USSR invades Ukraine. (2 Viewers)

It’sabatch87

Well-Known Member
I just saw a video on the guardian app of Russians firing on civilians in Kherson.
What sort of human can do that to defenceless people?
Putin needs putting DOWN!!
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Russia say 10k troops have died. If that's the number they are giving you can bet the real number is much higher.

The Soviets lost 14k men in the Afghan war in 10 years.

10k in one month is just crazy and is not sustainable
 
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Russia say 10k troops have died. If that's the number they are giving you can bet the real number is much higher.

The Soviets lost 14k men in the Afghan war in 10 years.

10k in one month is just crazy and is not sustainable
Think they were saying it was a hack.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Russia say 10k troops have died. If that's the number they are giving you can bet the real number is much higher.

The Soviets lost 14k men in the Afghan war in 10 years.

10k in one month is just crazy and is not sustainable

No death is good. But I'm rooting for Ukraine in this war. The BBC thread is good this morning. I hope Russia grabs Putin by the balls and hands (Edited: hangs!) him. Until then, I think we are all under threat. Ukraine war latest: Putin's back against the wall, says Biden - BBC News
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
I have heard twice that 86% of Russians believe Putin is doing the right thing for Russia - that is some serious shit believing
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
The argument - which I’m not even arguing myself here, nor do you have to agree with it - is that the atomic bombs forced a Japanese surrender, which prevented a much more deadly and protracted conflict.

As horrendous as the atomic bombings were, at least they were done for strategic military reasons, which can’t be said for the Holocaust. The only real strategy there was to eradicate a race of people.
Nagasaki wasn't in the least strategic.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t Nagasaki the target because it was relatively untouched from previous bombing and the US wanted to demonstrate beyond doubt the power of a single nuclear bomb to Japan and also themselves.
It wasn't the intended target.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I have heard twice that 86% of Russians believe Putin is doing the right thing for Russia - that is some serious shit believing
On the Nazi thing, I heard (not sure how true it is), that Russian soldiers are writing "onwards to Poland" on their rifles.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
On the Nazi thing, I heard (not sure how true it is), that Russian soldiers are writing "onwards to Poland" on their rifles.
I worry about what happens when every Ukrainian town/ city has been given the Mariupol treatment.

I think if the most westerly cities are completely flattened and there is an influx of more Russian soldiers from Russia/ belorrus/Crimea then we must assume the worst.
For the life of me I cannot envisage a point at which Putin says to himself "job done"
 

AOM

Well-Known Member
I have heard twice that 86% of Russians believe Putin is doing the right thing for Russia - that is some serious shit believing

They're probably oblivious to the war crimes and atrocities going on at the moment. Being told they're the good guys.

You'd think you'd have some doubts though when all other news sources are banned and you only access information from the one side?
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
I worry about what happens when every Ukrainian town/ city has been given the Mariupol treatment.

I think if the most westerly cities are completely flattened and there is an influx of more Russian soldiers from Russia/ belorrus/Crimea then we must assume the worst.
For the life of me I cannot envisage a point at which Putin says to himself "job done"

They don't look remotely capable of reaching Western Ukraine at the moment.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I have heard twice that 86% of Russians believe Putin is doing the right thing for Russia - that is some serious shit believing

Bit hard to get reliable data when you get carted off to the gulag unless you say you support the war. The polls is seen were basically worthless, not just sampling bias but the sort of leading questions that would get thrown out by any respectable pollster.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Bit hard to get reliable data when you get carted off to the gulag unless you say you support the war. The polls is seen were basically worthless, not just sampling bias but the sort of leading questions that would get thrown out by any respectable pollster.
I saw an interview with a pollster a couple of weeks ago who basically said at the best of times you ignore any polling done in Russia as its all state run and is completely meaningless.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
I worry about what happens when every Ukrainian town/ city has been given the Mariupol treatment.

I think if the most westerly cities are completely flattened and there is an influx of more Russian soldiers from Russia/ belorrus/Crimea then we must assume the worst.
For the life of me I cannot envisage a point at which Putin says to himself "job done"

I'm just hoping the supply lines are cut at some time and that another state may fancy a stab at regaining lost territory back from Russia. Quite fanciful but there must be a point where supplies dry up and an adversary takes advantage of this.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
They're probably oblivious to the war crimes and atrocities going on at the moment. Being told they're the good guys.

You'd think you'd have some doubts though when all other news sources are banned and you only access information from the one side?

I suspect many older Russians are entirely used to only having 'approved' news, so it may take a while to work its way through.

However there's no disguising the shortages in the shops, and even worse, no hiding the dead bodies or the maimed when they start returning home.

