Victory for the City of Coventry yesterday (2 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

It won't be long until some are calling us to drop sky blue and have a kit based on Wasps'.

 

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[stupot07]

Well at this point its whatever is the cheapest option to move the club forward on the field. I would propose that the owners (for once) are pragmatic s do a deal that is good for the club. Cant see how we can afford to pay rent and fund a stadium.

The only business plan is to get the playing side right. A 20K crowd at an average of £20 will give you £7m in revenue over the season. We know that if they win people will go. Need to get to the Prem league ( now I'm dreaming) but thats a revenue of £70+m without tickets or sponsors . Now I know that revenue is not Profit but even if we pay £2m per year in rent we would still have in excess of £80m to run some sort of club.

The average ticket price is about £10.80 per person (we only got £5.7m in the first season 21k plus cups). We're getting nowhere near the PL until we can access matchday and additional revenues.

We were losing £6-7m per annum treading water in lower midtable I'm the championship.

And £2m per annum rent wtf? I'd rather build a Lego stadium than pay wasps £2m per annum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[letsallsingtogether]

It won't be long until some are calling us to drop sky blue and have a kit based on Wasps'.

Well I believe one of our first ever kits was Black and Red?

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

albatross, you're talking far too much sense for these people.

Although, you're more generous than me re SISU. I don't think I could stomach seeing any kind of deal being made with them.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Reading some of these posts that vilify WASPS, CCC and ACL I cannot but shake my head in total disbelief. Pete Chambers recent comments claiming that Derek Robbins would be spinning in his grave and the responsibilities if the Higgs trust to the club were infantile. I am sure that if Mr Robbins were running our club then we would not have gone through any of this sorry episode. The club would have been run for CCFC not the owners.

When SISU arrived I really was heartened , I though well at least we have some business people in to run the club. Their objective is to unite the Club and ground whilst getting it into the premier league then taking a big profit by selling it on.

Sound governance of the football club would provide massive recurring revenue potential for future owners whilst ensuring Coventry City a sound and secure future.

How naive my initial viewpoint proved to be. All SISU brought was their money and a determination to get the RICOH for nothing as they were the only game in town. CCFC was held hostage as their bargaining chip knowing that most people on this forum have no choice but support them.

So then SISU try to distress ACL (and probably many other businesses in the area with the reduced footfall) , do not invest in the team to move it forward, move the club from Coventry to Northampton, not what you expect from the custodians of our club.

In 2008 they then begin to report the Option to purchase the shares in ACL as resident in Sky Blue Sports and Leisure the holding company that owns OTIUM. So as far back as 2008 SISU believed that they had separated the option to purchase the stadium from the football club. The belief that SISU had done this is beyond debate, that actual legal position of where the option lies has proved to be less clear. The intent was totally clear , the football club would not own ACL (ie the RICOH)


So in 2014 when we have refused to follow them in numbers to Northampton we make a high profile return to Coventry. Probably because they knew that WASPS were looking at the ROCOH. Sign a 4 year deal but still insist they want no long term part of the Ricoh.

So along come WASPs who after trying to build their own home in the south of England want to find a permanent base. They enquire about and empty sports stadium and ask if a deal can be done. The answer is Yes.


So what have WASPS effectively said about about our City.

There is a Fantastic Stadium, there is a fantastic City with a massive population demographic that has shown that it will turn out if there is something to watch. So not only do they pitch up with the appropriate commercial offer but bring a homeless Premiership Rugby side into the city as well. The equivalent of Liverpool or MAN U have looked at our city and said that’s where we want to make our home!

WASPS may be run by rich businessmen with offshore interests but hat they have done is demonstrated continual support for one of the most successful English Rugby Union teams in the professional era.

They have immediately unveiled a local sponsor, Immediately engage with the grass roots game in the area and Invited every club to meet with them. Since the days of Jimmy Hill when did Coventry City ever make such investments?

Are WASPS a business…. Yes but then so are CCFC and CRFC.

I for one will welcome them as they have brought to this city everything they are and will be.

Its not just about the money, its about them and the city of Coventry going forward.

Like Derek Robbins in the past They are showing the city of Coventry what we could be , not what we have become.

This is a brilliant post.

Although I wouldn't go around telling people you used to think SISU were doing a good job. They don't understand shades of grey on here or that opinions change in accordance facts on the ground.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

albatross, you're talking far too much sense for these people.

Well that's whatever standing he had destroyed then.

 

[Grendel]

albatross, you're talking far too much sense for these people.

Although, you're more generous than me re SISU. I don't think I could stomach seeing any kind of deal being made with them.

