USSR invades Ukraine. (8 Viewers)

[Flying Fokker]

If we got invaded tomorrow and I had three choices:

1) stay here and fight, with my family staying too
2) stay here and fight, pack my family off to another country without me
3) get on the next plane/boat out of here with my family


I'm picking number 3. Without hesitation.

Does that make me a coward? Which option would you choose? I'm not trying to be antagonistic I'm genuinely curious what you think.

So if you had no assets at all? I guess you would be one of the last to pick up arms? I'm of the view that all wars are bad and also that Society is now more questioning of the 'establishment' before people go to war.

This sort of hits on what Russia has at the moment. An army made up of young people who see the army for what it is and do not want to stare down the barrel of a gun any more than the rest of those eligible to be called up.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Its not true then?

I mean blaming Zelensky for doing this in a response to an unprovoked invasion from 3 sides is farcical.

Is he really the leader deserving most of your scrutiny?

 

[Nick]

Stop being so bloody frightened and maybe give twitter and Facebook a rest for a while. No one is coming to replace you, take your job, or your partner, just because you're white.

To be fair, I have seen some videos where wives are very much up for replacing their white husband...

 

[duffer]

They certainly have. They are tough, and they know if they don´t stand together and try to fight then they stand to lose everything. Family, livelihood, country etc. It wouldn´t happen so much in the UK. There are too many cowards and poorly principled people. The former would probably try and hide behind the latter as an excuse too. As western societies have generally got safer, it has bred a fairly soft generation unfortunately.

There is precisely zero evidence for this, it feels dangerously close to the classic 'snowflake generation' argument.

Who knows what would happen in the unlikely scenario you suggest.

There was little appetite for war in 1939, that generation had suffered enough in the previous war, but guess what, people stood up anyway.

And when it was over they voted out their (undeniably brave) wartime leader and built the NHS and the modern welfare system.

It's very important not to equate bravery or patriotism solely with right-wing viewpoints.

 

[Grendel]

I mean blaming Zelensky for doing this in a response to an unprovoked invasion from 3 sides is farcical.

Is he really the leader deserving most of your scrutiny?

I personally would not want to live in a country governed by Putin or Zelensky - neither are what we would describe as democrats are they? I know this offends your sensitivity but men are attempting to escape Ukraine in boots of cars and bribing border control and are being sent back as a directive from the countries leader who passed a law in one day. Conscription according to Amnesity is a breach of human rights so bu definition human rights are being abused

The Western hypocrisy here is off the scale

 

[Grendel]

There is precisely zero evidence for this, it feels dangerously close to the classic 'snowflake generation' argument.

Who knows what would happen in the unlikely scenario you suggest.

There was little appetite for war in 1939, that generation had suffered enough in the previous war, but guess what, people stood up anyway.

And when it was over they voted out their (undeniably brave) wartime leader and built the NHS and the modern welfare system.

It's very important not to equate bravery or patriotism solely with right-wing viewpoints.

They did of course bring back said wartime leader and binned the socialist government who had replaced him at the first opportunity

 

[duffer]

To be fair, I have seen some videos where wives are very much up for replacing their white husband...

Apparently, watching those sort of videos will make you go blind. I asked if I could just do it until I needed glasses.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I mean blaming Zelensky for doing this in a response to an unprovoked invasion from 3 sides is farcical.

Is he really the leader deserving most of your scrutiny?

I'm beginning to think there should be a No-Fly Zone on this forum.

 

[skybluetony176]

The problem is that Western society has decided that the white man is at fault for everything wrong with the world. Why would you want to defend a society that hates you?

Like the anti-woke warriors you mean. The “the national trust are telling us too much history and it’s everything that’s wrong in the world” type. The “the RNLA are picking up people in danger at sea and it’s everything that’s wrong in the world” type. There’s 2 predominantly white organisations that’s everything that’s apparently wrong in world that certain people hate.

 

[duffer]

Lot of hypotheticals in this discussion but Ukraine has shown Russia doesn't have the ground forces to take on bigger & better armed forces as it would face in NATO. So it would be nuclear and people picking up a gun wouldn't make any difference.

Attitudes across Europe & NATO seem to vary depending on how recently the countries had been occupied by a foreign power. Calmer here now in Hungary but people would not put themselves under Russian control again having spent so longer trying to escape it.

For all his bluster Putin has underestimated his ground forces and a conventional attack against NATO atm is way away. if he had crushed Ukraine in a few days then maybe it would be a different conversation/attitude from the Russian perspective.

