fine.


The screenshot I posted is expenditures vs league position. We are fourth from bottom. If you combined it with last season I’d imagine we’re even worse.

Well yes, that's why we got rid of the manager. Certain players look immediately better for it tbh but we've done that to death and certain people won't accept it so whats the point.

 

[shmmeee]

Well yes, that's why we got rid of the manager. Certain players look immediately better for it tbh but we've done that to death and certain people won't accept it so whats the point.

Yeah we’re arguing about whether this squad is top six or midtable with an average manager I guess.

And because you’ve come over all covcity4life expecting us to pick up a decent amount of points against the bottom four doesn’t negate me saying I think we’ve assembled a midtable squad. (Which a game before Robins sacking was higher than it’s been since (13th) just saying).

I think Robins would have had to add to this deck to get it to top six, I think Lampard will too.

 

[TomRad85]

Yeah we’re arguing about whether this squad is top six or midtable with an average manager I guess.

And because you’ve come over all covcity4life expecting us to pick up a decent amount of points against the bottom four doesn’t negate me saying I think we’ve assembled a midtable squad. (Which a game before Robins sacking was higher than it’s been since (13th) just saying).

I think Robins would have had to add to this deck to get it to top six, I think Lampard will too.

I'm not going to go into all this as i think you've taken us off track. We're talking about the players as individuals, the ones we've paid money for and you suggesting they were overpriced. When you look at the players as individuals vs other players that have come into the league for a fee have we been massively ripped off vs other clubs? I've posted it all above and people can come to their own conclusions.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Let’s be honest, and I know there’s a significant degree of irony considering my comments thus far about EMC, but it is way too early to write anyone off or class them as a success yet.

last year simms was the worst striker in the league, then the best and off to Bournemouth or Brentford for £20m, and now he’s back to being shipped off

 

[TomRad85]

Let’s be honest, and I know there’s a significant degree of irony considering my comments thus far about EMC, but it is way too early to write anyone off or class them as a success yet.

last year simms was the worst striker in the league, then the best and off to Bournemouth or Brentford for £20m, and now he’s back to being shipped off

Simms is probably the weirdest player we own. Just want to prod him with a stick and say "be good again."

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Simms is probably the weirdest player we own. Just want to prod him with a stick and say "be good again."

I think give him a consecutive run of games he will be much better. Problem is this season he’s been chopped and changed so many times.

I still stick by when Wright is back we play Wright Simms Sakamoto

 

[skybluecam]

It’s equally premature with EMC and BTA, they’ve played almost exactly the same number of minutes. Why deliver a verdict on one and not the other?

BTA is looking like a miss because he doesn't have a place in the squad. Right now he might even be 4th choice in his favoured position.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm not going to go into all this as i think you've taken us off track. We're talking about the players as individuals, the ones we've paid money for and you suggesting they were overpriced. When you look at the players as individuals vs other players that have come into the league for a fee have we been massively ripped off vs other clubs? I've posted it all above and people can come to their own conclusions.

Yeah. You posted the source data to the aggregate I posted. The one which shows us 4th from bottom in the value league. WTF?

That says we should be 6th with this squad. I disagree and don’t think this is a top six squad as is. You do I assume?

 

[SBT]

BTA is looking like a miss because he doesn't have a place in the squad. Right now he might even be 4th choice in his favoured position.

I thought it was premature to be making these kinds of judgments?

I don’t think EMC is first choice in his favoured position either.

 

[TomRad85]

Yeah. You posted the source data to the aggregate I posted. The one which shows us 4th from bottom in the value league. WTF?

That says we should be 6th with this squad. I disagree and don’t think this is a top six squad as is. You do I assume?

You're arguing something completely different again. Individual players mate, that's what we're talking about. Are the costs of certain individuals that you seem to think are overpriced particularly better/worse than other teams in the league? Above I've pasted all players that cost money that came into The Championship.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

But are they worth £5m a piece? Is Kitching? Are our fringe players worth £2m a time?

Probably, all transfer fees are inflated nowadays. We paid in and around £1 million for another teams fringe striker in L1 (Chaplin).

A winger having 30+ goal contributions is worth £4.25m without a doubt. Rudoni is in a similar boat, he underperformed his numbers and was a standout player in a Championship team. In fact, had we sold COH for £8-10m in Jan there would’ve been a mutiny so clearly we value our players just as highly as other teams.

Kitching, came from one of the best defences in L1 and has Chanpionship experience. Even if that signing doesn’t work out, the logic was strong.