Are you going to the Fleetwood game Ginnetta - its only a tenner - like the last time you decided to support sisu with some money .

 

[Deleted member 5849]

This is a brilliant post.

Although I wouldn't go around telling people you used to think SISU were doing a good job. They don't understand shades of grey on here or that opinions change in accordance facts on the ground.

I understand that you kept berating people and calling them morons.

You're the worst type of fan tbh, you killed the club... and now you're too guilty about it to accept it so you stick your head in the sand and desperately try to distract attention from yourt own failings. If you had a brain cell, you'd be dangerous.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Are you going to the Fleetwood game Ginnetta - its only a tenner - like the last time you decided to support sisu with some money .

What only a tenner get me 2..

 

[dongonzalos]

It won't be long until some are calling us to drop sky blue and have a kit based on Wasps'.

Or even worse an ex Leicester city kit heaven forbid. You know what these bad Coventry City Fans are like who are now getting the club they deserve?

 

[Grendel]

Or even worse an ex Leicester city kit heaven forbid. You know what these bad Coventry City Fans are like who are now getting the club they deserve?

Ginnetta is a twat - siding with that imbecile does you no favours.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I understand that you kept berating people and calling them morons.

You're the worst type of fan tbh, you killed the club... and now you're too guilty about it to accept it so you stick your head in the sand and desperately try to distract attention from yourt own failings. If you had a brain cell, you'd be dangerous.

Haha if you're going to accuse somebody of name calling then you probably shouldn't do it while deriding them!

I must say I do find it amusing that I'm being made out to be a WUM by the likes of yourself, Grendel, lordsummerisle etc

 

[Sick Boy]

This is a brilliant post.

Although I wouldn't go around telling people you used to think SISU were doing a good job. They don't understand shades of grey on here or that opinions change in accordance facts on the ground.

Probably one of the funniest posts i have read on here.

 

[Sick Boy]

Or even worse an ex Leicester city kit heaven forbid. You know what these bad Coventry City Fans are like who are now getting the club they deserve?

Ginetta and his crew blindly accepted a hedge fund taking the club over and abused those who spoke out against sisu.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ginnetta is a twat - siding with that imbecile does you no favours.

I am siding with nobody. However at some point blaming the council, a charity, a rugby club, compass, ex directors, politicians, Richard Keys, Ray Ranson, Joe Elliot, Gary Hoffman, Haskell, the last 12 managers we had, the players, the pitch and now our own fans gets a bit boring.

 

[Grendel]

Haha if you're going to accuse somebody of name calling then you probably shouldn't do it while deriding them!

I must say I do find it amusing that I'm being made out to be a WUM by the likes of yourself, Grendel, lordsummerisle etc

You are just an idiot. As soon as seppella lowers the ticket prices you crawl up her arse and hurry along to the Ricoh

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I am siding with nobody. However at some point blaming the council, a charity, a rugby club, compass, ex directors, politicians, the last 12 managers we had, the players, the pitch and now our own fans gets a bit boring.

Here Here:claping hands:

 

[Nick]

I am siding with nobody. However at some point blaming the council, a charity, a rugby club, compass, ex directors, politicians, the last 12 managers we had, the players, the pitch and now our own fans gets a bit boring.

So it's only boring unless it's sisu? I get it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well I believe one of our first ever kits was Black and Red?

Re branding wouldn't have happened in Jimmy Hills day

 

[The Lurker]

So it's only boring unless it's sisu? I get it.

Sisu are to blame for our predicament and slow death. Not the fans not the council not a charity, it's sisu and I think many like to wind up posters to deflect the blame. Fans are alienated because of them. The fans should be unite against sisu.

 

[Grendel]

You welcoming Sisu and Ranson?

I would imagine that is always the position he takes to welcome Ranson

 

[dongonzalos]

So it's only boring unless it's sisu? I get it.

SISU? Who are they are they involved in this?
Oh sorry I forgot, they are the people spoken about before the but or however.....

 

[dongonzalos]

I would imagine that is always the position he takes to welcome Ranson

Forgot about Ray Ranson and Hoffman and Joe Elliot cheers Lord will Add them to the list

 

[dongonzalos]

What pisses me if is that Hector gets off scot free in all of this however I am sure his time will come.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I would imagine that is always the position he takes to welcome Ranson

Quick retort there. Wasn't the original comment posted yesterday?

 

[Grendel]

Quick retort there. Wasn't the original comment posted yesterday?

I have always assumed your username was dedicated to him. You on a sofa and here comes Uncle Ray.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Erm... I think you're forgetting one important fact. The council said on August 21st 2014, that time was needed rebuild trust before there could be discussions for ownership.

