Wake up supporters - you are being conned! (1 Viewer)

[dongonzalos]

The irony James Smith, is that international investors with pockets cumulatively as deep, if not deeper than the aforementioned dragons would be investing in that very plan tabled by Fisher! Are these successful business people stupid? Or are we...?

But then there's us meager midlands folk who think we know everything. We think it's perfectly conceivable, and wholly endorsable that investors shouldn't look to recoup their monies from a business investment. Infact, they should just pump money into our club whilst sustaining losses and expect nothing in return. Particularly in terms of fan-support. And god forbid they make moves to affect change to this very situation....

The funniest thing for me, is that I could inexplicably stomach the above if that was as far as the fickleness went. But the players are largely unsupported too. A poor game, or a poor run of form, and they are being flamed on facebook and twitter. What is the excuse of fans for that lack of support. Will we blame SISU for that also?

Infact, I didn't win the lottery on Saturday, and the woman of my dreams is overtly sexually liberated and making a fool of me. God damn those SISU bastards for that!....

I am surprised you said meagre midlands folk as oppose to Coventrians?

 

---

[Grendel]

Not a single post by him about our issues has contained any actual facts. He then has the audacity to pour scorn on others and then cry about people not being capable of debating with him. Maybe people won't debate with him because they know that he'll resort to point scoring and therefore cannot be arsed

They always contain facts. Ask a question and ill factually answer it. Here's a fact. We were charged the highest rent in league one. Here is another fact we were charged the highest rent in the championship. Oh one more fact all other clubs with council owned stadiums have a FAR better deal than us

Sadly the other fact is supporters like you seem to get off on these facts without realising the damage they have done.

 

[dongonzalos]

Can't see how they can I assume people who agree to invest in such funds are aware these are high risk investments.

As in you would not invest as much if you realised how high risk it was.

Or that It has became an even higher risk due to the previous management of their investment?

 

[dongonzalos]

They always contain facts. Ask a question and ill factually answer it. Here's a fact. We were charged the highest rent in league one. Here is another fact we were charged the highest rent in the championship. Oh one more fact all other clubs with council owned stadiums have a FAR better deal than us

Sadly the other fact is supporters like you seem to get off on these facts without realising the damage they have done.

Who are we compared to stadium wise that were renting in both those divisions?

 

[TheRoyalScam]

I am surprised you said meagre midlands folk as oppose to Coventrians?

Surprised? In his opening post he used the phrase 'the primate contingent of this forum'. He's here to educate us, dontcha know!

 

[Grendel]

As in you would not invest as much if you realised how high risk it was.

Or that It has became an even higher risk due to the previous management of their investment?

As long as the advisor has followed correct FSA regulations its fine and I'm pretty certain the investments would be done in finance houses over a portfolio spread. No one would know they are investing in sisu anyway is my guess. It doesn't work like that. You go to an investment firm and ask for a high risk investment and a tiny percentage is put in sisu is how I assume their funds are made up.

 

[Gary.j]

Unfortunately this is the problem many fans off the forum will choose to go the first game of the season and many share the views of just here 4 coffee, it's not wrong to have an opinion on the matter. It has to be said both arguements have valid points, in the end what the club needs is either;

a) Complete clean slate - New owners, staying at the Ricoh under CCFC ownership (which means no more CCC/ACL), etc.

b) Same ownership but for someone to mediate a deal that suits both parties for the Ricoh.

c) Regrettably.... Move away from the Ricoh and build a new ground.

Point A & B don't look likely and C has many disapporvals, but based on facts and not if's and but's C is the only choice.

Edit: I should just note that point C sounds absolutely fantastic, but when you haven't purchased land, scaled a model, planning permission and so on I can't say I hold great hope..

a). And the new owners are us! https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

 

[Gary.j]

It is all so simple isn't it?

No one involved with the Ricoh or Alan Higgs trust Sisu and do will not deal with them.

Rather than selling the club to someone who will be able to complete a viable business partnership Sisu are willing to risk the very future of Ccfc.

Very very sad.

Only possible chance for Ccfc long term is a new set of owners but then its only a chance. Elliott, Hoffman and other Ccfc stalwarts all said Sisu were the answer and now look.

