shmmeee
Well-Known Member
So why not add Ukraine to that?
To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
Nato will protect its member states , and Russia I believe know that
So why not add Ukraine to that?
To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
That’s the difference for me but Iran and Russia and others don’t agree. They see it as double standards. But I agree it’s a sovereign nation being bombed to shitI don’t think the Chinese want a world war and the others would follow their lead. I’m not sure how this is like Iraq or Afghanistan, one was a regime change operation this is a democratic European nation asking for support.
I think Putin knows damn well he last five minutes against a nation supported by the likes of the US, I think Ukraine knows this too hence why they’re looking for those reassurances. But I suppose the guy actually running the country also thinks it’s a board game?
Ultimately you see our only obligations as ones to NATO countries because we’ve signed a bit of paper and others see the current dividing lines being drawn up between democracy and authoritarianism.
Bleating about nuclear war is ridiculous as well, the whole point of MAD is it’s basically off the table. Even if Putin was crazy enough to order it you’re betting on the entire chain of command being happy to sign their own death warrants by doing it and we’ve seen before that doesn’t happen.
You’ve let years of watching Russian propaganda dressed up as right wing news rot your brain quite frankly.
Let's be brutally honest , the world will watch a country fall to save global conflict , save lives and money .. that's the reality .. the fact Ukraine aren't a part of nato affords the world that luxury.. thats the uncomfortable truth
It is yesbizarre
Im not sure how scuppering peace talks in a conflict that’s killing thousands and raising fuel and food prices globally achieves those aims.
To be clear , fuel and food were already rising
Ofcourse but let's not make out we weren't on our way to food poverty pre warAnd now they’re rising even more. Do you realise how much food Ukraine supplies to the world?
If they were going to help Ukraine directly they already would have surely ?
I think there’s some confusion here about what is being said. Mostly due to Grendels trolling.
I think we should right now be doing everything short of direct military intervention, including cyber attacks and stronger sanctions as well as sever reductions in Russian energy imports, but I also think if Ukraine negotiates a peace treaty contingent on security assurances we (as in democratic nations not the U.K.) should be willing to support that.
OK I assumed you wanted the world to directly go in and intervene
OK I assumed you wanted the world to directly go in and intervene
OK fair enough , I'm with you no argumentNot right now, no. I think we’ve left it too late to be able to do that. But anything and everything short of that, yes.
His argument has changed in the previous 10 minutes. Now he's more concerned with keeping his weight above 20 stone. Keep the vaccines and food flowing boys.
Let's be honest Russia will take ukraine eventually, there sheer numbers can mean they just throw 100k troops at a time
Bastards
Mariupol deputy mayor says around 1,200 were sheltering inside.
I don’t think I’ve ever argued for direct intervention, this current spat came from me saying the proposed peace talks sounded like a good deal and Grendel saying then I should start my basic training and target practice.
I think there’s some confusion here about what is being said. Mostly due to Grendels trolling.
I think we should right now be doing everything short of direct military intervention, including cyber attacks and stronger sanctions as well as severe reductions in Russian energy imports, but I also think if Ukraine negotiates a peace treaty contingent on security assurances we (as in democratic nations not the U.K.) should be willing to support that.
If you're that bothered, book your flight and fuck off too Ukraine.
So why not add Ukraine to that?
To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
I'd imagine British soldiers are quite uncomfortable with the amount of people happy to see them sent off to die in somebody else's war , whilst they sip latte at Costa
So long as your as critical of those that value Ukraine civilians life below their fellow countrymen because they were unlucky to be born in a different country. Grow upI think that’s unfair
Iced vanilla mocha maybe
and they’d get PTSD if a copy of the guardian wasn’t available
So long as your as critical of those that value Ukraine civilians life below their fellow countrymen because they were unlucky to be both in a different country. Grow up
If you're that bothered, book your flight and fuck off too Ukraine.
You would and do and I would and do. I’m also pretty certain most on here do toowell people only value said lives as long as they can sit at home - as Shmmeee says he’s got skills elsewhere - In other words at home and other less superior beings can do tbe nasty fighting
I’m honest - it’s a real world situation which we have no more part in than legally or morally than other conflicts across the world. We have to care as they are European (so Africans I guess less so)
Nope we are scared as it might impact us. We don’t value Ukraine lives at all in terms of the impact in their country. We certainly wouldn’t if it was the killing fields in Asia
What an arsehole thing to say. Are you 14 or something?
You would and do and I would and do. I’m also pretty certain most on here do too
I think that’s unfair
Iced vanilla mocha maybe
and they’d get PTSD if a copy of the guardian wasn’t available
Do they? I swear they have like 2.2m active personel.They've already committed around 55% of their entire ground forces. That is a huge chunk.
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