How much time, exactly, did they give for that trust to be rebuilt before they sold to Wasps? There's a fact, a really, really important one. Who's disregarding it here?

As for SISU's bid after the fact being too little too late, in what sense is that true. Financially it seems that the terms were similar, it's just that Higgs chose to go with Wasps.

And actually, if you want to get the best price for something, generally you make it available to the most bidders possible whether you like them or not, or whether you think they might be interested or not. Remind again when this happened, post return?

As for the lease being broken, indeed. If you can spot anywhere at all where I say that SISU have played any of this well, then show me. But it looks like you're the one casting the current argument in the frame of the past here.

The brutal truth is that the club were not offered the same kind of deal as that offered to Wasps, and that despite the Council's statement on our return there never was any intention to rebuild trust.

There's no attempt to rewrite history by me, almost all of my comments on this relate to what's gone on since the return to the Ricoh. But it seems there's a lot of effort being spent trying to muddy the fact that the council has acted in an entirely underhand manner in all of this.

I think you're investing far too much meaning in the "take time to rebuild trust" statement. To me, that says "no, there is no trust between ACL and SISU at this point and it will be a very long time before there is". It isn't saying "fresh start, we forgive them" as you seem to think. It certainly doesn't say "we are now entering into an exclusivity agreement with SISU". There's no betrayal or contradiction between what they said and the deal they've done with WASPS.

My point about the historic deal that you missed is this: IF they wanted an arrangement where CCFC enjoyed a special right to bid, then they HAD one, didn't they? But THEY wriggled out of it. If SISU didn't want this sort of situation to be possible, they shouldn't have broken the lease that guranteed against it. It's very relevent to the current situation.

As for the late bid for the Higgs share, yes, it was too little-it was based on all sorts of conditions and entering into a long-term working relationship with SISU. Who can't forgive Higgs for not wanting a piece of that after their previous dealings with them?

"If you want the best price for something, you make it available to as many people as possible"-sorry, that still doesn't wash, it smacks of a Skybluecentric viewpoint of this situation being used to justify what you want rather than any grasp of the reality of commericial dealings of this size. It's not a classified ad in the paper for a second hand bike, FFS. You also don't get the best price by desperately asking people to buy something from you.

And you also don't answer the key question of why you would offer something to someone who keeps saying that they aren't interested! Why didn't SISU say "OK we'll match the WASPS offer 100%" as soon as they got whiff of it? As they didn't, who is to blame for this other than them? Of course, they did the opposite-they said they weren't interested and never will be.

 

[duffer]

OK DUFFER. Does it sit comfortably that you could simply move a team..... No it goes against my belief in supporting your home town team , my non attendance at Sixfields, the Trust Marches.

That said the simple WASPS franchise argument does not really hold water, history shows WASPS have been homeless for quite some time they have lost previous owners due to applications being turned down so Lets not kid ourselves that if they could have relocated in the London area without going bust they would have. They have been moving around for 10 or more years. They were never staying in Adams Park so they were always going to move.

SISU chose not to support us in that way at all totally different situation.

With regards to the demographic , I was at a big Rugby club in Birmingham recently ..... so many Tigers kits being worn as the "local Team"

with regards to success on the field

Heineken Cup
Winners 2006/07
Winners 2003/04

Guinness Premiership/Zurich/ Courage League
Champions 2007/08
Champions 2004/05
Champions 2003/04
Champions 2002/03
Champions 1996/97
Champions 1989/90

Anglo Welsh Powergen Cup
Winners 2005/06

Tetley's Bitter Cup
Winners 1999/2000
Winners 1998/99

I have been a supporter of CCFC since the early seventies, season ticket holder in the 80’s 90’s and 2000’s

I cannot continue to defend the people that believe that CCC / The Higgs or even the people of Coventry owe CCFC or their owners anything. They should be proud to represent our City and act with dignity and honesty and a duty of care to this once proud club. SISU have brought nothing but Shame on themselves with their shoddy behaviour. There are so many that seem to think that SISU should be given everything whilst they threaten to move / liquidate the team

But I suppose one of the main points that I have been making is that it now a done Deal. Lets look at it and try to take the positive out of it and move forward.

This is a big vote of confidence in this city.

CCFC have to choose between terminal decline or a positive action plan that makes the most of what is available. All that WASPS have could have been SISUs any time over the last 7 Years.

The Wasps franchise argument holds plenty of water - the nomadic team thing is rubbish, I'm sorry. They're a West London team that bumped out to Wycombe - the farthest they've ever been from their original home in Sudbury.