Move and the club dies quickly, stay and it dies slowly.

Anyone give me any hope??

Fl could always pull out a rabbit and say no viable business plan and make Appleton think again but I just can't see it

Here's your hope! https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

 

[dongonzalos]

As long as the advisor has followed correct FSA regulations its fine and I'm pretty certain the investments would be done in finance houses over a portfolio spread. No one would know they are investing in sisu anyway is my guess. It doesn't work like that. You go to an investment firm and ask for a high risk investment and a tiny percentage is put in sisu is how I assume their funds are made up.

Thanks for that

TBH I would live to know a lot more about who is investing in SISU. How they are investing and what concept was sold to them.

 

[dongonzalos]

Surprised? In his opening post he used the phrase 'the primate contingent of this forum'. He's here to educate us, dontcha know!

Just can't remember the last time I referred to myself or others as midlanders, especially when you are on a Coventry forum talking to fellow Coventry fans.

 

[Grendel]

Thanks for that

TBH I would live to know a lot more about who is investing in SISU. How they are investing and what concept was sold to them.

Mostly pension funds I'd imagine who invest small percentages of their portfolio in high rush equities.

 

[just-here-4-coffee]

Just can't remember the last time I referred to myself or others as midlanders, especially when you are on a Coventry forum talking to fellow Coventry fans.

Well one or two of us don't live in Coventry. Some of us are unfortunate enough to live a couple of miles down the A444. I didn't want to rule anybody in the locality out on account of the number of pedantic replies to my posts. Seems my efforts to eliminate this problem in advance were met with a different kind of pedantic response. Figures really...

 

[Delboycov]

Just can't remember the last time I referred to myself or others as midlanders, especially when you are on a Coventry forum talking to fellow Coventry fans.

Noticed that too...think he somewhat gave the game away with that one! He'll be doing my pet hate with Eakin next, calling us 'Sky Blues' instead of 'The Sky Blues'!

 

[Grendel]

Well one or two of us don't live in Coventry. Some of us are unfortunate enough to live a couple of miles down the A444. I didn't want to rule anybody in the locality out on account of the number of pedantic replies to my posts. Seems my efforts to eliminate this problem in advance were met with a different kind of pedantic response. Figures really...

Problem with you is you picked a distinct user name. It seems if you are jack or James and post nothing about football and everything about ACL and the council getting their pound of flesh then no one on here questions you.

 

[dongonzalos]

Well one or two of us don't live in Coventry. Some of us are unfortunate enough to live a couple of miles down the A444. I didn't want to rule anybody in the locality out on account of the number of pedantic replies to my posts. Seems my efforts to eliminate this problem in advance were met with a different kind of pedantic response. Figures really...

Tbf I was going to be pedantic I would point out there are sky blues fans all over the world. You can't include them all so meagre Coventry fans may have covered it.

I tend to only get referred to as a midlander by people from down south not sure why that is.

Northerners call me a southerner
Southerners call me a midlander.

Fellow midlanders tend to be more area specific

 

[RoboCCFC90]

a). And the new owners are us! https://www.facebook.com/Coventry1883

Could you elaborate for me?

 

[RPHunt]

As long as the advisor has followed correct FSA regulations its fine and I'm pretty certain the investments would be done in finance houses over a portfolio spread. No one would know they are investing in sisu anyway is my guess. It doesn't work like that. You go to an investment firm and ask for a high risk investment and a tiny percentage is put in sisu is how I assume their funds are made up.

Mostly pension funds I'd imagine who invest small percentages of their portfolio in high rush equities.

You really do not have a clue what you are talking about - again.

 

[just-here-4-coffee]

Problem with you is you picked a distinct user name. It seems if you are jack or James and post nothing about football and everything about ACL and the council getting their pound of flesh then no one on here questions you.

What tickles me is that people are so pedantic yet miss blindingly obvious things. In my initial post I left my twitter username. Anyone could follow that to discover i'm not a SISU employee, or indeed TF.

 

[Grendel]

You really do not have a clue what you are talking about - again.