 

[TomRad85]

Probably, all transfer fees are inflated nowadays. We paid in and around £1 million for another teams fringe striker in L1 (Chaplin).

A winger having 30+ goal contributions is worth £4.25m without a doubt. Rudoni is in a similar boat, he underperformed his numbers and was a standout player in a Championship team. In fact, had we sold COH for £8-10m in Jan there would’ve been a mutiny so clearly we value our players just as highly as other teams.

Kitching, came from one of the best defences in L1 and has Chanpionship experience. Even if that signing doesn’t work out, the logic was strong.

Its filtering down. Championship clubs ask big money for their better players these days so when they come shopping in league 1 and lesser known foreign leagues, those teams will want their slice of the pie.
Makes sense, you can't have it both ways.

 

[shmmeee]

Its filtering down. Championship clubs ask big money for their better players these days so when they come shopping in league 1 and lesser known foreign leagues, those teams will want their slice of the pie.
Makes sense, you can't have it both ways.

Then I’m again asking why we appear at the top of the L1 fees lists and the bottom of the total transfer spend value lists.

 

[skybluecam]

I thought it was premature to be making these kinds of judgments?

I don’t think EMC is first choice in his favoured position either.

No, he's second choice. Which is fine, you need 2 players for every position.

You don't need a 4th choice striker when we only play with 1.

 

[TomRad85]

Then I’m again asking why we appear at the top of the L1 fees lists and the bottom of the total transfer spend value lists.

You're completely avoiding what we're talking about, presumably on purpose. The fact we stupidly left ourselves short in a couple of areas has nothing to do with the overall quality of player and using the occasional miss like Liam Kitching as a stick to beat all signings with is strange.
To answer your question I think outside of the defence, looking at the teams in the top 6, we have a top 6 squad, so from that you can assume i think most of our signings are good enough.
We won't get in the top 6 because...
A. As I said, the defence needs surgery.
B. We've given ourselves way too much to do with a truly minging start and we need to give the new manager time to get his ideas across.
On balance I would not swap our squad for teams in and around the top 6 like Watford or Blackburn for example.

If you have a different opinion that's fine, I suppose people are bored of reading this.

 

[SBT]

No, he's second choice. Which is fine, you need 2 players for every position.

You don't need a 4th choice striker when we only play with 1.

And yet he has the same amount of minutes as Ephron!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t rate the guy either, just curious about the double standard.

 

[skybluecam]

And yet he has the same amount of minutes as Ephron!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t rate the guy either, just curious about the double standard.

Because he's played out of position a lot. It's not a double standard, me calling him a miss is less about his ability and more the decision to sign him - that £2.5m would have been better spent on an actual winger to compete with Sakamoto.

 

[TomRad85]

Because he's played out of position a lot. It's not a double standard, me calling him a miss is less about his ability and more the decision to sign him - that £2.5m would have been better spent on an actual winger to compete with Sakamoto.

Another raid on Peterborough for Poku? Turns out those League 1 wingers aren't all that bad if you give them a chance.

 

[Captain Dart]

Because he's played out of position a lot. It's not a double standard, me calling him a miss is less about his ability and more the decision to sign him - that £2.5m would have been better spent on an actual winger to compete with Sakamoto.

That's already been resolved, Raphael is his backup and Fabio has also played there for us. The fact Raphael has been injured is just one of those unfortunate things that has to be endured.

 

[SBT]

Because he's played out of position a lot. It's not a double standard, me calling him a miss is less about his ability and more the decision to sign him - that £2.5m would have been better spent on an actual winger to compete with Sakamoto.

We had no senior striker cover when we signed him - the deal made total sense at the time in isolation.

Mason-Clark has also been played out of position a lot btw. I would have thought that would make you more reluctant, not less, to make a judgment on the player, but always interesting to see which players are afforded patience and which ones are written off.

 

[TomRad85]

That's already been resolved, Raphael is his backup and Fabio has also played there for us. The fact Raphael has been injured is just one of those unfortunate things that has to be endured.

Tbh we know nothing about Raphael and whether he'll even get close to the standard required. He was a punt that cost peanuts.
Needs time in the U21s and no pressure.

 

[SBAndy]

Another raid on Peterborough for Poku? Turns out those League 1 wingers aren't all that bad if you give them a chance.

I did wonder whether we’d maybe signed the wrong winger. Poku seems to be having a lovely old time of it this season and at 23 you’d imagine quite a lot of improvement to come.