Eventually some form of truth will out.

The problem is that even if a large proportion of the population begin to object, who in the Kremlin will actually listen?
 
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Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Reference added: Zelensky says Russia deal would face referendum — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

Mar, 2022 19:20
HomeRussia & FSU

Zelensky says Russia deal would face referendum
Any historic agreements reached during negotiations would have to be approved by all Ukrainians, President Zelensky says

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky © Laurent Van der Stockt for Le Monde / Getty Images
While hinting at progress in talks with Russia, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Monday that any “historic” compromises his negotiators may agree upon will be subject to approval by the entire country in a referendum.
Zelensky was answering a question about Russia’s demands for security guarantees for the two Donbass republics and for recognition of Crimea – the peninsula that Moscow reabsorbed in 2014, which Kiev and the West continue to consider Ukrainian territory.
“I explained to all the negotiating groups: when you talk about all these changes, and they might be historic, we will not go anywhere, we will come to a referendum,” Zelensky told the Ukrainian public broadcaster in an interview.
“The people will have their say and give their answers to some kind of compromises or another. As to what they will be, that is a matter of our conversations between Ukraine and Russia,” the president added.


Earlier in the day, Russia rejected Zelensky’s offer of a direct meeting with President Vladimir Putin, saying the talks had made “no significant progress.”
“For us to speak of a meeting between the two presidents, homework has to be done. Talks have to be held and their results agreed upon,”
said Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov.
Russia has also rejected calls for a ceasefire, saying such pauses had been used by Kiev to regroup and launch attacks on its troops.
Monday was the first occasion on which Zelensky had raised the idea of a referendum since Moscow sent troops into Ukraine almost a month ago. Back in December, following a call with French President Emmanuel Macron, he said he would “not rule out a referendum” of all Ukrainians regarding the disputed Donbass republics, Crimea, “and maybe, in general, on halting the war” that has been ongoing in the east of the country since 2014.
Moscow attacked its neighbor in late February, following a seven-year standoff over Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the two republics. German- and French-brokered protocols had been designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.
Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.





Russia responds to Zelensky’s Ukraine referendum proposal
Putting the peace terms up for a popular vote in Ukraine will harm the negotiations, Russia has said


Russia has said that a proposal from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to put the terms of a possible peace deal up for a referendum will only hurt ongoing talks, aimed at ending the conflict between the two countries. Moscow launched a military attack on its neighbor late last month.
“We're convinced that putting [the terms] before the public at this moment can only undermine the negotiations that are already going a lot slower and are less substantial than we want them to be,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Tuesday.
Zelensky has suggested that peace terms of “historical” importance may be the subject of a referendum. “The people will have to respond to certain ... compromises,” he told reporters on Monday, adding that the details were still dependent on talks with Moscow.
The Ukrainian leader has previously proposed various plebiscites that have never come to fruition.
The Russian and Ukrainian delegations held several rounds of talks in Belarus, in person, before eventually switching to discussions via video link, in a bid to speed up the process.

Zelensky reiterated that Kiev was seeking security guarantees from Russia and the West. Moscow, meanwhile, said that it wanted Ukraine to officially become a neutral country, renouncing its bid to join NATO, a US-led military bloc that Russia views as a threat.
Moscow further said it wanted the “demilitarization” and “denazification” of Ukraine, as well as for Kiev to recognize Crimea as a part of Russia, and the republics in Donetsk (DPR) and Lugansk (LPR) as independent states.
Crimea, which was transferred to Kiev's control when both countries were part of the USSR, voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia shortly after the 2014 coup in Kiev, which overthrew an elected government. The Donbass republics broke away from Ukraine the same year, with tacit Russian support.
Moscow attacked Ukraine on February 24, following a seven-year standoff over Kiev’s failure to implement the Minsk peace agreements and Russia’s eventual recognition of the DPR and LPR's independence. The internationally-brokered deals were meant make them autonomous regions within Ukraine.
Kiev says that the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
As I've said in the past, I look for a balanced view on why this is all happening. I have to say I'm pissed off with this article but feel it is worth a read just to see the psyche of some of the people in Europe.

RT.COM a Serbian Gob giving his view on the current war in Ukraine.

The article here gives voice to a nutter's view of Nato. Some startling Juxta positions in the way he describes the will of the people and Nato's reluctance to put troops on the ground.

Concerning; given that we also saw demonstrations in Croatia a couple of weeks ago. Not directly linked but the 'Western mindset' is criticised. Makes me wonder if this conflict in Ukraine is going to last years without a similar Nato intervention.