Their owner, at the point when he took over the club accepted that it belonged in London. The RFU have insisted that Wasps academy remains in London.

If you want to defend the move, or support them, then feel free to do so. But it's a franchise, and if you accept this you can't complain when it happens to a team that you do care about. What happens in four years time if SISU say that they need to move back to Northampton to survive, and/or build a stadium in the back of beyond? What you will or the council say then?

And nothing that I've said has anything to with defending SISU - if you can see one post anywhere where I've done that, then please show me and I'll delete it!

As for "All that WASPS have could have been SISUs any time over the last 7 Years", that's simply not true. There's no disputing that SISU screwed the negotiations with CCC and AEHC royally when the rent strike began. And they've behaved stupidly since, not least with Fisher's continued public insistence that the club required it's own stadium. But quite clearly on CCFC's return the council did not offer the same deal to the club as Wasps - they talked about rebuilding trust with the club at exactly the same time they signed ACL over.

Now the Ricoh is lost to us, there's actually some logic to Fisher's argument! How does the club grow as the tenant to rugby team?

And the "big vote of confidence in the city", Come on, this was nothing more than a cheap land deal for Wasps. They have absolutely no interest in the city, other than in the hope that they can milk it to replace some of the thousands of their loyal supporters that they will lose by moving up here. We can already see what a big draw they are by the thousands of tickets that they are having to give away.

And the Man U/Liverpool analogy again. They've had no real success for seven years, and their average support other than for the odd European cup game seems to be around 6,000 - 7,000. If we'd wanted to franchise Man U or Liverpool in rugby terms, we should have tried a deal with Leicester or Northampton.

I accept that it's a done deal, and also that you're offering your opinion in the best way that you can - but clearly we differ hugely on this.

On which note, I've got a positive action plan to attempt to make the best of things for CCFC. It involves refusing to ever pay Wasps a penny, and telling anyone who asks me, precisely why. If every Coventry City supporter did the same, then maybe the franchise would fail, and we'd have a chance at owning our own stadium. A long shot, for sure, but better than justifying the unacceptable, imho.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

On which note, I've got a positive action plan to attempt to make the best of things for CCFC. It involves refusing to ever pay Wasps a penny, and telling anyone who asks me, precisely why. If every Coventry City supporter did the same, then maybe the franchise would fail, and we'd have a chance at owning our own stadium. A long shot, for sure, but better than justifying the unacceptable, imho.

I'd rather spend my time splitting into %ages of blame, tbh.

(27.46)

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I think you're investing far too much meaning in the "take time to rebuild trust" statement. To me, that says "no, there is no trust between ACL and SISU at this point and it will be a very long time before there is". It isn't saying "fresh start, we forgive them" as you seem to think. It certainly doesn't say "we are now entering into an exclusivity agreement with SISU". There's no betrayal or contradiction between what they said and the deal they've done with WASPS.

My point about the historic deal that you missed is this: IF they wanted an arrangement where CCFC enjoyed a special right to bid, then they HAD one, didn't they? But THEY wriggled out of it. If SISU didn't want this sort of situation to be possible, they shouldn't have broken the lease that guranteed against it. It's very relevent to the current situation.

As for the late bid for the Higgs share, yes, it was too little-it was based on all sorts of conditions and entering into a long-term working relationship with SISU. Who can't forgive Higgs for not wanting a piece of that after their previous dealings with them?

"If you want the best price for something, you make it available to as many people as possible"-sorry, that still doesn't wash, it smacks of a Skybluecentric viewpoint of this situation being used to justify what you want rather than any grasp of the reality of commericial dealings of this size. It's not a classified ad in the paper for a second hand bike, FFS. You also don't get the best price by desperately asking people to buy something from you.

And you also don't answer the key question of why you would offer something to someone who keeps saying that they aren't interested! Why didn't SISU say "OK we'll match the WASPS offer 100%" as soon as they got whiff of it? As they didn't, who is to blame for this other than them? Of course, they did the opposite-they said they weren't interested and never will be.

A very good point by albatross here too:

"In 2008 they then begin to report the Option to purchase the shares in ACL as resident in Sky Blue Sports and Leisure the holding company that owns OTIUM. So as far back as 2008 SISU believed that they had separated the option to purchase the stadium from the football club. The belief that SISU had done this is beyond debate, that actual legal position of where the option lies has proved to be less clear. The intent was totally clear , the football club would not own ACL (ie the RICOH)"

Their underhanded intent and lack of interest in the club couldn't be any clearer. Is it any wonder nobody wants to do business with them? ESPECIALLY the Council and the local charity.