 

[TomRad85]

I did wonder whether we’d maybe signed the wrong winger. Poku seems to be having a lovely old time of it this season and at 23 you’d imagine quite a lot of improvement to come.

Quality player. I did check up on him when he just came back to my mind though and he's out for 3 months.

 

[shmmeee]

You're completely avoiding what we're talking about, presumably on purpose. The fact we stupidly left ourselves short in a couple of areas has nothing to do with the overall quality of player and using the occasional miss like Liam Kitching as a stick to beat all signings with is strange.
To answer your question I think outside of the defence, looking at the teams in the top 6, we have a top 6 squad, so from that you can assume i think most of our signings are good enough.
We won't get in the top 6 because...
A. As I said, the defence needs surgery.
B. We've given ourselves way too much to do with a truly minging start and we need to give the new manager time to get his ideas across.
On balance I would not swap our squad for teams in and around the top 6 like Watford or Blackburn for example.

If you have a different opinion that's fine, I suppose people are bored of reading this.

I think we’ve left ourselves short because we’ve overspent. The rumoured big money signings for midfield it seems were contingency if sheaf went more than additions. And some of those we’ve signed are going to need to be replaced. Kitching at the back, probably Torp in the middle, and really we only need two of Simms/Bassette/BTA.

I think the lack of quality in goalkeeper, defence and midfield costs us top six. For £45m that’s poor.

 

[TomRad85]

I think we’ve left ourselves short because we’ve overspent. The rumoured big money signings for midfield it seems were contingency if sheaf went more than additions. And some of those we’ve signed are going to need to be replaced. Kitching at the back, probably Torp in the middle, and really we only need two of Simms/Bassette/BTA.

I think the lack of quality in goalkeeper, defence and midfield costs us top six. For £45m that’s poor.

We're arguing different points though. I think most the players we've signed are good and i very much disagree on Torp, quality player imo.

I'd agree that the Kitching and the BTA money however could have been better spent, most certainly, its a decent chunk of money for the 2 and could certainly have been better used. It is what it is though, its done and players shouldn't be judged as some bulk spend. Individually most of them are decent.

Individually Haji Wright makes up the largest amount of the £45 million and i wouldn't even say he was overpriced. One of the best forwards in the league for me.

 

[skybluecam]

That's already been resolved, Raphael is his backup and Fabio has also played there for us. The fact Raphael has been injured is just one of those unfortunate things that has to be endured.

From all accounts Raphael was nowhere near ready to play regularly in the Championship, injury or not. And Tavares has barely played in the league.

Anyway.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Its filtering down. Championship clubs ask big money for their better players these days so when they come shopping in league 1 and lesser known foreign leagues, those teams will want their slice of the pie.
Makes sense, you can't have it both ways.

Exactly, let’s be honest, the fees we got for Vik and Hamer were inflated by historical standards, particularly as they both had 12 months on their contract.

I feel Vik was still slightly undervalued but given the context of him wanting to leave and his expiring contract, we got a great deal.

Anyway, people just expect to pick up £1m bargains all the time as if they’re easy to pick up. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

Worse than you hoped for but the chances of him being ready for the subs bench before early Jan were always slim in my opinion. I still hope Wilson will be available for at least the bench for the Sheff Weds cup tie.

"Worse than you hope for"

Don't know how you got their idea, don't wish any player to have a worse injury

 

[TomRad85]

Exactly, let’s be honest, the fees we got for Vik and Hamer were inflated by historical standards, particularly as they both had 12 months on their contract.

I feel Vik was still slightly undervalued but given the context of him wanting to leave and his expiring contract, we got a great deal.

Anyway, people just expect to pick up £1m bargains all the time as if they’re easy to pick up. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

Yeh quite. Everyone wants the next Vik and Hamer but its not that easy is it, otherwise everyone would be at it. There's a huge element of luck involved too.

 

[Captain Dart]

"Worse than you hope for"

Don't know how you got their idea, don't wish any player to have a worse injury

You have got the meaning back to front lad, you hoped the injury was less serious than it was so it was worse than you'd hoped for.

 

[blunted]

No, it’s called having patience. It’s an annual occasion where new signings are derided as ‘poor buys’ or ‘not good enough’ to then be subsequently proven wrong later on in the season.

Too many people say ‘I’ve seen enough of ‘x’ player’ what they actually mean is that they can’t shake off their first impressions.

Just look at how positively Bassette is viewed as a striker with 1 goal in 11 (and should have 3-4 easily) compared to say Simms last season over the start of his season.

Agreed, it was a compliment.