USSR invades Ukraine. (5 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It depends how you look at it, is she fit

In a weird dominatrix sort of way I suppose

 

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[skybluetony176]

Stop embarrassing yourself with hyperbole Tony. We should be doing more as a nation, we don't yet have the answers and will move with Nato not as the Conservatives or England or the UK, so let's keep the cheap political point scoring to the thread made for it and concentrate this one on what we can and should do to help.

With regards to Ukranians fleeing, I imagine more have family in countries they border with or are nearer to. If Scotland invaded Wales, where do you think most Welsh people would evacuate to? Should we be saying it's not fair that we've taken more than Spain?

You clearly don’t understand the meaning of the word hyperbole given I linked what Raab said in a video link which is so far away from what Boris announced in Poland only hours later it’s on a different continent and so far from what Pritti Patel has just announced in parliament it’s on a different planet. As is what Patel was saying yesterday about it. Presumably the “strongest security advice” has changed.

By the way. A hyperbole would be to write about what if Scotland invaded Wales what should Spain do. On that note Spain, Portugal and Ireland are all further from the Ukrainian border than we are yet they’re not putting limits on anything other than the initial period of time which is still 2 years longer than we’ve offered. Ain’t facts a bitch.

 

[duffer]

Stop embarrassing yourself with hyperbole Tony. We should be doing more as a nation, we don't yet have the answers and will move with Nato not as the Conservatives or England or the UK, so let's keep the cheap political point scoring to the thread made for it and concentrate this one on what we can and should do to help.

With regards to Ukranians fleeing, I imagine more have family in countries they border with or are nearer to. If Scotland invaded Wales, where do you think most Welsh people would evacuate to? Should we be saying it's not fair that we've taken more than Spain?

I think one of the things we could obviously do to help more, is drop the completely unnecessary and patently inhumane barriers to refugees from the Ukrainian war. Like most of our allies have done, in fact.

It's hardly political point scoring to point that out, and I can't see why it shouldn't be highlighted on this thread.

 

[rob9872]

state of farmer boy

Completely rent free

 

[rob9872]

You clearly don’t understand the meaning of the word hyperbole given I linked what Raab said in a video link which is so far away from what Boris announced in Poland only hours later it’s on a different continent and so far from what Pritti Patel has just announced in parliament it’s on a different planet. As is what Patel was saying yesterday about it. Presumably the “strongest security advice” has changed.

By the way. A hyperbole would be to write about what if Scotland invaded Wales what should Spain do. On that note Spain, Portugal and Ireland are all further from the Ukrainian border than we are yet they’re not putting limits on anything other than the initial period of time which is still 2 years longer than we’ve offered. Ain’t facts a bitch.

I understand it perfectly clear. On its own entity your post may be singularly a throw away comment about Raab (who I'd wager is far more intelligent and knowledgeable on the subject than you), but when added to your numerous other posts regarding the govt on this same thread paints a bit more of a picture.

 

[rob9872]

I think one of the things we could obviously do to help more, is drop the completely unnecessary and patently inhumane barriers to refugees from the Ukrainian war. Like most of our allies have done, in fact.

It's hardly political point scoring to point that out, and I can't see why it shouldn't be highlighted on this thread.

You see suggesting we can and should do more is fine. Saying 'Raab knows nothing' among a series of posts is political point scoring. Vast difference and for what it's worth I agree with you on the first line.

 

[RegTheDonk]

I suspect if your house had just been blown up you might struggle to see the nuance

Very true but I'd also understand my mate living up the road not wanting his house blow up too.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Very true but I'd also understand my mate living up the road not wanting his house blow up too.

You might then expect your mate to give you somewhere to stay.

 

[Otis]

Brave!!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Brave!!

