The pies and pasty issue - the plot thickens (11 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So if I am sold faulty goods are you saying that I am not allowed a refund from the retailer?

The retailer just back to backs the manufacturers warranty. Your contract is with the retailer. Therefore it's the retailer who has the responsibility with the customer. He knows this, I know this, you know this, anyone who has bought anything ever knows this. Why he's trying to reinvent the wheel is anyone's guess.

 

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[skybluetony176]

So am I right in saying that Sisu are now going to open up a car dealership?

Is that how they are going to fund the new stadium?

No. But next time we lose a home game if you want to complain about the performance of the team you need to address that complaint to ACL apparently

 

[colin101]

The Consumer Rights Act 2015
Quote
Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act are against the retailer – the company that sold you the product – not the manufacturer, and so you must take any claim to the retailer.

What you can claim depends on how much time has passed since you made the purchase. Read on to find out what your rights are in the first 30 days after purchase and beyond.

 

[Captain Dart]

So if I bought a Land Rover and it broke down you are saying that I should contact Land Rover and not the dealership?

If you are deliberately blurring the distinction between a main contract and sub-contracts in respect of a special case that bears little relation to the one being discussed.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wasps aren't going to go bust now or anytime in the future.

They might...

 

[chiefdave]

People that are arguing the retailer is responsible do realise that IEC not CCFC are the retailer here don't they?

People cutting back loses to try and breakeven. Which has a begative effect on the matchday experience of CCFC fans?

Do you really think after what we are charged in rent and matchday fees and after selling our fans the most expensive parking and F&B in the FL that IEC are failing to break even on CCFC matchdays?

What money have they saved by doing this? They still have the staff to serve everything else, there is still the same hot food available on site. If there was a lot of wastage why not just cut the numbers accordingly?

 

[Captain Dart]

They might...

They might go into administration but if they do I'd bet someone would buy the turkey and it would still exist in some form or another at the Ricoh.
The bondholders would be the people who lose most in that situation.

 

[dongonzalos]

People that are arguing the retailer is responsible do realise that IEC not CCFC are the retailer here don't they?

Do you really think after what we are charged in rent and matchday fees and after selling our fans the most expensive parking and F&B in the FL that IEC are failing to break even on CCFC matchdays?

What money have they saved by doing this? They still have the staff to serve everything else, there is still the same hot food available on site. If there was a lot of wastage why not just cut the numbers accordingly?

Dave you are outraged at the concept that a company may have identified a loss making aspect of their business and decided to cut it to stem the loss.
I spent quite a bit of time in the corporate boxes over a few previous years and our party only had drink no one ordered in hot food.
So you are talking a minority that are in boxes in the first place then you are talking only about those in that minority who like hot food.
Their matchday experience has been affected.
If you are outraged and want to complain about this and think ACL or IEC or Compass. Should take a hit in this area so those guys can have their food fair enough.
However on a much larger scale affecting every fan SISU say CCFC must run at breakeven. So now we have a budget which is in the lower half of division 3. This decision has affected the matchday experience of about 16k people. Some now don't attend others still do but don't enjoy their experience as much.
I suggest if you want companies to take a bit of a hit and run at a bit of a loss to improve the matchday experience.
Then you may have bigger fish to fry.

 

[Grendel]

The retailer just back to backs the manufacturers warranty. Your contract is with the retailer. Therefore it's the retailer who has the responsibility with the customer. He knows this, I know this, you know this, anyone who has bought anything ever knows this. Why he's trying to reinvent the wheel is anyone's guess.

Product liability and safety law - GOV.UK

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd bet someone would buy the turkey and it would still exist in some form or another at the Ricoh.

I don't know about that either. Form is that clubs who fold end up reconstituted, and back around their original bases (see Richmond, London Welsh. Orrell are looking for a home I think, although news is a bit wishy-washy to flesh out and really, even I have better things to do today!). So I'd expect a lower level Wasps playing in London, myself (possibly asking for a leg-up from the amateur side).

 

[Captain Dart]

I don't know about that either. Form is that clubs who fold end up reconstituted, and back around their original bases (see Richmond, London Welsh. Orrell are looking for a home I think, although news is a bit wishy-washy to flesh out and really, even I have better things to do today!). So I'd expect a lower level Wasps playing in London, myself (possibly asking for a leg-up from the amateur side).

I don't think it is likely because their value is the Arena lease and the associated businesses.
If they build this eyesore at the Higgs then that only glues them more into the local fabric.

 

[Grendel]

People that are arguing the retailer is responsible do realise that IEC not CCFC are the retailer here don't they?

Do you really think after what we are charged in rent and matchday fees and after selling our fans the most expensive parking and F&B in the FL that IEC are failing to break even on CCFC matchdays?

What money have they saved by doing this? They still have the staff to serve everything else, there is still the same hot food available on site. If there was a lot of wastage why not just cut the numbers accordingly?

I know it's hilarious - they are admitting that this has nothing to do with ccfc but the penny isn't dropping.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don't think it is likely because their value is the Arena lease and the associated businesses.

That doesn't mean you buy it for a Rugby team though.

(Any more than, as it turns out, it was sold solely to a football team...)

