Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What’s pretty infuriating is ‘allied’ air forces could annihilate this 40 mile long column in short order. That we aren’t doing so out of fear of ‘escalation’ is a tragicomedy
USSR invades Ukraine. (84 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
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What’s pretty infuriating is ‘allied’ air forces could annihilate this 40 mile long column in short order. That we aren’t doing so out of fear of ‘escalation’ is a tragicomedy
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
The only way this stops is when someone in the Russian Military or the FSS stops Putin......whether thats by a silent coup, arrest, polonium, bullet or even an ice-pick......just get the fuck on with it please....
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
They couldn’t could they as it would be an escalation and could cause the next world war or worse
However!!!!!!! The consequence is the destruction of Ukraine and deaths of thousands of civilians or the surrender of Ukraine to Russia
It’s not a matter of we can’t it’s a matter of weighing up the massive pros and cons
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
As an aside... when I was very young and was told Trostsky was murdered in Central America with an ice pick, I thought it was some super exotic Soviet way of the perfect crime. Hammer him in the head with the pick, let it melt away...
duffer
Well-Known Member
I know - but if that happens it becomes Russia v NATO. Putin would see every country in NATO as a legitimate target and you really are on the way to WW3.
Even though the West would almost certainly win the conventional war (albeit with massive loss of life), in the nuclear war that the loser probably triggers, no one wins. I hate it, but I can see the logic of why we can't get involved directly in a military sense.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
We aren’t the ones driving a 40 mile column of tanks, artillery and armaments to a capital city. Putin does what he wants and not a bullet is fired on Ukraine’s behalf.
‘We don’t want to escalate’ is a bit after the horse has bolted
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Even if found guilty of war crimes?
There's seemingly no doubt that war crimes have been committed.
But if you escalate and WW3 starts, how many more war crimes will there be?
That's the balancing act. I don't think there's a right answer about what to do.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I agree
I agree.
I am certainly not saying we just 'let Putin get on with it' like a certain poster.
But I think we are probably doing all we can right now without starting WW3.
The Russian economy is absolutely fucked. Their supply is being crippled (Maersk have just announced to shipments to/from Russia).
Ukraine is now being supplied military tech much superior to Russia's. At the moment it's mostly defensive arms, eventually they will start receiving more deadly and more offensive arms.
Russia may eventually take Kiev and other major cities but for how long? I don't think they can 'win' this war.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Infuriating we aren’t doing more to help. Talk of escalation when a democratic country is about to be levelled by a madman is insane. Didn’t we learn this lesson with Hitler “oh it’s just Poland, let him have it”?
He might well be nuts enough to pull the trigger on nukes, but there’s no end game other than allowing him free reign over the East that doesn’t end that way in that case and better to try and end him sooner rather than later.
I hope there’s a crap ton of secret ops we aren’t privy to because I genuinely feel ashamed to be sat back watching Ukrainians lose life and home while we pay ourselves on the back for stopping them play in the World Cup. And where’s the unified plan to get off Russian gas from the West? It’s been the elephant in the room for decades, time to grasp the nettle and remove that dependency.
He might well be nuts enough to pull the trigger on nukes, but there’s no end game other than allowing him free reign over the East that doesn’t end that way in that case and better to try and end him sooner rather than later.
I hope there’s a crap ton of secret ops we aren’t privy to because I genuinely feel ashamed to be sat back watching Ukrainians lose life and home while we pay ourselves on the back for stopping them play in the World Cup. And where’s the unified plan to get off Russian gas from the West? It’s been the elephant in the room for decades, time to grasp the nettle and remove that dependency.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Hard to disagree with either of you. I am in the Czech Republic now and am seriously contemplating going over to help, even if that is just to help refugees get out. This whole thing is really not sitting right with me at all.
Putin's threats of nuclear action is almost certainly working to deter other countries from getting involved. My question is, does NATO in general have the ability to swat them from the sky if they do?
I do think there are only messy outcomes at this point, but if Putin isn't stopped then we could look back on this one day and wonder why we didn't stop him at this moment.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Worth pointing out that a slight U turn has been made since they sent Raab out this morning to spout this nonsense but it begs the question why send Raab out this morning to spout this nonsense. Who exactly are they looking for approval from before U turning within hours. Cometh the hour cometh the man. You wanted the job Boris, do it.
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skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
I saw that, too. I was astounded by his delusion.
From what I have read - not really.
It seems the US' nuclear defence missiles are capable of intercepting 'small scale' nuclear attacks from the likes of North Korea, but are not capable of intercepting more advanced nuclear missiles, that Russia likely has.
Even the smaller scale ones only have a 50% interception success rate in testing exercises.
I'll see if I can find the article again, it was quite interesting.
Embarrassing really. The thing is Johnson knew he was off to Poland who are one of the countries bearing the brunt of Ukrainian migration. He must’ve known they’d rightly be pushing for us to take our fair share of Ukrainians, how hard would it have been to just say yesterday any Ukrainians fleeing can join any family members (not just immediate) in UK for say, 12 months minimum and we will continue to review policy and speak regularly to Ukraine and EU nations about future requirements.
Thats in addition to also allowing others without family here seeking refuge through other channels
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Wow tough message for johnson. Not sure Raab knows what hypothetical means
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
That is a pretty major u-turn to be fair
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What is?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Partners
tisza
Well-Known Member
Short answer is no. It's a numbers game - enough would get through from both sides for Mutual Assured Destruction.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
From Raab to the imminent statement on the visa rules changes
Think Patel’s just rolling out the above (I don’t get prior sight of announcements by the way
)
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yeah, I thought (despite our best efforts!) anyone could claim asylum, still? being bombed to buggery is surely appropriate as a first stage for assessment, you'd think!
Yeah, agreed, if my understanding is correct I think the current argument/discussion is more around circumventing asylum process for those with family. Looks like the government have finally sorted something a bit more acceptable
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Not sure Raab knows what anything means.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Stop embarrassing yourself with hyperbole Tony. We should be doing more as a nation, we don't yet have the answers and will move with Nato not as the Conservatives or England or the UK, so let's keep the cheap political point scoring to the thread made for it and concentrate this one on what we can and should do to help.
With regards to Ukranians fleeing, I imagine more have family in countries they border with or are nearer to. If Scotland invaded Wales, where do you think most Welsh people would evacuate to? Should we be saying it's not fair that we've taken more than Spain?
With regards to Ukranians fleeing, I imagine more have family in countries they border with or are nearer to. If Scotland invaded Wales, where do you think most Welsh people would evacuate to? Should we be saying it's not fair that we've taken more than Spain?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Priti Patel has really been promoted way over her level of ability hasn't she
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
state of farmer boy
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
It depends how you look at it, is she fit to be a minister, absolutely not, is she on a level with the rest of the cabinet, definitely.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Yeah we live a world where Raab is deputy PM