Bloody right!!! Russia can’t win this as everything is there for the world to see. The quicker they understand that the better

 

[Otis]

Bloody right!!! Russia can’t win this as everything is there for the world to see. The quicker they understand that the better

The Ukrainian people need to film everything, post everything.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You know what shmmee and others are correct. Bullies only know one way. We’ve tried the non aggressive response maybe the Ukrainian fuck you is what’s left. If this is the chance to Resolve things once and for all we re gonna regret not doing so. I’m not surprised Ukraine citizens are saying if not now when and if not you who? To our and other leaders.
We are all watching the destruction of a modern democracy on our doorsteps. Syria and Yemen are also despicable but this is one we must stop before it escalates further

 

[David O'Day]

Ukraine are talking to China and China have commented on the fact that there are civilian deaths.

t really isn't going as Vlad planned

 

[Frostie]

The Ukrainian people need to film everything, post everything.

On that note...

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

They couldn’t could they as it would be an escalation and could cause the next world war or worse

However!!!!!!! The consequence is the destruction of Ukraine and deaths of thousands of civilians or the surrender of Ukraine to Russia

It’s not a matter of we can’t it’s a matter of weighing up the massive pros and cons

I hope to hell the Western powers send massive military hardware to the other countries at risk right now in preparation to Ukraine eventually being overpowered. I see no alternative . It's right that we do not go into Ukraine and risk a huge European war but beyond that if Putin wishes to inflict this hell on another country I'm afraid we must act.

 

[shmmeee]

I hope to hell the Western powers send massive military hardware to the other countries at risk right now in preparation to Ukraine eventually being overpowered. I see no alternative . It's right that we do not go into Ukraine and risk a huge European war but beyond that if Putin wishes to inflict this hell on another country I'm afraid we must act.

Not meant in an antagonistic way, but why draw the line past Ukraine?

 

[duffer]

You know what shmmee and others are correct. Bullies only know one way. We’ve tried the non aggressive response maybe the Ukrainian fuck you is what’s left. If this is the chance to Resolve things once and for all we re gonna regret not doing so. I’m not surprised Ukraine citizens are saying if not now when and if not you who? To our and other leaders.
We are all watching the destruction of a modern democracy on our doorsteps. Syria and Yemen are also despicable but this is one we must stop before it escalates further

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, but again I think it's worth thinking it through.

Let's say an air strike is launched from a NATO country, that destroys some or all of this convoy.

Now, de facto, Russia is in a shooting war with the whole of NATO. It can't win that war with conventional weapons - are we completely confident that Putin doesn't start firing nukes around? To him now, he'll pitch it as about the survival of Russia.

Let's say he's clever, and he just fires one 'tactical' nuke at the base where the attacks on his military originated. How do we respond?

That's just one scenario of course, there are plenty of other possibilities. However, it's a hideous mess already, I'm not quite sure how we could unravel it militarily without making it even worse.

 

[Otis]

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, but again I think it's worth thinking it through.

Let's say an air strike is launched from a NATO country, that destroys some or all of this convoy.

Now, de facto, Russia is in a shooting war with the whole of NATO. It can't win that war with conventional weapons - are we completely confident that Putin doesn't start firing nukes around? To him now, he'll pitch it as about the survival of Russia.

Let's say he's clever, and he just fires one 'tactical' nuke at the base where the attacks on his military originated. How do we respond?

That's just one scenario of course, there are plenty of other possibilities. However, it's a hideous mess already, I'm not quite sure how we could unravel it militarily without making it even worse.

It's so tough isn't it. I really want us to act, but does that in turn then make things worse. Putin is hardly a reasonable man. Russia is all about strength and power.

Saying that, it is absolutely awful watching the scenes develop before our very eyes in Ukraine and you can't even begin to imagine the fear Ukrainians are feeling right now.

I wish I knew the answer. My own feeling is in-tune with many on here. He somehow needs to be removed from within. Either a coup, or taken out.

I have seen Shooter starring Mark Wahlberg and he was able to take someone out from about 67 miles away, so we need someone like him.

Send Mark Wahlberg.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not meant in an antagonistic way, but why draw the line past Ukraine?

You’re absolutely right

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Not meant in an antagonistic way, but why draw the line past Ukraine?

