USSR invades Ukraine. (13 Viewers)

[PVA]

A long, but very interesting, read on the early hours and days of the invasion with particular focus on the defence of Kyiv and the incredible stories and bravery of ordinary people taking up arms to defend their country:

The British Army Review 187 – The Battle of Irpin River - CHACR

Based on first-hand interviews, this British Army Review provides soldiers with a valuable insight into the opening chapter of Ukraine's fight for survival.

chacr.org.uk

 

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[Sick Boy]

Literally no one has said that.

I've had various quotes attributed to me that I've never said.

 

[Grendel]

I've had various quotes attributed to me that I've never said.

Indeed

 

[Grendel]

Ah you're right. There's more important things than war crimes to get angry about. Zelensky's facial hair for example.

He didn’t have much facial hair here

Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network of offshore companies, including some that owned expensive London property.

www.occrp.org

 

[Grendel]

That's the the problem with taking such stupid, edgy, views. They always come back to make you look a total clown when you try and defend various other positions totally at odds to other views on other topics.

They are hardly edgy views

 

[PVA]

He didn’t have much facial hair here

Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network of offshore companies, including some that owned expensive London property.

www.occrp.org

Oh no! The horror!

It's only right that Ukraine is wiped off the map and it's population live under the rule of a murderous dictator who thinks they should not exist for such heinous crimes as, *checks notes*, having offshore accounts and buying real estate.

 

[Grendel]

Oh dear

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Oh no! The horror!

It's only right that Ukraine is wiped off the map and it's population live under the rule of a murderous dictator who thinks they should not exist for such heinous crimes as, *checks notes*, having offshore accounts and buying real estate.

That link doesn't work for me.

 

[Sick Boy]

But like Grendel you've asked way more questions of Ukraine than Russia.

Though at least you haven't gone as far as criticising Zelensky's dress sense more than Putin's war crimes like he has.

Not really. On this thread it you express any doubt about Ukraine winning the war, you’re marked down as being pro-Putin.

I put down opinion about it above after yet another opinion that wasn’t mine was credited to me and no one bothered to answer.

 

[PVA]

Not really. On this thread it you express any doubt about Ukraine winning the war, you’re marked down as being pro-Putin.

People get marked down as being pro Putin for repeating Russian propaganda!

 

[PVA]

That link doesn't work for me.

Sorry which link? There was no link in that post!

 

[Otis]

Sorry which link? There was no link in that post!

Ahh, the missing link. At last!!

 

[Grendel]

People get marked down as being pro Putin for repeating Russian propaganda!

No one does that

 

[PVA]

No one does that

Imagine saying this with a straight face. You must have been laughing your tits off as you typed that.

 

[Grendel]

Imagine saying this with a straight face. You must have been laughing your tits off as you typed that.

Putin as I’ve said numerous times is a murdering gangster and his KGB background suits him well.

So what?

 

[duffer]

Probably just worth restating that the loss of a single town after months of fighting and huge numbers of Russian casualties, is hardly the end for Ukraine. They haven't been routed, it seems they've fallen back to an established defensive line (see link below).

Both sides are finding that breaking through well-prepared defensive lines, is difficult and costly.

Why some think this means we should stop supporting Ukraine is baffling to me.

Surely this is exactly the point at which the West needs to show its resolve, assuming we don't want Putin to win. Allowing a sovereign European democracy to fall to an autocratic dictator, seems unthinkable to me.

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

 

[Grendel]

Probably just worth restating that the loss of a single town after months of fighting and huge numbers of Russian casualties, is hardly the end for Ukraine. They haven't been routed, it seems they've fallen back to an established defensive line (see link below).

Both sides are finding that breaking through well-prepared defensive lines, is difficult and costly.

Why some think this means we should stop supporting Ukraine is baffling to me.

Surely this is exactly the point at which the West needs to show its resolve, assuming we don't want Putin to win. Allowing a sovereign European democracy to fall to an autocratic dictator, seems unthinkable to me.

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

What does a victory for Ukraine actually look like?

 

[PVA]

Putin as I’ve said numerous times is a murdering gangster and his KGB background suits him well.

So what?

Ohh the penny must have been so close to dropping when you wrote this.

 

[PVA]

Probably just worth restating that the loss of a single town after months of fighting and huge numbers of Russian casualties, is hardly the end for Ukraine. They haven't been routed, it seems they've fallen back to an established defensive line (see link below).

Both sides are finding that breaking through well-prepared defensive lines, is difficult and costly.

Why some think this means we should stop supporting Ukraine is baffling to me.

Surely this is exactly the point at which the West needs to show its resolve, assuming we don't want Putin to win. Allowing a sovereign European democracy to fall to an autocratic dictator, seems unthinkable to me.

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

Indeed. They lost more men (~20k) in 4 months taking Avdiivka than they did in the entire 10 years of the Soviet-Afghan war.

That is not sustainable, even for Russia.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What does a victory for Ukraine actually look like?

Russia withdrawing from at least the 2022 invasion territory

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[Grendel]

Ohh the penny must have been so close to dropping when you wrote this.

No it’s just a fact. Putin managed to take the country as there was previously a hopeless drunk in charge. No one supports Putin anymore than they do the Chinese regime. This is though an irrelevance.

 

[Grendel]

Russia withdrawing from at least the 2022 invasion territory

Never happening is it?

 

[Grendel]

Indeed. They lost more men (~20k) in 4 months taking Avdiivka than they did in the entire 10 years of the Soviet-Afghan war.

That is not sustainable, even for Russia.

According to a BBC report they have more troops on the ground now than at any time since the war started - so yeah it’s sustainable.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why some think this means we should stop supporting Ukraine is baffling to me.

I think it's more (for most!) questioning whether Western resolve to keep supporting Ukraine will continue.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Never happening is it?

tbf that, along with official recognition that Crimea is their's, would be a 'win' for Russia wouldn't it?

 

[PVA]

According to a BBC report they have more troops on the ground now than at any time since the war started - so yeah it’s sustainable.

Losing 20,000 men in 4 months to take one town is not sustainable.

And they're the same quality as the ones they've replaced are they?

What about equipment?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Never happening is it?

Appears very unlikely without a tilting of the scales. Which gives Putin the message that if he wants to grab land and take countries off the map we won’t stop him.

 

[Grendel]

Losing 20,000 men in 4 months to take one town is not sustainable.

And they're the same quality as the ones they've replaced are they?

What about equipment?

Ah ok so Ukraine victory is in sight

Just a matter of time I guess.

 

[Grendel]

Appears very unlikely without a tilting of the scales. Which gives Putin the message that if he wants to grab land and take countries off the map we won’t stop him.

So you want a war against Russia?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you want a war against Russia?

What an odd take from saying I’d rather Ukraine not be wiped off the map

 

[PVA]

Ah ok so Ukraine victory is in sight

Just a matter of time I guess.

Still haven't learnt to read then.

 

[Grendel]

Still haven't learnt to read then.

You sound deflated - chin up chicken

 

[Grendel]

What an odd take from saying I’d rather Ukraine not be wiped off the map

Well how do you stop the war then? What’s peace look like?

 

[Otis]

What does a victory for Ukraine actually look like?