Wasps current finances & hope (19 Viewers)

[Nick]

I emailed the Council and they replied saying it was ACL that make the decision, and I emailed ACL stating the 10k requirement, and they said it's too hard to predict. Which is obviously very profitable for them (they didn't say that bit).

Really? How can the Council say it's up to ACL to decide?

Get the email posted up

Pretty sure if they have estimated every game this season as over 10k they mustn't be doing it right, especially the night games.

Ricoh Arena - Residents' Parking Scheme | Ricoh Arena - Residents' Parking Scheme | Coventry City Council

Over 12,000 homes are covered by the Ricoh Arena Residents’ Parking Scheme. It aims to make sure there are no parking problems on major event days, where more than 10,000 people are expected at the Arena.

To help avoid traffic problems, Arena Coventry Ltd will be encouraging visitors to use public transport instead of driving to the stadium.

The Ricoh Arena Residents' Parking Scheme area is divided into seven zones, AA, AB, AC, AD, AE, AF and AG. The dates and times of the next 'event day' will be displayed on signs at the entrances to all the Arena parking zones.

 

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[Grendel]

It’s the biggest issue to me. I’m not using public transport to go to a football game and I’m damned if I’m paying an obscene amount to park.

The cheaper car parks are further away which is also a pain.

To be honest I’m glad the crowds are as they are. When it gets above 15 - 20,000 it’s a real pain in the arse.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

I’d say it’s really easy to predict what the gates are likely to be. We’ve had 2 over 10k this season so in all probability we’ll have less than 10k for majority of games. If acl wanted to look after people then a call to the club ticket office on a Thursday would give them a very good indication of the attendance.
I would like to see anyone defend Wasps/Acl/council’s stance and behaviour on this although I’m sure someone will try their best.

 

[italiahorse]

The green plan only applies with gates over a threshold of 10k. Stop ignoring that key point!

I bought it up so how am I ignoring it ? Doh..
The Green plan is simply to reduce the number of cars used. The 10K was just one of many enablers.
I suggest that if it was pushed on match days it would be reduced anyway.
As I mentioned earlier a better plan would be to include the cost of public transport on the day with the purchase of a match ticket.

 

[italiahorse]

To be honest I’m glad the crowds are as they are. When it gets above 15 - 20,000 it’s a real pain in the arse.

Yea, lets keep it at 6,000. LOL

 

[Nick]

I bought it up so how am I ignoring it ? Doh..
The Green plan is simply to reduce the number of cars used. The 10K was just one of many enablers.
I suggest that if it was pushed on match days it would be reduced anyway.
As I mentioned earlier a better plan would be to include the cost of public transport on the day with the purchase of a match ticket.

If that's the case, what's the point in a "green plan" if the restrictions are still in place even with less than 10K?

 

[italiahorse]

If that's the case, what's the point in a "green plan" if the restrictions are still in place even with less than 10K?

.... because the aim is to reduce the number of cars travelling to any event.
Encouraging people to walk or use public transport. Thats why the car parks were supposedly priced at least 25% higher the using public transport.

 

[Nick]

.... because the aim is to reduce the number of cars travelling to any event.

So why set a limit on the first place if it doesn't make a difference? Just ban cars unless they pay to park...

 

[italiahorse]

So why set a limit on the first place if it doesn't make a difference? Just ban cars unless they pay to park...

The limit was set when the 'regular' event (CCFC) was envisaged to always be above 10,000.
Occasional events in the halls would always be below 10,000 and it was seen as a fair compromise on the cost of implementing the scheme and satisfying the residents.
It was always intended to avoid the problems created for residents around Highfield Road when the new stadium was up and running.
Even at 6,000 the parking on roads around the stadium would be full in effect every 2 weeks. Something that was always the intention to avoid.
That's why I'm saying if 10,000 rule was pushed then it would be reduced in a modification of the residents scheme.
This is the first (and last hopefully) season that you can predict that most games will be below 10,000.

 

[Nick]

The limit was set when the 'regular' event (CCFC) was envisaged to always be above 10,000.
Occasional events in the halls would always be below 10,000 and it was seen as a fair compromise on the cost of implementing the scheme and satisfying the residents.
It was always intended to avoid the problems created for residents around Highfield Road when the new stadium was up and running.
Even at 6,000 the parking on roads around the stadium would be full in effect every 2 weeks. Something that was always the intention to avoid.
That's why I'm saying if 10,000 rule was pushed then it would be reduced in a modification of the residents scheme.
This is the first (and last hopefully) season that you can predict that most games will be below 10,000.

So if there's a trade event with 3k people why not allow check a trade games to park wherever?

If the limit is 10000, there's no point having one if something below that doesn't trigger a change.

Unless of course football fans will pay more parking than trade show people?

 

[stupot07]

10k is the benchmark and so should be used to make the decision, not that its annoying to residents or the wider aspiration of reducing cars.

He just can't help but defend them.

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[italiahorse]

So if there's a trade event with 3k people why not allow check a trade games to park wherever?

If the limit is 10000, there's no point having one if something below that doesn't trigger a change.

Unless of course football fans will pay more parking than trade show people?

We did have some Checkatrade games with no restrictions.

 

[italiahorse]

10k is the benchmark and so should be used to make the decision, not that its annoying to residents or the wider aspiration of reducing cars.

He just can't help but defend them.

