Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What’s pretty infuriating is ‘allied’ air forces could annihilate this 40 mile long column in short order. That we aren’t doing so out of fear of ‘escalation’ is a tragicomedy
I wonder if part of it is just that Putin doesn't really care about the cost to his own ground forces, as long as he takes his objective - I could certainly believe that. Even so though, you'd have to think that his commanders on the ground wouldn't care for being sitting ducks. Perhaps they're trying to draw out whatever is left of the Ukrainian air force?
Either way, at some point they're going to have to move into the city if they want to take it, presumably. At that point I don't know how much use air superiority will be, I can only guess that it's going to be horrific for both sides.
They couldn’t could they as it would be an escalation and could cause the next world war or worseWhat’s pretty infuriating is ‘allied’ air forces could annihilate this 40 mile long column in short order. That we aren’t doing so out of fear of ‘escalation’ is a tragicomedy
As an aside... when I was very young and was told Trostsky was murdered in Central America with an ice pick, I thought it was some super exotic Soviet way of the perfect crime. Hammer him in the head with the pick, let it melt away...or even an ice-pick
What’s pretty infuriating is ‘allied’ air forces could annihilate this 40 mile long column in short order. That we aren’t doing so out of fear of ‘escalation’ is a tragicomedy
As an aside... when I was very young and was told Trostsky was murdered in Central America with an ice pick, I thought it was some super exotic Soviet way of the perfect crime. Hammer him in the head with the pick, let it melt away...
They couldn’t could they as it would be an escalation and could cause the next world war or worse
However!!!!!!! The consequence is the destruction of Ukraine and deaths of thousands of civilians or the surrender of Ukraine to Russia
It’s not a matter of we can’t it’s a matter of weighing up the massive pros and cons
I know - but if that happens it becomes Russia v NATO. Putin would see every country in NATO as a legitimate target and you really are on the way to WW3.
Even though the West would almost certainly win the conventional war (albeit with massive loss of life), in the nuclear war that the loser probably triggers, no one wins. I hate it, but I can see the logic of why we can't get involved directly in a military sense.
Even if found guilty of war crimes?
There's seemingly no doubt that war crimes have been committed.
But if you escalate and WW3 starts, how many more war crimes will there be?
That's the balancing act. I don't think there's a right answer about what to do.
I agreeWe aren’t the ones driving a 40 mile column of tanks, artillery and armaments to a capital city. Putin does what he wants and not a bullet is fired on Ukraine’s behalf.
‘We don’t want to escalate’ is a bit after the horse has bolted
I suspect if your house had just been blown up you might struggle to see the nuance
We aren’t the ones driving a 40 mile column of tanks, artillery and armaments to a capital city. Putin does what he wants and not a bullet is fired on Ukraine’s behalf.
‘We don’t want to escalate’ is a bit after the horse has bolted
Infuriating we aren’t doing more to help. Talk of escalation when a democratic country is about to be levelled by a madman is insane. Didn’t we learn this lesson with Hitler “oh it’s just Poland, let him have it”?
He might well be nuts enough to pull the trigger on nukes, but there’s no end game other than allowing him free reign over the East that doesn’t end that way in that case and better to try and end him sooner rather than later.
I hope there’s a crap ton of secret ops we aren’t privy to because I genuinely feel ashamed to be sat back watching Ukrainians lose life and home while we pay ourselves on the back for stopping them play in the World Cup. And where’s the unified plan to get off Russian gas from the West? It’s been the elephant in the room for decades, time to grasp the nettle and remove that dependency.
I saw that, too. I was astounded by his delusion.Very angry Russian politician on C4 news tonight. Completely delusion about Ukrainians wanting them there and blaming the Ukrainian government for attacks on civilians, when called out starting going on about Iraq and Afghanistan and basically saying if the West was allowed to invade Iraq and Afghanistan then Russia should be allowed to invade Ukraine. Big red vodka nose too.
Putin's threats of nuclear action is almost certainly working to deter other countries from getting involved. My question is, does NATO in general have the ability to swat them from the sky if they do?
Worth pointing out that a slight U turn has been made since they sent Raab out this morning to spout this nonsense but it begs the question why send Raab out this morning to spout this nonsense. Who exactly are they looking for approval from before U turning within hours. Cometh the hour cometh the man. You wanted the job Boris, do it.
What is?That is a pretty major u-turn to be fair
PartnersSurprising turn of events here - Hungary says it would support Ukraine immediately joining EU
Putin's threats of nuclear action is almost certainly working to deter other countries from getting involved. My question is, does NATO in general have the ability to swat them from the sky if they do?
What is?
Embarrassing really. The thing is Johnson knew he was off to Poland who are one of the countries bearing the brunt of Ukrainian migration. He must’ve known they’d rightly be pushing for us to take our fair share of Ukrainians, how hard would it have been to just say yesterday any Ukrainians fleeing can join any family members (not just immediate) in UK for say, 12 months minimum and we will continue to review policy and speak regularly to Ukraine and EU nations about future requirements.
Thats in addition to also allowing others without family here seeking refuge through other channels
Yeah, I thought (despite our best efforts!) anyone could claim asylum, still? being bombed to buggery is surely appropriate as a first stage for assessment, you'd think!Embarrassing really. The thing is Johnson knew he was off to Poland who are one of the countries bearing the brunt of Ukrainian migration. He must’ve known they’d rightly be pushing for us to take our fair share of Ukrainians, how hard would it have been to just say yesterday any Ukrainians fleeing can join any family members (not just immediate) in UK for say, 12 months minimum and we will continue to review policy and speak regularly to Ukraine and EU nations about future requirements.
Thats in addition to also allowing others without family here seeking refuge through other channels
Yeah, I thought (despite our best efforts!) anyone could claim asylum, still? being bombed to buggery is surely appropriate as a first stage for assessment, you'd think!
Not sure Raab knows what anything means.Wow tough message for johnson. Not sure Raab knows what hypothetical means
Stop embarrassing yourself with hyperbole Tony. We should be doing more as a nation, we don't yet have the answers and will move with Nato not as the Conservatives or England or the UK, so let's keep the cheap political point scoring to the thread made for it and concentrate this one on what we can and should do to help.
With regards to Ukranians fleeing, I imagine more have family in countries they border with or are nearer to. If Scotland invaded Wales, where do you think most Welsh people would evacuate to? Should we be saying it's not fair that we've taken more than Spain?
Priti Patel has really been promoted way over her level of ability hasn't she
It depends how you look at it, is she fit to be a minister, absolutely not, is she on a level with the rest of the cabinet, definitely.
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