It's blindingly obvious that the Council did the right thing last week; not even worth debating.

 

[cloughie]

The reality is that sisu should have grasped the opportunity to do as wasps are with marketing etc. Then buy the 50% share in the first 2 /3 years, yet they chose to rather than pay for it, thought they would rather have it for nothing and began there attempt to distress ACL.

NO ONE TO BLAME BUT SISU

 

[letsallsingtogether]

The reality is that sisu should have grasped the opportunity to do as wasps are with marketing etc. Then buy the 50% share in the first 2 /3 years, yet they chose to rather than pay for it, thought they would rather have it for nothing and began there attempt to distress ACL.

NO ONE TO BLAME BUT SISU

:claping hands:

Careful you will be tarnished with the you don't support the city brush.

 

[duffer]

I think you're investing far too much meaning in the "take time to rebuild trust" statement. To me, that says "no, there is no trust between ACL and SISU at this point and it will be a very long time before there is". It isn't saying "fresh start, we forgive them" as you seem to think. It certainly doesn't say "we are now entering into an exclusivity agreement with SISU". There's no betrayal or contradiction between what they said and the deal they've done with WASPS.

My point about the historic deal that you missed is this: IF they wanted an arrangement where CCFC enjoyed a special right to bid, then they HAD one, didn't they? But THEY wriggled out of it. If SISU didn't want this sort of situation to be possible, they shouldn't have broken the lease that guranteed against it. It's very relevent to the current situation.

As for the late bid for the Higgs share, yes, it was too little-it was based on all sorts of conditions and entering into a long-term working relationship with SISU. Who can't forgive Higgs for not wanting a piece of that after their previous dealings with them?

"If you want the best price for something, you make it available to as many people as possible"-sorry, that still doesn't wash, it smacks of a Skybluecentric viewpoint of this situation being used to justify what you want rather than any grasp of the reality of commericial dealings of this size. It's not a classified ad in the paper for a second hand bike, FFS. You also don't get the best price by desperately asking people to buy something from you.

And you also don't answer the key question of why you would offer something to someone who keeps saying that they aren't interested! Why didn't SISU say "OK we'll match the WASPS offer 100%" as soon as they got whiff of it? As they didn't, who is to blame for this other than them? Of course, they did the opposite-they said they weren't interested and never will be.

I'm sorry - did the council say they wanted to take time to rebuild trust before talking about ownership, or didn't they?

It's a simple fact. At the very time that the deputy leader of the council was talking about learning to not close doors on each other, they were shutting the door on CCFC (regardless of possible future owners). Forever.

I'm not reading too much into it, but I'd say you're trying to deny it to serve your argument.

As for trying to get the best price for something, I find it frankly bizarre that anyone would suggest that the best way to do this would be to limit who you offer it to. What the council got was the best price that Wasps were prepared to pay at that point in time. No one else got a sniff, and now no one else ever will.

The funny thing about your key question and SISU not being interested is almost moot. As we've seen SISU did (seemingly) match Wasps offer to Higgs, so maybe a bit of negotiation behind the scenes before selling to Wasps might have led to a different outcome. What we do know for sure is that the 100% of ACL, £5.5m, 250-year lease was never offered to the club.

But my bigger point is that there was no need to sell to Wasps. The right thing to have done, for the good of CCFC and the City, would have been to sit tight, and y'know, develop trust. In four years time, where do you think we'd have been when the new stadium hadn't been built, and CCFC are still at the Ricoh. Do you think by that point that attitudes to a deal might have changed during that period?

And now, that the Wasps deal is done, where do the club go now in four years time? Do CCFC remain a tenant forever, leaving them severely hampered, or do they leave, or do they fold. What good do any of those options do for the city?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm sorry - did the council say they wanted to take time to rebuild trust before talking about ownership, or didn't they?

The football club is a sideshow.

 

[duffer]

A very good point by albatross here too:

"In 2008 they then begin to report the Option to purchase the shares in ACL as resident in Sky Blue Sports and Leisure the holding company that owns OTIUM. So as far back as 2008 SISU believed that they had separated the option to purchase the stadium from the football club. The belief that SISU had done this is beyond debate, that actual legal position of where the option lies has proved to be less clear. The intent was totally clear , the football club would not own ACL (ie the RICOH)"

Their underhanded intent and lack of interest in the club couldn't be any clearer. Is it any wonder nobody wants to do business with them? ESPECIALLY the Council and the local charity.

It's blindingly obvious that the Council did the right thing last week; not even worth debating.

Not worth debating if you don't trouble yourself with a few inconvenient facts that don't suit your "Victory!" argument, I'd agree.