USSR invades Ukraine. (11 Viewers)

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Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
So after 90 odd pages on this ,
just remind me why Putin has invaded. I've forgotten. Genuinely.
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A couple of posts above yours there is a YouTube summary of why he did it.
There are suggestions that the West went back on agreements.
Also that the west is very good at telling Putin what they will not do if he invades etc. Rather than playing the big man, the west has rolled over. Whereas the US is normally the playground bully who tells people what will happen if they step out of line.
The fact that Ukraine gave up nuclear arms increased its vulnerability.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
Must be some major mental gymnastics going on with the MAGA clowns now.

Spend the past few years supporting Russia, now Russia's ally kills 3 US soldiers. Bet they're frothing at the mouth to strike back hard. Wonder if the penny will drop...of course it won't.
 
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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Must be some major mental gymnastics going on with the MAGA clowns now.

Spend the past few years supporting Russia, now Russia's ally kills 3 US soldiers. Bet they're frothing at the mouth to strike back hard. Wonder if the penny will drop...of course it won't.
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The MAGA clowns probably think that US soldiers are woke traitors (they do celebrate pride after all) and part of the new world order and see Putin and his allies as MAGA allies so it was fair game. I know it sounds like I’m being flippant but there’s a video going around of MAGA supporters at Trump rallies saying they’d rather live under an invading Putin dictatorship than Biden. It’s like the BUF being pro Nazi in WW2 hoping that the UK would lose so they could be a Nazi Vichy government.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Interesting read

www.newyorker.com

Ukraine’s Democracy in Darkness

With elections postponed and no end to the war with Russia in sight, Volodymyr Zelensky and his political allies are becoming like the officials they once promised to root out: entrenched.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
It's a farce of an article that is being widely panned by Ukranians who, rightly, do not want a Russian telling them what is wrong with Ukraine.

I can see why you find it so interesting though, as it spends more time criticising corruption in Ukraine than it does criticising Russia for invading.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
"Democracy is suspended in Ukraine"

I mean honestly what kind of fucking bullshit is that.

I'm sure it's all because Zelensky is corrupt and nothing to do with the 300,000 Russians in Ukraine trying to destroy it's very existence.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
"Democracy is suspended in Ukraine"

I mean honestly what kind of fucking bullshit is that.

I'm sure it's all because Zelensky is corrupt and nothing to do with the 300,000 Russians in Ukraine trying to destroy it's very existence.
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He is corrupt
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
That's not the point.

That farcical article wants to pin the blame of delayed elections on Ukraine/Zelensky.

It's quite clear what the biggest threat to democracy in Ukraine is and it isn't Zelensky or anyone else in Ukrainian government.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
Corruption being the main reason for delaying an election, rather than the Russian invasion (and a delayed election during a war being a stick to beat Ukraine with) might be a new low for this thread. Fucking hell.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
"Democracy is suspended in Ukraine"

I mean honestly what kind of fucking bullshit is that.

I'm sure it's all because Zelensky is corrupt and nothing to do with the 300,000 Russians in Ukraine trying to destroy it's very existence.
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We didn’t have a GE for 10 years last time the country was in a long protracted war. I’m amazed that anyone seriously expected Ukraine to have a GE under the current circumstances.
 
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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, regardless of what Russia has done.
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It's a bit rich coming from anyone British (or obviously, Russian) these days.

Ukraine, at least, is improving its record on corruption, we're getting worse, and Russia has been bent for so long it's miles beyond a joke.

Plus, it's completely fucking irrelevant, unless you think Russia invaded Ukraine in order to establish a model of rectitude and democracy.
 
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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
duffer said:
It's a bit rich coming from anyone British (or obviously, Russian) these days.

Ukraine, at least, is improving its record on corruption, we're getting worse, and Russia has been bent for so long it's miles beyond a joke.

Plus, it's completely fucking irrelevant, unless you think Russia invaded Ukraine in order to establish a model of rectitude and democracy.
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Where have I compared Ukraine to Russia? I said it's one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, which is most certainly the case and was before Russia invaded.

It's currently a long way away from eliminating corruption to be in the EU, and in reality, I doubt it'll join within the next 20 years at least.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
There is pretty much no historical precedent for a country of Ukraine’s size holding an election while it’s in the middle of an invasion or existential military threat. If we’re going to play the game of quoting opinion polls in lieu of actually knowing what real people on the ground are saying, the vast majority of Ukrainians appear to support delaying the elections until the war is over.
 
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SBT

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Erm...because there's a discussion above about corruption. I don't see what the issue actually is in pointing these things out.
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I think some people sense an implication that Ukraine’s problems with corruption somehow undermine the case for supporting it against the Russian invasion. Is that fair?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Erm...because there's a discussion above about corruption. I don't see what the issue actually is in pointing these things out.
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In context to a suspended GE due to the ongoing Russian invasion. Were you agreeing with the premise that the election was cancelled due to corruption rather than the war? Not sure what else you’re supposed to take from you going straight to corruption.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
I think some people sense an implication that Ukraine’s problems with corruption somehow undermine the case for supporting it against the Russian invasion. Is that fair?
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Which would be really mental if that was your logic for “picking a side”. Given that it’s been invaded by the most corrupt country in Europe. Unless you’re pro corruption of course.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
I think some people sense an implication that Ukraine’s problems with corruption somehow undermine the case for supporting it against the Russian invasion. Is that fair?
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And that corruption is the biggest threat to democracy in Ukraine, not the 300,000 Russian troops in the country trying to wipe them off the map!
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
There is pretty much no historical precedent for a country of Ukraine’s size holding an election while it’s in the middle of an invasion or existential military threat. If we’re going to play the game of quoting opinion polls in lieu of actually knowing what real people on the ground are saying, the vast majority of Ukrainians appear to support delaying the elections until the war is over.
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Well we know your views on opinion polls
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
In context to a suspended GE due to the ongoing Russian invasion. Were you agreeing with the premise that the election was cancelled due to corruption rather than the war? Not sure what else you’re supposed to take from you going straight to corruption.
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No its an observation that it is and aways has been mired in corruption and has an appalling human rights record
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
SBT said:
I think some people sense an implication that Ukraine’s problems with corruption somehow undermine the case for supporting it against the Russian invasion. Is that fair?
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Not really; I have concerns about the prospect of it joining the EU and the high level of corruption.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Not really; I have concerns about the prospect of it joining the EU and the high level of corruption.
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No one mentioned the election anyway - its diversion tactics from posters who seem to turn a blind eye to misogyny, racism, homophobia and corruption when it suits them
 
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