And even if it is sold to a Rugby team, doesn't have to be the same one...

We hail the Worcester Ricoh Warriors!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You do realise if you buy a car from a dealer and it breaks down the contract is with the manufacturer and not the retailer?

ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!
Buying a New Car: Your Rights

 

[skybluetony176]

People that are arguing the retailer is responsible do realise that IEC not CCFC are the retailer here don't they?

Absolutely. And if your pie is defective you complain to ACL/IEC not Pukka as Grendull is trying to spin it. The fact that pies aren't for sale is infringing your match day experience. That's been sold to you by the club so the correct course is you take it up with the provider of your match day experience (if you consider it an issue) and they then take it up with ACL/IEC. I don't think anyone has said anything other than that have they?

The club have said it's out of their hands. You can either accept that or question it. If ACL/IEC are contractually obligated to supply hot food options on CCFC match days the club need to come out and say that. If they're not it is a free market economy and you would then be correct to pursue it with ACL/IEC as clearly it is their decision to stop selling food on CCFC match days.

 

[chiefdave]

If you are outraged and want to complain about this and think ACL or IEC or Compass. Should take a hit in this area so those guys can have their food fair enough.

Where have I said they should take a hit? In fact can you explain how they are taking a hit? They are still employing the same staff, they have the same product on sale elsewhere in the ground so are still buying that product in and preparing it. The only possible way they could take a hit is if they are preparing too many and suffering wastage. If that is the case why not just have less available in the corporate areas.

The fact that pies aren't for sale is infringing your match day experience. That's been sold to you by the club so the correct course is you take it up with the provider of your match day experience

Where in this seasons corporate offering do CCFC state that hot food will be available to purchase on the day? Its not a service that was offered by CCFC or sold by CCFC. The same as when you or I buy a match ticket it doesn't say there will be any F&B available. If IEC close all those outlets down as well would that be the clubs fault?

CCFC hire the ground for matchdays, it is not unreasonable to expect a basic level of service is provided to attendees by IEC. And its unlikely to be itemised down to every item, hence why are matchday costs have greatly increased since Wasps takeover of ACL. Everything not specified in the tiniest detail in the contract is being taken advantage of by IEC to increase the charge to CCFC. Its not unreasonable to think this is the same. Hence CCFC saying it is out of control and Wasps offering no comment past saying they haven't breached the terms of the contract.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Without knowing the terms of the contracts we don't know do we. But it is not one single contractual relationship.

There is a contract between ACL/IEC and Otium t/a CCFC. That is a contract for hire of space on match days. Does that contract include the provision or ability to purchase hot food in those hired and staffed areas ? Usually when you hire events space the customer decides on the catering to be provided either as an extra or as part of the rental, or whether there is a cash bar etc or not. If it is not in the contract it is up to the venue as to whether they fund an opportunity for extra income or not. Seems to me that ACL/IEC have taken a look at a non contract item and decided it is no longer worth it and withdrawn it. Bottom line is there seems to be a strict interpretation of the provisions required by the contract going on.

During matchdays for specific hours CCFC have bought the right to manage certain areas, but those areas are provided staffed, is there a list in that contract as to what will be available for sale?.

There is a contract between Otium t/a CCFC and the fans allowed in to those areas. Is there a term, implied or otherwise, that there should be hot food provided in that contract? If so then the club has to put in place the facility to do so. I do not think there is such a term so the club has no liability to do so.

There is as far as I can see no contract implied or otherwise between ACL/IEC and CCFC fans in the lounges for the provision of hot food. That contract only happens when money is handed over for goods made available for sale. There is no obligation in law as to match day experience upon ACL/IEC as far as I can see, only that the venue is safe and available as per contract to CCFC.

What does the contract for room hire say is the key.

ACL have made a statement be it very short "ACL and Coventry City are working to contract. No further comment." or words to that effect. Kind of tells you how things are.

 

[skybluetony176]

Where in this seasons corporate offering do CCFC state that hot food will be available to purchase on the day? Its not a service that was offered by CCFC or sold by CCFC. The same as when you or I buy a match ticket it doesn't say there will be any F&B available. If IEC close all those outlets down as well would that be the clubs fault?

CCFC hire the ground for matchdays, it is not unreasonable to expect a basic level of service is provided to attendees by IEC. And its unlikely to be itemised down to every item, hence why are matchday costs have greatly increased since Wasps takeover of ACL. Everything not specified in the tiniest detail in the contract is being taken advantage of by IEC to increase the charge to CCFC. Its not unreasonable to think this is the same. Hence CCFC saying it is out of control and Wasps offering no comment past saying they haven't breached the terms of the contract.

Never said it is the clubs fault. Just pointed out the correct course of action. So CCFC aren't obligated, ACL/IEC aren't obligated so nobody has cause to complain seems to be what you're saying.

If you expect a certain level of service on a match day you should take it up with whoever sold you that match day ticket. They should then take it up with their service providers.

 

[colin101]

But what about Bovril for the masses ?

 

[Grendel]

ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS!!!
Buying a New Car: Your Rights

That is essentially a load of waffle around the 30 day rule which is also in effect covered

What you need to ask yourself is this - you buy a car from Scotland and take it down to Cornwall where you live and then it develops issues.