I did wonder this : why can't NATO possibly send in unmarked ariel tactical fighters to attack specific Russian targets ? Or with modern satellite tracking systems is impossible to do that without Russia knowing to whom specifically the aircraft belong ? I'm being a bit naiive here I know but I just wondered.

 

[xcraigx]

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Good. Starve to dearth. Mutiny and join the Ukrainians.

 

[rob9872]

It's so tough isn't it. I really want us to act, but does that in turn then make things worse. Putin is hardly a reasonable man. Russia is all about strength and power.

Saying that, it is absolutely awful watching the scenes develop before our very eyes in Ukraine and you can't even begin to imagine the fear Ukrainians are feeling right now.

I wish I knew the answer. My own feeling is in-tune with many on here. He somehow needs to be removed from within. Either a coup, or taken out.

I have seen Shooter starring Mark Wahlberg and he was able to take someone out from about 67 miles away, so we need someone like him.

Send Mark Wahlberg.

My biggest concern about cutting off the head of this snake is the dozen or so snakes who would grapple for the top beneath him all equally as bad and all vying to demonstrate their strength. It must have been considered and I wonder if the resistance to remove him is 'better the devil you know' until a better strategy can be found or until peace can be negotiated.

 

[Liquid Gold]

This backs up what I read would be the Ukrainian response.

The Russians are using the old soviet deep strike doctrine which involves sending in the armour to stream forward and take out resistance and then the support would catch up with them to resupply.

The Ukrainians simply lets the tanks roll by and destroyed their supplies leaving them stranded.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, but again I think it's worth thinking it through.

Let's say an air strike is launched from a NATO country, that destroys some or all of this convoy.

Now, de facto, Russia is in a shooting war with the whole of NATO. It can't win that war with conventional weapons - are we completely confident that Putin doesn't start firing nukes around? To him now, he'll pitch it as about the survival of Russia.

Let's say he's clever, and he just fires one 'tactical' nuke at the base where the attacks on his military originated. How do we respond?

That's just one scenario of course, there are plenty of other possibilities. However, it's a hideous mess already, I'm not quite sure how we could unravel it militarily without making it even worse.

There was no alternative but to go to a bloody war with Hitler because the only way to stop him was to overwhelm him through force.

As much as nobody wants it you are not going to appease Putin now that he has gone all in. True retaliation would be a counter invasion-simply here all Ukraine is asking for is help to force them back out.

 

[PVA]

I did wonder this : why can't NATO possibly send in unmarked ariel tactical fighters to attack specific Russian targets ? Or with modern satellite tracking systems is impossible to do that without Russia knowing to whom specifically the aircraft belong ? I'm being a bit naiive here I know but I just wondered.

I suppose the problem is that Russia would know it's not Ukrainian planes, and would probably be able to get a pretty good idea of which country they belong to and who knows how they will retaliate.

Plus the main issue is that NATO is a defensive organisation and as Ukraine is not a NATO member, so it can't just suddenly abandon that and go all World Police. (whether you think NATO should be able to take actions like that is a different argument altogether, but in their current guise they can't).

 

[Liquid Gold]

There was no alternative but to go to a bloody war with Hitler because the only way to stop him was to overwhelm him through force.

As much as nobody wants it you are not going to appease Putin now that he has gone all in. True retaliation would be a counter invasion-simply here all Ukraine is asking for is help to force them back out.

It's an interesting thing to think what would have happened in '39 if Hitler had nukes.

It's where the stupid MAD policy falls down, it only takes 1 madman to come into power and not play by the rules and we're fucked.

 

[PVA]

This backs up what I read would be the Ukrainian response.

The Russians are using the old soviet deep strike doctrine which involves sending in the armour to stream forward and take out resistance and then the support would catch up with them to resupply.

The Ukrainians simply lets the tanks roll by and destroyed their supplies leaving them stranded.

Yes a lot of what they are doing seems very old school.


I saw a good quote earlier which said:

Russia has a large modern army. The problem is the large bit isn't modern and the modern bit isn't large.