I get your point entirely, but as any pub bore will tell you, the last successful occupation here was 1066 (edit: and we were still up for the odd scrap).

Of course, there's no need to fight to overcome democracy in Britain now, just remember to bring your cheque book.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They did of course bring back said wartime leader and binned the socialist government who had replaced him at the first opportunity

The NHS and the reformed state education system however were not binned

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I personally would not want to live in a country governed by Putin or Zelensky - neither are what we would describe as democrats are they? I know this offends your sensitivity but men are attempting to escape Ukraine in boots of cars and bribing border control and are being sent back as a directive from the countries leader who passed a law in one day. Conscription according to Amnesity is a breach of human rights so bu definition human rights are being abused

The Western hypocrisy here is off the scale

You have posted elsewhere that the West are cheerleaders as Ukrainians die. You also said let Putin crack on with it and if it’s the price for keeping the wider peace then so be it. Zelensky needs all the men he can get to fight the invasion in part because we refuse to help militarily.

Just leads me to think you just post what you do to be contrary and get a reaction

 

[stupot07]

Can't stand Dan Hodges but he is 100% right



Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[skybluetony176]

Just a quick lesson from history. The battle of Cable Street. When the right turned up there to riot because of the “immigrants” the good people of the East End turned up on mass and fought them side by side with their immigrant neighbours.

That was nationalistic flag shaggers selling nationalism as patriotism fighting the left working class who understood what patriotism is. The same working class who fought on the front line while the Daily Mail and elites were trying to convert the country as far right as they could get it. If there’s any fighting to be done it’s pretty clear who will be doing it again. It will be joe average again while people on the right apologise for the aggressor, like they already have been by blaming NATO etc for allowing free, democratic, sovereign countries to join NATO etc as is their right in a free and just world.

 

[duffer]

You have posted elsewhere that the West are cheerleaders as Ukrainians die. You also said let Putin crack on with it and if it’s the price for keeping the wider peace then so be it. Zelensky needs all the men he can get to fight the invasion in part because we refuse to help militarily.

Just leads me to think you just post what you do to be contrary and get a reaction

That's exactly what he does. My enjoyment of this forum has increased immeasurably since I put him on 'ignore'. There are people who honestly hold different opinions, and there are people who are just on the wind up.

It's a waste of time engaging, it's like the old 'wrestling a pig' thing, you both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it.

I'll leave it there...

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They certainly have. They are tough, and they know if they don´t stand together and try to fight then they stand to lose everything. Family, livelihood, country etc. It wouldn´t happen so much in the UK. There are too many cowards and poorly principled people. The former would probably try and hide behind the latter as an excuse too. As western societies have generally got safer, it has bred a fairly soft generation unfortunately.

I think it would have to happen for that to be confirmed. We probably are a bit 'softer' (which itself is not necessarily a bad thing) but you never know what people will do until push comes to shove. Especially if it puts the people they love at risk, and even more so if they have children. Also remember WWI/II there was conscription, so for many it was forced upon them and even then there were pacifists/conscientious objectors.

Of course I hope we never have to find out.

 

[Sick Boy]

What has ´Lozza Fox´ got to do with any of this?

It’s same sort of nonsense that he tries to push to attack people - he needs to take a look in the mirror.

 

[Marty]

Got the response I expected. Same few people again.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Who would you say is the dominant demographic/gender in the western world?

White middle-aged women.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Got the response I expected. Same few people again.

Pissed my bed and mummy told me off again. She's so predictable.

 

[PVA]

Have you ever seen anyone so hopelessly out of their depth as Liz Truss?

It's embarrassing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's exactly what he does. My enjoyment of this forum has increased immeasurably since I put him on 'ignore'. There are people who honestly hold different opinions, and there are people who are just on the wind up.

It's a waste of time engaging, it's like the old 'wrestling a pig' thing, you both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it.

I'll leave it there...

He is genuinely worth engaging with on certain issues. Strongly agree with him on off field CCFC matters for example. But on others it’s just about provoking a reaction

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Number 2 would be my preference comfortably.

If the number 3s were forced to stay behind, it would probably end up being more of a burden than a help. Ukraine and the UK are not the same in mindset and culture. However, in the moment, you might see a change in attitude if your country and life was at such an existential threat. That´s probably one for the sociologists and psychiatrists.

I'd go 3,2,1.

