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Yorkshire SB

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Yeah just checked it’s 8 games in 40
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I'd also read that wrong, but that's a fairly misleading way of presenting goal scoring stats. You've just picked a period of time, and way of presenting the stats which suits your argument.

Why not just look at his record for what it is;
He was 18/19 and bagged 20 goals in League 1 with us - almost unheard of success for a player of that age and amount of senior football experience
Unsuccessful spell in the championship, although scored a few at Barnsley. At Bolton played a lot out wide, in a side that really struggled
Most recent spell at Blackburn he scored 9 goals 13 starts - showed a lot to have to drop down a level (the last thing he'd have wanted) and then just start firing again
Very prolific at England youth level
 
covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
Si80 said:
21 appearances - 9 goals at Blackburn
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wow i never knew he did that well. Magic of mowbray i guess.

no doubt about it. in league 1 is a sensational striker. given consistent game time i am sure he would score in championship too

as someone said earlier too bad we dont seem to have maddison money to use.
 
Y

Yorkshire SB

Well-Known Member
Specs WT-R75 said:
He has played 61 games at L1 level and scored 29 goals... however in his 54 games at Championship level he has only scored 7.
For me that is not a striker that is worth 3m... at least not upfront. With lots of add-ons maybe the whole package could be worth 3m but upfront we are talking similar numbers to Marc McNulty... which puts him out of our price range anyway!
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McNulty has never scored prolifically at L1 level though, he's done it in league 2. Additionally he's 4 and half years older.

If you said a 1 in 2 championship striker was worth £15 million in the current market? At 21 years old, Armstrong is definitely worth £3 million, purely on risk alone. Clubs are playing £1-2 million for completely unproven players from abroad

There's an argument that the buying club would probably want security in regards to performance related add ons, but then I think you'd be looking at a slightly smaller up-front cost with add ons that could take the deal beyond £3 million
 
S

Specs WT-R75

Well-Known Member
Yorkshire SB said:
McNulty has never scored prolifically at L1 level though, he's done it in league 2. Additionally he's 4 and half years older.

If you said a 1 in 2 championship striker was worth £15 million in the current market? At 21 years old, Armstrong is definitely worth £3 million, purely on risk alone. Clubs are playing £1-2 million for completely unproven players from abroad

There's an argument that the buying club would probably want security in regards to performance related add ons, but then I think you'd be looking at a slightly smaller up-front cost with add ons that could take the deal beyond £3 million
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That's a fair comment. Obviously Newcastle will just take the highest offer - that Tony's Blackburn haven't immediately snapped him up following last seasons promotion probably gives you all the information that you need here though. Would I have him back at Cov - in a heart-beat - but I expect a Championship club will eventually take a punt...
 
Esoterica

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
Armstrong is something of a niche player - will score goals in teams playing well but doesn't have the attributes for me to influence a game that is going against a team. Ponticelli will be the same unless he significantly develops his all round game. Modern managers see that type of player as a luxury because they dictate a certain style to be played and end up using players like that as a sub or a wide option with 25 minutes to go when chasing a game, hoping that they bury a half chance.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
covcity4life said:
wow i never knew he did that well. Magic of mowbray i guess.

no doubt about it. in league 1 is a sensational striker. given consistent game time i am sure he would score in championship too

as someone said earlier too bad we dont seem to have maddison money to use.
Click to expand...

He scored one in his last 14 for us and failed to score in his last 7 for Blackburn.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Yorkshire SB said:
I'd also read that wrong, but that's a fairly misleading way of presenting goal scoring stats. You've just picked a period of time, and way of presenting the stats which suits your argument.

Why not just look at his record for what it is;
He was 18/19 and bagged 20 goals in League 1 with us - almost unheard of success for a player of that age and amount of senior football experience
Unsuccessful spell in the championship, although scored a few at Barnsley. At Bolton played a lot out wide, in a side that really struggled
Most recent spell at Blackburn he scored 9 goals 13 starts - showed a lot to have to drop down a level (the last thing he'd have wanted) and then just start firing again
Very prolific at England youth level
Click to expand...

