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Deleted member 5849
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It has been demonstrated that the 50% on offer then was unsellable.
Victory for the City of Coventry yesterday (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter SydneySkyBlue
- Start date
It has been demonstrated that the 50% on offer then was unsellable.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Can you show me where it has been proven that there are parties who would like to buy the club? Furthermore can you explain how they will be keen for buying a club that has no chance of owning its own ground and has a poor League 1 squad to its name?
SydneySkyBlue
Member
You believe that our Council should have struck a deal with the very people who have undermined them and taken them to court at every opportunity (and still continue to do so) not to mention trying to distress ACL and 'steal' the stadium at a knock down price?
...and yet I'm the one ignoring inconvenient facts.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
You don't know who's interested until the club is up for sale. I think that point was well and truly proven when the club went into administration - the "SISU are the only show in town" brigade had egg on their faces and yet here we are again for some reason.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Don't give SISU any ideas. Instead of trying to get us to buy Festers tops all they would have to do is paint black lines on last seasons away kit.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
While there will always be people interested, I'd rather we aimed higher than previous dismal failures backed by a US property developer, and a bloke who can't use email, but managed to get disqualified from the regulatory body of his profession.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
What i think many people quite reasonably expected was a period of calm, allowing everyone to draw breath after sixfields and then start a rebuilding process. It was constantly stated that acl was doing fine financially so there seemed no need for an immediate sale to anyone at all - certainly not a secret deal rushed through with no consultation allowing the worst kind of sports club turned into a financial franchise to uproot from its loyal supporter base in the hope of attracting new transient customers.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
We have no evidence that Haskell would have done a bad job. Certainly couldn't have done any worse than SISU - not even a Leicester fan could.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Apart from the fact ACL's preferred administrator cast doubt over his ability to buy the club, his failed pursuit of other clubs, his property development background suggesting he was interested in property deals rather than football club... and him being backed by two dismal failures from the past, you mean?
SydneySkyBlue
Member
From a business and commercial point of view, it was too good a deal for the Council to turn down IMO.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Why and how?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Most clubs don't own their own grounds. It would come down to the price wanted. When we went into administration there was interest until it came out that only debt was for sale.
What home did Wasps have when they got took over? What they did get was owners with a plan. The opposite to what we have.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
how on earth can you say that when the details are secret?
SydneySkyBlue
Member
Doubt over his ability to buy the club based on what?
His failed pursuit of other clubs - Meaning he should never be able to own one?
If you ask me a property tycoon is exactly what we need - development around the stadium and build from there.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
We have a Premiership rugby club coming to the city. How can that be a bad thing?
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
His lack of cash.
Meaning his lack of cash, and desire to use them as money making ventures rather than a love of the club.
What we need for sure is someone who could split the stadium and land from club to make money...
You never learn...
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
:facepalm:
SydneySkyBlue
Member
Not only that, one that now has the second highest turnover in Europe and therefore great great potential.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
MichaelCCFC
New Member
You're doing a grendel, avoiding the question and asking a different question to divert attention. You said "From a business and commercial point of view, it was too good a deal for the Council to turn down IMO." I asked how on earth you can say that when the details are secret - your lack of an answer suggests you have no idea and are just making things up
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Evening Duffer, I respect your detailed and sensible reply. I'm not normally a fan of lengthy responses, but as you've taken the time, I will also, in an attempt to explain my view.
I don't think the wasps deal changes the likelihood of building a new ground as to me there's no good reason to build one I just cannot see the sense in spending the money. I guess I can explain better if I set out what I believe to be common ground, if someone built a ground for free, even a 15,000 seater I think most would agree that it would make financial sense to move in, if the same ground cost us £100m I think most would agree that any extra money from advertising and food etc just wouldn't make it financially viable.
So, if we can agree on this, then it comes down to the value at which point the extra revenues make the build costs worthwhile.
Land costs are currently increasing rapidly, maybe a land deal was fixed when prices were lower a few years ago, but I doubt it. Prices at the moment can be as much as £1.5m an acre, if you get a deal without planning and take a chance you can pay less, but not really a wise move.
I think the very minimum you could buy land and build a small stadium would be £40m. If you repay this over 40 years at 5% then that's about £2.5m a year, you are also then responsible for business rates, upkeep of the stadium, insurance etc etc. I don't think extra advertising income, and profit from selling food etc, would be enough to make it viable.
This would also take many years to build, TF said before he was trying to arrange a rent extension to 5 years, so you've got to think it would take at least this long, I think this also backs up the argument that they haven't made any land deals yet.
Then if this stadium was built you'd be limiting the attendance, and average attendances will drop as there will be no big cup games to boost the average, so I think we'll end up with much less ticket income than we would get at the Ricoh.
So, in summary my view is it is not probable that we will move, it wasn't probable before wasps came, and it's not probable now. It is just not a rational decision to spend so much on an annual basis to chase income that would be lower than the extra costs.