This war could go on another 8 years like the 2014 conflict has.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ukraine is second act of NATO’s 1999 attack on Yugoslavia – Kusturica
The world is now undergoing a “deconstruction of power” that thought itself supreme 23 years ago, the famous Serbian director tells RT
Ukraine is second act of NATO’s 1999 attack on Yugoslavia – Kusturica
The current conflict over Ukraine is basically the sequel to the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, the celebrated Serbian filmmaker Emir Kusturica told RT on Tuesday, pointing out the continuity of Russophobia and the West’s disdain for international law.

On March 24, 1999, NATO launched its air war against what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The bombing continued for 78 days and ended with a negotiated armistice, allowing UN peacekeepers into the rebel province of Kosovo.

Because Russia was weak and ruled by the “Western oligarchy” propping up President Boris Yeltsin, Serbia was “absolutely alone” in fighting for its freedom, borders and survival, Kusturica told RT from his home in Mecavnik.

This was “when international law was changed to what I call ‘humanitarian’ law,” the filmmaker said, alluding to NATO’s official reasoning that it was trying to stop a humanitarian disaster in Kosovo, and the subsequent doctrine of “responsibility to protect” created to justify the war.

“This war did not just come out of nowhere. This is a continuation of something seeded much earlier,” the director said, referring to the current conflict over Ukraine. Kusturica sees a continuity of Russophobia in the West, which rejected Russia’s offer of partnership after the Cold War.

NATO claimed the bombing brought peace, but the only thing it achieved was to enable the October 2000 color revolution, Kusturica noted. Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic was overthrown in what would become a template for two such revolts in Ukraine, first in 2004 and then in 2014.

Bombing of Serbia was just the first act, now we’re witnessing the second act of the same story.

Serbs aren’t pro-war, they just remember 1999 and understand the causes of the current conflict in Ukraine, Kusturica told RT.

“In a unipolar world, nobody is paying a price for [their] moves,” he pointed out. “Now we’re facing the deconstruction of power around the world, and what matters I think in the end is what kind of weapons you have.”

Back in 1999, Serbia did not have the most modern weapons – Yeltsin blocked the delivery of air defense systems that might have made more of a difference, Kusturica said. Even so, the Serbs managed to shoot down a US “stealth” bomber. They remember NATO’s “humanitarian” bombs even today, he added.

“They never came on the ground, because they know how the Serbian people fight,” Kusturica pointed out.

Surviving among ruins: Life in a Donbass city Ukraine says no longer existsREAD MORE: Surviving among ruins: Life in a Donbass city Ukraine says no longer exists
Yugoslavia ended in 2006, when Montenegro declared independence. The ethnic Albanian provisional government in Kosovo – backed by NATO – did so in 2008, though without recognition from Belgrade. Serbia is now an “island” in a sea of NATO states on almost all sides. Yet it is still a place where not all media are under Western control, and where one can still raise a voice against injustice and censorship, Kusturica said.

He condemned what he described as an “almost incredibly satanic version of cancel culture” that now bans Russian conductors, composers and authors, stopping just short of burning books in city squares like the Nazis used to do.

Russian authors like “Chekhov, Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy are inseparable from what we call European culture,” Kusturica said, arguing the West is now attempting to cut them off, but that the world will “eventually see these pieces coming back together.”

Born in what is today Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kusturica made his first feature film in 1981, going on to direct a series of award-winning features and try his hand at acting, music and writing as well. He resides in an ethnic-themed village in western Serbia, originally built as the set for his 2003 film ‘Life is a Miracle’.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
As I've said in the past, I look for a balanced view on why this is all happening. I have to say I'm pissed off with this article but feel it is worth a read just to see the psyche of some of the people in Europe.

RT.COM a Serbian Gob giving his view on the current war in Ukraine.

The article here gives voice to a nutter's view of Nato. Some startling Juxta positions in the way he describes the will of the people and Nato's reluctance to put troops on the ground.

Concerning; given that we also saw demonstrations in Croatia a couple of weeks ago. Not directly linked but the 'Western mindset' is criticised. Makes me wonder if this conflict in Ukraine is going to last years without a similar Nato intervention.

This war could go on another 8 years like the 2014 conflict has.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ukraine is second act of NATO’s 1999 attack on Yugoslavia – Kusturica
The world is now undergoing a “deconstruction of power” that thought itself supreme 23 years ago, the famous Serbian director tells RT
Ukraine is second act of NATO’s 1999 attack on Yugoslavia – Kusturica
The current conflict over Ukraine is basically the sequel to the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, the celebrated Serbian filmmaker Emir Kusturica told RT on Tuesday, pointing out the continuity of Russophobia and the West’s disdain for international law.