His form at Blackburn last season would have seen him equal with Dack over a whole season. As you say someone is being very selective in the narrow window they’re choosing to try and make a point, so they’re not really making a point at all. Prior to that narrow window he scored 17 goals for us in the league IIRC and you have to look at the full picture if you want full perspective. At league one he’s more than a decent striker.
 
ceetee

ceetee

Well-Known Member
People always choose stats that support their argument; it's a fact of life.
You could argue that Armstrong took the league, and us TBF, by surprise. After Xmas he faded. Was he tired, or was he found out?
Either way I still feel he is unproven, but worth a punt, although not at £3M.
As Grendel says, the teams who would want him can't afford him
 
Y

Yorkshire SB

Well-Known Member
ceetee said:
People always choose stats that support their argument; it's a fact of life.
You could argue that Armstrong took the league, and us TBF, by surprise. After Xmas he faded. Was he tired, or was he found out?
Either way I still feel he is unproven, but worth a punt, although not at £3M.
As Grendel says, the teams who would want him can't afford him
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People do, however if they're deliberately misleading and show blatant bias, people will always criticise that argument.
You could also argue that, or you could argue that he's far too good for L1 level (as he's proven on two occasions, statistically), and as the team performed dreadfully after NY, Armstrong's goal dried up. Is that all down to Armstrong, or others within that team? Maddison was poor, Kent's loan ending, Stephen Hunt playing.
He's unproven as a goalscorer in the championship, but if he goes there and gets 15 goals over a 46 game season, well within his reach - his value is upwards of £6 million.
If he was our player and we accepted less than £3 million there would be uproar - people are suggesting Bayliss is worth £4 million, and his credentials don't stack up vs. Armstrong.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Yorkshire SB said:
People do, however if they're deliberately misleading and show blatant bias, people will always criticise that argument.
You could also argue that, or you could argue that he's far too good for L1 level (as he's proven on two occasions, statistically), and as the team performed dreadfully after NY, Armstrong's goal dried up. Is that all down to Armstrong, or others within that team? Maddison was poor, Kent's loan ending, Stephen Hunt playing.
He's unproven as a goalscorer in the championship, but if he goes there and gets 15 goals over a 46 game season, well within his reach - his value is upwards of £6 million.
If he was our player and we accepted less than £3 million there would be uproar - people are suggesting Bayliss is worth £4 million, and his credentials don't stack up vs. Armstrong.
Click to expand...
The problem is that Armstrong is not just unproven at a higher level because he's not played there, he has and hasn't impressed yet.
 
ceetee

ceetee

Well-Known Member
All these are valid comments but it remains my opinion that a lot of L1 teams may like him but can't or won't pay £3M.
He might come good in a good Championship side but at that level £3M is a gamble for the poorer C. sides who might need him the most.
I agree though , that if he did succeed at that level, he would be worth more.
 
better days

better days

Well-Known Member
ceetee said:
All these are valid comments but it remains my opinion that a lot of L1 teams may like him but can't or won't pay £3M.
He might come good in a good Championship side but at that level £3M is a gamble for the poorer C. sides who might need him the most.
I agree though , that if he did succeed at that level, he would be worth more.
Click to expand...
Difficult to see how most L1 clubs could afford to pay £3m under SCMP financial fair play rules
 
Gibbo

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
the rumpo kid said:
Armstrong madison Kent and lamires were like the museteers at the start of that season , that day down at the new den no one could get close to them the passing was so quick and neat.
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I don't think Kent played in that game - O'Brien did and scored
 
Gibbo

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Greggs said:
Keeper, Centre-half, Striker? Depends what formation he's going to go with!
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Why a centre half for heaven's sake? We have 4 - three who are good, and one who was our star player in the first part of last season. The way things are going it looks like it will be 3 more midfielders

McNulty replacement
McNulty replacement back up (eggs, basket etc)
O'Brien replacement - altho I suspect as a reserve keeper he is probably the best we can expect. Burge is fine for League 1
 
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