My statement about the offer was based on Lucas' asking for offers in Oct and Dec 13, that was when SISU had their final chance I believe. The statement that came out when we returned were just appeasing words, the deal was already in the final stages in my belief. These deals cannot be done in less than 6 months, I believe when offers were asked for at the end of 2013 it wasn't bluff.
So I have no particular argument with what you write about the Council when we came back as I was referring to earlier.
About the offer, clearly they didn't go to SISU and say we've had this offer do you want to match it, but we also don't know whether the Council approached wasps begging to do a deal, hopefully one day we will, but for now whether you believe wasps made an offer first or the Council made the offer we simply do not know.
I think, and happy to be corrected here, that a lease extension to 125 years was talked about/agreed as part of the prospective deal with SISU, clearly that deal failed, but it indicates that the lease extension was on the table. The fact that it is now 250 years is largely an irrelevance, the stadium will not last 125 without major works being undertaken, so it may as well be 500 years than 250. The Council getting £1m for moving from 125 to 250 seems about right to me.
My view on the deal to sell is that I'm happy if Higgs have decided to take some money now to concentrate on the things they want to do. Now that the deal is done I'd like to hear from the Council why they think it's a good deal, it seems too cheap a price to me, they should be looking to hold on for the long term, looking to when SISU have gone so that at least we would appear more attractive a proposition to any new buyer as they may have the option to buy into ACL.
Cheers.
covmark
Well-Known Member
This comment just shows what a massive bellend you are.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
SydneySkyBlue
Member
There's no need for those kind of accusations - way below the belt!
Of course I don't know the commercial details - none of us do. If you want to play it that way, who are you to say that it's a bad thing?
All we can do is look at it from an outside perspective. Only a mad man would say that a world class rugby team playing out its games in Coventry is a bad thing for the city.
I do apologise for the short answers, it's getting late!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Difference being that Wasps at least have top flight rugby to throw into the mix. No stake in the ground (perhaps more crucial than owning outright), crap third tier team. Owners who will want a huge part of their money back as part of any deal to leave and with a reputation of being impossible to work with. I ask again, who would even consider taking us on?
SydneySkyBlue
Member
Right, I am indeed checking out. Enjoy. X
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Drugs worn off at last?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So you're referring to a point in the past when we had only one offer that could be described as credible. Bear in mind that was when the club still had a shot at buying into ACL-now we don't. So can you show how there would be interested parties were the club put up for sale now?
MichaelCCFC
New Member
There's no need for those kind of accusations - way below the belt!
Of course I don't know the commercial details - none of us do. If you want to play it that way, who are you to say that it's a bad thing?
All we can do is look at it from an outside perspective. Only a mad man would say that a world class rugby team playing out its games in Coventry is a bad thing for the city.
I do apologise for the short answers, it's getting late!
Your grendel impression gets even better - anyone who disagrees with you is a mad man!!!! You are unable to provide a single fact to back up your argument and then anyone who points out wasps is wrong in principle and in the negative material impact it will have on CRFC alone, is dismissed as mad, I'm afraid there is no credibility at all in what you are saying
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
...and that was Otium's:facepalm:
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Skybluedan is waiting for another go on the sticky sofa.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Sorry where do the figures come from before they have even played a game, or paid back the 20 odd million for the stadium?
I would hazard a guess that the second highest turnover in Europe is currently far from the truth. When they have consistent support like the Tigers or Saints, coupled with the other income streams and they have cleared the debts then yes they may have a very good turnover, but then it wont make a huge amount of difference on the player front as they still have to stick to the stringent RFU salary cap.
Moff
Well-Known Member
I think your lack of Rugby knowledge is showing you up more than a little. I think you are in a minority of one that would use the words 'World Class' to describe Wasps.
You seem to be holding your new club in the same high regard you had for SISU when they took us over. They say lightning never strikes twice, but in your case it quite clearly has.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Joined this late, too much to read. May have the wrong end of the gist. Was it this was too good a deal for the council to turn down?
If so
I suppose they either say no to a local economy boost, jobs, premiership rugby in the City. SISU carry their repeated mantra out and Move CCFC out of Coventry.
So you have the missed opportunity from wasps plus the negative impact on the City of CCFC leaving.
Or they take a chance on the Wasps deal to cushion the blow of CCFC leaving. They also hope that SISU won't see it through and they get the best of both worlds.
Not sure about the term 'too good to be true,' but a 'no brainer' is probably more Reflective. As crap as it is for the 30,000 'active' Cov fans
If so
I suppose they either say no to a local economy boost, jobs, premiership rugby in the City. SISU carry their repeated mantra out and Move CCFC out of Coventry.
So you have the missed opportunity from wasps plus the negative impact on the City of CCFC leaving.
Or they take a chance on the Wasps deal to cushion the blow of CCFC leaving. They also hope that SISU won't see it through and they get the best of both worlds.
Not sure about the term 'too good to be true,' but a 'no brainer' is probably more Reflective. As crap as it is for the 30,000 'active' Cov fans
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