Well you clearly are a an expert - please enlighten me.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

What tickles me is that people are so pedantic yet miss blindingly obvious things. In my initial post I left my twitter username. Anyone could follow that to discover i'm not a SISU employee, or indeed TF.

Ah but you haven't been called a wum or a SISU rent boy yet so don't worry the road is long..

 

[Grendel]

What tickles me is that people are so pedantic yet miss blindingly obvious things. In my initial post I left my twitter username. Anyone could follow that to discover i'm not a SISU employee, or indeed TF.

I suppose to also try and hide behind a cloak of impartiality you could also claim to be from another country - Switzerland or Singapore just as random examples.

 

[James Smith]

The irony James Smith, is that international investors with pockets cumulatively as deep, if not deeper than the aforementioned dragons would be investing in that very plan tabled by Fisher! Are these successful business people stupid? Or are we...?

And there again you mention investors, in the first post you mentioned how much SISU had invested in our club. But they haven't really have they, they've leant the club the money and as a lender they will want it back presumably with interest. If they had invested that amount they'd more than likely have received a share of the business in return. You may have noticed that they don't loan money on Dragons Den they invest if they think there is a chance of getting a return on their investment and receive a share of the business. Investments are like a gamble some you win some you lose, the value of your investment may go down as well as up.

But then there's us meager midlands folk who think we know everything. We think it's perfectly conceivable, and wholly endorsable that investors shouldn't look to recoup their monies from a business investment. Infact, they should just pump money into our club whilst sustaining losses and expect nothing in return. Particularly in terms of fan-support. And god forbid they make moves to affect change to this very situation....

They have made loans and they're expected to be repaid, didn't see much investment as fans were asked to hand over their shares for nowt.

The funniest thing for me, is that I could inexplicably stomach the above if that was as far as the fickleness went. But the players are largely unsupported too. A poor game, or a poor run of form, and they are being flamed on facebook and twitter. What is the excuse of fans for that lack of support. Will we blame SISU for that also?

Infact, I didn't win the lottery on Saturday, and the woman of my dreams is overtly sexually liberated and making a fool of me. God damn those SISU bastards for that!....

Just had a thought, does anyone think young Timothy might have money tied up in the club?

 

[James Smith]

Problem with you is you picked a distinct user name. It seems if you are jack or James and post nothing about football and everything about ACL and the council getting their pound of flesh then no one on here questions you.

Maybe it's thanks to that annoying habit of backing up my posts with evidence if I can?

 

[just-here-4-coffee]

And there again you mention investors, in the first post you mentioned how much SISU had invested in our club. But they haven't really have they, they've leant the club the money and as a lender they will want it back presumably with interest. If they had invested that amount they'd more than likely have received a share of the business in return. You may have noticed that they don't loan money on Dragons Den they invest if they think there is a chance of getting a return on their investment and receive a share of the business. Investments are like a gamble some you win some you lose, the value of your investment may go down as well as up.

They have made loans and they're expected to be repaid, didn't see much investment as fans were asked to hand over their shares for nowt.

Just had a thought, does anyone think young Timothy might have money tied up in the club?

The concept of a business loan and an investment are not that different. When an investor offers up some cash, he's planning one of two things - either an exit strategy where he recoups his investment + interest, or a dividend; whereby he recoups his investment + interest longer-term. Dragons have loaned money and reduced investment in line with return. Business is an incentive/return game, and SISU are a hedge fund. They make money from risking people's money. It is not immoral for them to chalk up money they've put in as a loan. Many businesses of this magnitude/scale, and of much less magnitude/scale operate this way with directors loans etc.

The real question should be, how do we reduce the loan money that SISU have propped up the club with and release their grip on the club. The answer? Support them in trying to make CCFC a viable business venture instead of a ship full of mutiny and dissent. Even those Hoffman and Elliot who are no longer employed/affiliated with the club feel the need to go and rally up support against their past employers. Do you guys think this is for your agenda or theirs? In the two years they've been pratting about, has anything fruitful ever emerged? Or is this the case of two bitter old planks trying to make SISU pay for releasing them.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Problem with you is you picked a distinct user name. It seems if you are jack or James and post nothing about football and everything about ACL and the council getting their pound of flesh then no one on here questions you.