The only thing that would matter would be my family. What good am I to them dead? Do you think your kids would be happy growing up without their father? Oh, they'd probably be proud that you died fighting but I bet given the choice they'd rather you were alive and had been there to raise them.

Our system is shit. It's run by a load of corrupt, self-serving arseholes out to exploit people like you and me and this would be just another way of doing it. They get all the benefits and do you think they'd be on the front lines fighting? Can you see the likes of Johnson, Gove, Raab, Hancock, JRM, Patel, Dorries at the barricades? Or the likes of Starmer, Sturgeon, Davey etc. or the business leaders/bankers? Of course not. They'll be running for the nearest bunker while telling everyone else to keep fighting. So fuck off am I fighting to save that. Would I want to stop a potentially worse system getting in by helping in some way? Of course I would. Is it worth getting killed for? No. The only things worth dying for are the people I love.

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s same sort of nonsense that he tries to push to attack people - he needs to take a look in the mirror.

King of the snowflakes who loves a bit of “cancel culture” when suits. So long as it’s the “wokerati”. Whoever they are.

 

[skybluetony176]

Got the response I expected. Same few people again.

TBF you melted the moment you said “people who hate you”. I’m really not sure who those people are because unless you’re a pound shop Laurence Fox, Rod Liddell type I don’t hate you. I see them in a minority of white people and I embrace the melting pot of culture and cultures that the UK is. I’d fight for everyone in this country if we were in Ukraines position. It’s your Fox’s and Liddell’s of this world that would be on Russias side as history from WW2 proves. They’re nothing but poor imitations of Mosley and Haw Haw.

 

[clint van damme]

So now we're arguing over who the imaginary baddest mother fucker would be come an imaginary invasion?
This place!

 

[clint van damme]

TBF you melted the moment you said “people who hate you”. I’m really not sure who those people are because unless you’re a pound shop Laurence Fox, Rod Liddell type I don’t hate you. I see them in a minority of white people and I embrace the melting pot of culture and cultures that the UK is. I’d fight for everyone in this country if we were in Ukraines position. It’s your Fox’s and Liddell’s of this world that would be on Russias side as history from WW2 proves. They’re nothing but poor imitations of Mosley and Haw Haw.

Liddle has already nailed his colours to that cross.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So now we're arguing over who the imaginary baddest mother fucker would be come an imaginary invasion?
This place!

Well yes I think Nick would scare the shit out of Putin

 

[duffer]

Got the response I expected. Same few people again.

You're going to get that response because it's so ridiculously easy to show that 'society' doesn't hate white men.

Or have you got some evidence you'd care to share that it does? If so, please share...

 

[clint van damme]

Did anyone hear the Ukranian Olympic martial artist on 5live. Absolutely convinced the Russians would be gone in 2 weeks max. I wouldn't argue with him!

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

If we got invaded tomorrow and I had three choices:

1) stay here and fight, with my family staying too
2) stay here and fight, pack my family off to another country without me
3) get on the next plane/boat out of here with my family


I'm picking number 3. Without hesitation.

Does that make me a coward? Which option would you choose? I'm not trying to be antagonistic I'm genuinely curious what you think.

I had this exact conversation with my son last week. I said I’d stay and defend my country. He would too after giving it some thought.

 

[duffer]

He is genuinely worth engaging with on certain issues. Strongly agree with him on off field CCFC matters for example. But on others it’s just about provoking a reaction

Fair play to you for that attitude. For me, he's just not worth the bother.

 

[fernandopartridge]

How would you describe the Ukranian culture and how it differs from the UK culture out of interest?

They've got a much bigger neo nazi scene

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

War is already there. Estonia isn't worth a nuclear holocaust in my view but seemingly people are fine with us having signed the piece of paper that says if Putin invades this tiny Baltic state then it's on.

Americans said the same thing about Britain-it's not our war, not our fight and we don't want our soldiers going to die in a distant land. Soon the choice was taken out of their hands. History will look back on our inaction and condemn it

We’re not going to have a nuclear war with Russia. Even as Putin engages in nuclear blackmail, he isn’t even the only person in Russia with the launch codes and power to end the world.

Threats of nuclear war is bluster on Russia’s part.

There is unlikely to be a scenario where NATO needs to intervene militarily. Russia has made a strategic error and Western experts think Ukraine could somehow win this war.

 

[clint van damme]

They've got a much bigger neo nazi scene

Someone should try a bit of the old denazification