On March 24, 1999, NATO launched its air war against what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The bombing continued for 78 days and ended with a negotiated armistice, allowing UN peacekeepers into the rebel province of Kosovo.

Because Russia was weak and ruled by the “Western oligarchy” propping up President Boris Yeltsin, Serbia was “absolutely alone” in fighting for its freedom, borders and survival, Kusturica told RT from his home in Mecavnik.

This was “when international law was changed to what I call ‘humanitarian’ law,” the filmmaker said, alluding to NATO’s official reasoning that it was trying to stop a humanitarian disaster in Kosovo, and the subsequent doctrine of “responsibility to protect” created to justify the war.

“This war did not just come out of nowhere. This is a continuation of something seeded much earlier,” the director said, referring to the current conflict over Ukraine. Kusturica sees a continuity of Russophobia in the West, which rejected Russia’s offer of partnership after the Cold War.

NATO claimed the bombing brought peace, but the only thing it achieved was to enable the October 2000 color revolution, Kusturica noted. Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic was overthrown in what would become a template for two such revolts in Ukraine, first in 2004 and then in 2014.

Bombing of Serbia was just the first act, now we’re witnessing the second act of the same story.

Serbs aren’t pro-war, they just remember 1999 and understand the causes of the current conflict in Ukraine, Kusturica told RT.

“In a unipolar world, nobody is paying a price for [their] moves,” he pointed out. “Now we’re facing the deconstruction of power around the world, and what matters I think in the end is what kind of weapons you have.”

Back in 1999, Serbia did not have the most modern weapons – Yeltsin blocked the delivery of air defense systems that might have made more of a difference, Kusturica said. Even so, the Serbs managed to shoot down a US “stealth” bomber. They remember NATO’s “humanitarian” bombs even today, he added.

“They never came on the ground, because they know how the Serbian people fight,” Kusturica pointed out.

Surviving among ruins: Life in a Donbass city Ukraine says no longer existsREAD MORE: Surviving among ruins: Life in a Donbass city Ukraine says no longer exists
Yugoslavia ended in 2006, when Montenegro declared independence. The ethnic Albanian provisional government in Kosovo – backed by NATO – did so in 2008, though without recognition from Belgrade. Serbia is now an “island” in a sea of NATO states on almost all sides. Yet it is still a place where not all media are under Western control, and where one can still raise a voice against injustice and censorship, Kusturica said.

He condemned what he described as an “almost incredibly satanic version of cancel culture” that now bans Russian conductors, composers and authors, stopping just short of burning books in city squares like the Nazis used to do.

Russian authors like “Chekhov, Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy are inseparable from what we call European culture,” Kusturica said, arguing the West is now attempting to cut them off, but that the world will “eventually see these pieces coming back together.”

Born in what is today Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kusturica made his first feature film in 1981, going on to direct a series of award-winning features and try his hand at acting, music and writing as well. He resides in an ethnic-themed village in western Serbia, originally built as the set for his 2003 film ‘Life is a Miracle’.
Interesting and thanks for sharing. Went with a charity to Mostar after the war to work with Muslim and Christian youngsters. Powerful moment in my life. Beyond comprehension anyone would see the nato input as an aggressor and probably as Serbia were one of the chief aggressors
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Seen a few bits on Twitter showing apparently Roma people including kids being tied to lampposts in Ukraine by Ukrainian forces. Some other tweets suggest it is Russian speaking people


 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Seen a few bits on Twitter showing apparently Roma people including kids being tied to lampposts in Ukraine by Ukrainian forces. Some other tweets suggest it is Russian speaking people




The Russians would call this Propaganda but we know it is barbaric. Yes, Ukraine has its headcases.

I wonder what the back-story is? I'd have thought a simple 'get out of our town' would have sufficed if they are 'collaborators'. But no, they had to go and create bad press for the cause.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
As I've said in the past, I look for a balanced view on why this is all happening. I have to say I'm pissed off with this article but feel it is worth a read just to see the psyche of some of the people in Europe.

RT.COM a Serbian Gob giving his view on the current war in Ukraine.

The article here gives voice to a nutter's view of Nato. Some startling Juxta positions in the way he describes the will of the people and Nato's reluctance to put troops on the ground.

Concerning; given that we also saw demonstrations in Croatia a couple of weeks ago. Not directly linked but the 'Western mindset' is criticised. Makes me wonder if this conflict in Ukraine is going to last years without a similar Nato intervention.