Well when 'inside track' did just the same thing but from the other side of the argument you weren't complaining.

 

[torchomatic]

Triumphant response!

There's one way to find out for sure. Ask Fisher if he likes coffee, if he does then you've got him bang to rights.

Thanks Mr Fisher

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Triumphant response!

There's one way to find out for sure. Ask Fisher if he likes coffee, if he does then you've got him bang to rights.

What if he say's loves Brighton and was born there?? :thinking about::thinking about:

 

[torchomatic]

I think Nick should ban anyone who doesn't end every post with NOPM or Sisu Out. That would sort it.

Ah but you haven't been called a wum or a SISU rent boy yet so don't worry the road is long..

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The concept of a business loan and an investment are not that different. When an investor offers up some cash, he's planning one of two things - either an exit strategy where he recoups his investment + interest, or a dividend; whereby he recoups his investment + interest longer-term. Dragons have loaned money and reduced investment in line with return. Business is an incentive/return game, and SISU are a hedge fund. They make money from risking people's money. It is not immoral for them to chalk up money they've put in as a loan. Many businesses of this magnitude/scale, and of much less magnitude/scale operate this way with directors loans etc.

The real question should be, how do we reduce the loan money that SISU have propped up the club with and release their grip on the club. The answer? Support them in trying to make CCFC a viable business venture instead of a ship full of mutiny and dissent. Even those Hoffman and Elliot who are no longer employed/affiliated with the club feel the need to go and rally up support against their past employers. Do you guys think this is for your agenda or theirs? In the two years they've been pratting about, has anything fruitful ever emerged? Or is this the case of two bitter old planks trying to make SISU pay for releasing them.

They don't seem open to offers which is outright baffling given the extreme lengths they're going to in order to bust a stadium management company. If somebody were to offer a sizeable percentage of their total investment with more to follow as the club finds it feet, would they really reject it?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I think Nick should ban anyone who doesn't end every post with NOPM or Sisu Out. That would sort it.

"Yes Joy I will make sure I am not compromised"

SISU OUT, NOPM, SISU W*****S!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What if he say's loves Brighton and was born there?? :thinking about::thinking about:

I fulfill one half of those criteria :thinking about:

 

[valiant15]

I think Nick should ban anyone who doesn't end every post with NOPM or Sisu Out. That would sort it.

Would you support Richardson if he was behind a move to northampton and deliberately trying to distress acl?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I fulfill one half of those criteria :thinking about:

Hi Timmy, the messiah has come among us :wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hi Timmy, the messiah has come among us :wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:

What does Fisher have to do with that glorious Sussex resort, might I ask?

 

[CCFCSteve]

They always contain facts. Ask a question and ill factually answer it. Here's a fact. We were charged the highest rent in league one. Here is another fact we were charged the highest rent in the championship. Oh one more fact all other clubs with council owned stadiums have a FAR better deal than us

Sadly the other fact is supporters like you seem to get off on these facts without realising the damage they have done.

To be fair you've missed a couple more facts off there. Firstly that it was a contractual agreement to pay this amount of rent (appreciate this was before susu controlled the club) after the council and trust bailed us out. Secondly, sisu would have known about the agreement yet didnt do anything about it when they bought the club. Thirdly, from what I read acl were willing to offer a substantially reduced rent that is apparently the same as what Walsall pay (for twice the stadium and the capacity that if things were going well on the pitch could have generated significantly more income for the club...through ticket sales). Finally, sisu had plenty of opportunity to buy Higgs share of acl over the past few yers yet never bothered until they had distressed (intentionally or not) acl by not paying rent and losing all trust of the parties involved. This could surely have provided additional income and a greater say in its dealings with the club.

I think most fans would agree that the original rent was high, especially in the lower leagues but this could/should have been dealt with a lot sooner. This however is not acls fault but the clubs (and its past and present owners).

I've said it before and ill say it again, I cannot see how what has happened since administration and what is currently being proposed (which is very little other than a statement that we're not playing at the ricoh ever again) does anything other than financially worsen our position.

Financially it just doesn't make sense.