 

[chiefdave]

Good. Starve to dearth. Mutiny and join the Ukrainians.

There was some pics being shared around allegedly of rations from captured Russian soldiers that had an expiry date of 2015! I know rations last but it doesn't give the impression of being a well equipped force.

There's obviously propaganda on all sides but if even some of this stuff about running out of fuel, running out of food, getting lost & soldiers not knowing they were going into conflict is true it all starts to look pretty shambolic. The problem is of course we don't know what Putins response will be, he's not exactly the type to just admit it was all a mistake.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, but again I think it's worth thinking it through.

Let's say an air strike is launched from a NATO country, that destroys some or all of this convoy.

Now, de facto, Russia is in a shooting war with the whole of NATO. It can't win that war with conventional weapons - are we completely confident that Putin doesn't start firing nukes around? To him now, he'll pitch it as about the survival of Russia.

Let's say he's clever, and he just fires one 'tactical' nuke at the base where the attacks on his military originated. How do we respond?

That's just one scenario of course, there are plenty of other possibilities. However, it's a hideous mess already, I'm not quite sure how we could unravel it militarily without making it even worse.

I hear you and it’s absolutely double standards regarding Yemen and Syria. Why are Ukraine left to die and be destroyed. Where next? And do we just wait and wait until we can’t wait no more?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I did wonder this : why can't NATO possibly send in unmarked ariel tactical fighters to attack specific Russian targets ? Or with modern satellite tracking systems is impossible to do that without Russia knowing to whom specifically the aircraft belong ? I'm being a bit naiive here I know but I just wondered.

They’d make it up and attack whoever they wanted probably

 

[xcraigx]

Good. Starve to dearth. Mutiny and join the Ukrainians.

The problem is it's happening to the Ukraine public too.



In case anyone had forgotten the Belarussian advance to their borders...

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Just for perspective, an alternative view on NATO expansion. I'm not even for a moment going to suggest that this justifies Putin's actions here or elsewhere, but it is an interesting read...

Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored | Ted Galen Carpenter

It has long been clear that Nato expansion would lead to tragedy. We are now paying the price for the US’s arrogance

www.theguardian.com

It’s nonsense. I appreciate NATO expansion would put Russia on edge, but the cause and effect is not NATO.

The reason the old Eastern Bloc countries joined NATO was to avoid the fate of Ukraine. A country as big as Ukraine is struggling against Russia, what chance does the Baltic states have?

These new NATO states have a right to choose their security policy and the only counterbalance to Russia is NATO with the combined forces of Britain, the EU and the USA. Russia does not have the right to claim dominion of these states.

Post-Cold War, there was a naivety that Russia would be fully integrated in Europe - that is not the case and if it were, NATO would probably be disbanded.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, but again I think it's worth thinking it through.

Let's say an air strike is launched from a NATO country, that destroys some or all of this convoy.

Now, de facto, Russia is in a shooting war with the whole of NATO. It can't win that war with conventional weapons - are we completely confident that Putin doesn't start firing nukes around? To him now, he'll pitch it as about the survival of Russia.

Let's say he's clever, and he just fires one 'tactical' nuke at the base where the attacks on his military originated. How do we respond?

That's just one scenario of course, there are plenty of other possibilities. However, it's a hideous mess already, I'm not quite sure how we could unravel it militarily without making it even worse.

I've often wondered what a "tactical" nuclear weapon is. Sounds like an oxymoron.
Tactical sounds it's quite small and can be threaded through the eye of a needle to kill only military. It sounds almost benign.

Surely what was dropped on Hiroshima is the smallest you can get ? Or is it.

 

[clint van damme]

International Paralympic Committee to meet with pressure to ban Russian athletes

With the Winter Paralympics just three days away, it still remains unclear as to whether Russian athletes will be able to compete amid the ongoing war in Ukraine

www.mirror.co.uk

I see the Russians are saying that if they're thrown out of the paralympics they'll mount a legal challenge, I don't think they've got a leg to stand on.