This war could go on another 8 years like the 2014 conflict has.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ukraine is second act of NATO’s 1999 attack on Yugoslavia – Kusturica
The world is now undergoing a “deconstruction of power” that thought itself supreme 23 years ago, the famous Serbian director tells RT
Ukraine is second act of NATO’s 1999 attack on Yugoslavia – Kusturica
The current conflict over Ukraine is basically the sequel to the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, the celebrated Serbian filmmaker Emir Kusturica told RT on Tuesday, pointing out the continuity of Russophobia and the West’s disdain for international law.

On March 24, 1999, NATO launched its air war against what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. The bombing continued for 78 days and ended with a negotiated armistice, allowing UN peacekeepers into the rebel province of Kosovo.

Because Russia was weak and ruled by the “Western oligarchy” propping up President Boris Yeltsin, Serbia was “absolutely alone” in fighting for its freedom, borders and survival, Kusturica told RT from his home in Mecavnik.

This was “when international law was changed to what I call ‘humanitarian’ law,” the filmmaker said, alluding to NATO’s official reasoning that it was trying to stop a humanitarian disaster in Kosovo, and the subsequent doctrine of “responsibility to protect” created to justify the war.

“This war did not just come out of nowhere. This is a continuation of something seeded much earlier,” the director said, referring to the current conflict over Ukraine. Kusturica sees a continuity of Russophobia in the West, which rejected Russia’s offer of partnership after the Cold War.

NATO claimed the bombing brought peace, but the only thing it achieved was to enable the October 2000 color revolution, Kusturica noted. Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic was overthrown in what would become a template for two such revolts in Ukraine, first in 2004 and then in 2014.

Bombing of Serbia was just the first act, now we’re witnessing the second act of the same story.

Serbs aren’t pro-war, they just remember 1999 and understand the causes of the current conflict in Ukraine, Kusturica told RT.

“In a unipolar world, nobody is paying a price for [their] moves,” he pointed out. “Now we’re facing the deconstruction of power around the world, and what matters I think in the end is what kind of weapons you have.”

Back in 1999, Serbia did not have the most modern weapons – Yeltsin blocked the delivery of air defense systems that might have made more of a difference, Kusturica said. Even so, the Serbs managed to shoot down a US “stealth” bomber. They remember NATO’s “humanitarian” bombs even today, he added.

“They never came on the ground, because they know how the Serbian people fight,” Kusturica pointed out.

Surviving among ruins: Life in a Donbass city Ukraine says no longer existsREAD MORE: Surviving among ruins: Life in a Donbass city Ukraine says no longer exists
Yugoslavia ended in 2006, when Montenegro declared independence. The ethnic Albanian provisional government in Kosovo – backed by NATO – did so in 2008, though without recognition from Belgrade. Serbia is now an “island” in a sea of NATO states on almost all sides. Yet it is still a place where not all media are under Western control, and where one can still raise a voice against injustice and censorship, Kusturica said.

He condemned what he described as an “almost incredibly satanic version of cancel culture” that now bans Russian conductors, composers and authors, stopping just short of burning books in city squares like the Nazis used to do.

Russian authors like “Chekhov, Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy are inseparable from what we call European culture,” Kusturica said, arguing the West is now attempting to cut them off, but that the world will “eventually see these pieces coming back together.”

Born in what is today Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kusturica made his first feature film in 1981, going on to direct a series of award-winning features and try his hand at acting, music and writing as well. He resides in an ethnic-themed village in western Serbia, originally built as the set for his 2003 film ‘Life is a Miracle’.
One of the most telling things I watched was the defence from the nazis was that the holocaust was in self defence. The Bolshevik’s and the Jews were going to attack them so they had to wipe them out. Sounds like a putin we know
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
One of the most telling things I watched was the defence from the nazis was that the holocaust was in self defence. The Bolshevik’s and the Jews were going to attack them so they had to wipe them out. Sounds like a putin we know
Which make me wonder how much closer ww3 is. No peace deal and NATO will likely act.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
It was the secondary target though and both primary and secondary targets were chosen because they were largely unscathed by bombing.
I just don't think that the dropping of any nuclear bomb can ever be called strategic under any circumstances whatsoever. That's just my opinion. It's the final option that ends in suicide and the end of life on Earth for billions. The fact that Putin threatens to use it puts him on a par with Adolf Hitler even at this relatively early stage.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Tsymbaliuk, the UNIAN correspondent in Moscow, has apparently reported General Ershov, the commander of the 6th General Army, has been placed under house arrest due to huge losses in Ukraine.

Listened to a podcast with Lieutenant General Richard Nugee earlier in the week and he spoke about the generals who have been killed in action in Ukraine, his take was that people that far up the chain are only on the front line if things have gone badly wrong.
 

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