Where do you think the customer takes the car - Scotland?

 

[Astute]

That is essentially a load of waffle around the 30 day rule which is also in effect covered

What you need to ask yourself is this - you buy a car from Scotland and take it down to Cornwall where you live and then it develops issues.

Where do you think the customer takes the car - Scotland?

You can never admit when you are wrong can you.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You can never admit when you are wrong can you.

I said a few weeks ago... He'd run over his own mother, then reverse over her to make sure.

 

[skybluetony176]

Product liability and safety law - GOV.UK

What's that got to do with anything? If you found a foreign body in the pie you can't buy it would be relevant but that's not the issue here is it. Keep grasping.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I'd carry on argueing with the prat but I CBA

 

[ricohroar]

That is essentially a load of waffle around the 30 day rule which is also in effect covered

What you need to ask yourself is this - you buy a car from Scotland and take it down to Cornwall where you live and then it develops issues.

Where do you think the customer takes the car - Scotland?

You'd phone them up!

 

[ecky]

Absolutely. And if your pie is defective you complain to ACL/IEC not Pukka as Grendull is trying to spin it. The fact that pies aren't for sale is infringing your match day experience. That's been sold to you by the club so the correct course is you take it up with the provider of your match day experience (if you consider it an issue) and they then take it up with ACL/IEC. I don't think anyone has said anything other than that have they?

The club have said it's out of their hands. You can either accept that or question it. If ACL/IEC are contractually obligated to supply hot food options on CCFC match days the club need to come out and say that. If they're not it is a free market economy and you would then be correct to pursue it with ACL/IEC as clearly it is their decision to stop selling food on CCFC match days.

I think piegate relations are that bad now that we are inevitably not going to be at the Ricoh for much longer

 

[Otis]

I think piegate relations are that bad now that we are inevitably not going to be at the Ricoh for much longer

I've heard the new stadium will indeed by known as the Piegate Arena.

 

[Grendel]

You'd phone them up!

Would you bollocks -you'd go to the local retailer who'd then deal with the issue in consultation with the manufacturer.

 

[skybluetony176]

That is essentially a load of waffle around the 30 day rule which is also in effect covered

What you need to ask yourself is this - you buy a car from Scotland and take it down to Cornwall where you live and then it develops issues.

Where do you think the customer takes the car - Scotland?

So if it's a Toyota and made in Japan would you take it back to Japan? I only ask because a few years ago I had a Vauxhall that was still under manufacturers warranty when it had a call back and I followed the advice from the manufacturer and took it to my local Vauxhall dealership to have a modification done under warranty at no cost to myself. Was that wrong? Should I have driven it to Luton and demanded that Vauxhall did it personally like you suggest? I just want to know as currently I have a Mitsubishi and I don't want to make a fool of myself by taking it to the dealer in Coventry when I should be having it shipped back to Japan under your advice.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

The man is unbelievable. Twilight Zone has nothing on him!

 

[skybluetony176]

Would you bollocks -you'd go to the local retailer who'd then deal with the issue in consultation with the manufacturer.

No different to if you was still living in Scotland then. You would take it to his local dealer and they'd deal with it. That's no different to taking your complaint of no pies on CCFC match days to CCFC then. That's who has sold you your match day experience. Talk about going round in circles. You've just disproved your own argument to win an argument. Why can't you just admit that you don't understand consumer rights instead of this flip flopping, back tracking, changing of tunes, out and out BS merry-go-round that you've insisted on going on instead.

 

[Grendel]

So if it's a Toyota and made in Japan would you take it back to Japan? I only ask because a few years ago I had a Vauxhall that was still under manufacturers warranty when it had a call back and I followed the advice from the manufacturer and took it to my local Vauxhall dealership to have a modification done under warranty at no cost to myself. Was that wrong? Should I have driven it to Luton and demanded that Vauxhall did it personally like you suggest? I just want to know as currently I have a Mitsubishi and I don't want to make a fool of myself by taking it to the dealer in Coventry when I should be having it shipped back to Japan under your advice.

No Tony you contact the retailer who oddly liaises with the NSC in the uk. The NSC in the uk will have a customer service department who allocated you a case number and then the case is dealt with.

 

[skybluetony176]

No Tony you contact the retailer who oddly liaises with the NSC in the uk. The NSC in the uk will have a customer service department who allocated you a case number and then the case is dealt with.

Again that's different to what you just said in another post. You said, and I quote "Would you bollocks -you'd go to the local retailer who'd then deal with the issue in consultation with the manufacturer". I've just agreed with that and I'm apparently still wrong. You've completely lost the plot. Go and have a lie down and have a long hard think about your life. There's a good fellow.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

as currently I have a Mitsubishi

My sympathies.

(unless it's an Evo)

 

[Grendel]

You can never admit when you are wrong can you.

When I am I will but as usual I am not - this is a 30 day rule which had some effect but is dealt with

Ironic anyway as you made a whole day yesterday of throwing a sisu defender line out and after much flannel and waffle had to admit you'd made it up.