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It's a residents parking scheme, so it's all about the residents.
How would you feel if it was your street ?

 

[Grendel]

It's a residents parking scheme, so it's all about the residents.
How would you feel if it was your street ?

I’d feel that the agreement was no longer valid and so that’s that.

They have no grounds for complaint and as if you care anyway.

 

[italiahorse]

I’d feel that the agreement was no longer valid and so that’s that.
They have no grounds for complaint and as if you care anyway.

Upset your neighbours and they will complain about everything from noise to car passenger numbers.
Sometimes it's all about considering others.
How did you get on with the Gypsies in Meriden ?

 

[Grendel]

Upset your neighbours and they will complain about everything from noise to car passenger numbers.
Sometimes it's all about considering others.
How did you get on with the Gypsies in Meriden ?

Illegal travellers versus people not committing any offence by parking on a public road. Good comparison.

 

[italiahorse]

Illegal travellers versus people not committing any offence by parking on a public road. Good comparison.

It's all about quality of life though in both scenarios.
The whole scheme was to protect residents from regular disruption as experienced at HR.

 

[stupot07]

It's a residents parking scheme, so it's all about the residents.
How would you feel if it was your street ?

For 3-3.5 hours 21 days a year, I would be fine as I would know what the conditions are...plus my car would be parked up as I would be at the Ricoh.

The Ts and Cs say 10k and that is the benchmark. Again, its not about the residents, CCC are not making any decision, wasps/acl are and they don't give a flying f*** about the residents or about those that abuse the parking in tesco.

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[Grendel]

It's all about quality of life though in both scenarios.
The whole scheme was to protect residents from regular disruption as experienced at HR.

Indeed. So I assume the initial study believed less than 10,000 wasn’t sufficient to cause disruption.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's all about quality of life though in both scenarios.
The whole scheme was to protect residents from regular disruption as experienced at HR.

But the point remains... why have a limit, then?

Look, I absolutely get that if you own a house and someone dumps a stadium and exhibition hall near to it, you might not be overwhelmed. But then... don't have a limit full stop. Surely the idea was that the halls were to be used frequently too?!?

And if there *is* a limit, then why not actually use it. There must have been a rationale why under 10,000 was acceptable, after all.

 

[italiahorse]

For 3-3.5 hours 21 days a year, I would be fine as I would know what the conditions are...plus my car would be parked up as I would be at the Ricoh.

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Indeed. So I assume the initial study believed less than 10,000 wasn’t sufficient to cause disruption.

As I said it was to prevent 'regular' disruption as HR
Yes, who would have though CCFC would be playing to 6,000.
Unbelievable they got it wrong.?

 

[stupot07]

But the point remains... why have a limit, then?

Look, I absolutely get that if you own a house and someone dumps a stadium and exhibition hall near to it, you might not be overwhelmed. But then... don't have a limit full stop. Surely the idea was that the halls were to be used frequently too?!?

And if there *is* a limit, then why not actually use it. There must have been a rationale why under 10,000 was acceptable, after all.

Nail on head. And why are ACL/Wasps making that decision.

Either have a limit or not. If you have one, use it, if not just make it permanent restrictions.

Italia won't have of because its bad mouthing wasps.

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[Nick]

It's a residents parking scheme, so it's all about the residents.
How would you feel if it was your street ?

Yes and it is set for events over 10k. So if an event has 6k they would be aware it doesn't count?

If it's felt 6k is too many, then the original limit is pointless.

Acl also get the decision, they run car parking..

 

[italiahorse]

Nail on head. And why are ACL/Wasps making that decision.

Either have a limit or not. If you have one, use it, if not just make it permanent restrictions.

Italia won't have of because its bad mouthing wasps.

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I'm not siding, I'm telling you the reasoning behind it.
When Car Park C goes it should get interesting.

 

[Nick]

I'm not siding, I'm telling you the reasoning behind it.
When Car Park C goes it should get interesting.

You aren't explaining the reasoning.

You are saying if 6k football fans rocked up in the surrounding areas it wouldn't be fair on local residents, in which case why wasn't the limit set to 2k or something low or just a complete ban with every road a permit road?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

This was the content of the mail from ACL, the EST they refer to are Event Support Team.

xx from EST has contacted me regarding your query on the Residents Parking Scheme. EST are contracted by Ricoh Arena to provide and install the signage required to implement the Green Travel Plan.


As it stands we implement this for all match day fixtures, both CCFC and Wasps matches along with major events such as stadium concerts.


The Green Travel plan was a stipulation of the venue being able to hold large events and satisfy local residents and road network users prior to being built. We meet with the Ricoh Arena Monitoring Group on a regular basis in order to ensure that the events we are staging do not have an impact on local residents or those using the road network around the stadium.


As you have mentioned currently the actual attendance for CCFC match days is usually lower than the required attendance of 10,000 which is the attendance where the Green Travel Plan has to be implemented. However, there is a considerable walk up each match day which has been known to go in to the thousands therefore we cannot guarantee that the attendance will be lower when we submit the order for the RPS signage. We are responsible for ensuring that we comply with the Green Travel Plan and the local authority must be satisfied that we are doing so.


We have been monitoring attendances at CCFC fixtures over the past season and we will be reviewing several match day operations based on attendances prior to next season.


If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We have been monitoring attendances at CCFC fixtures over the past season and we will be reviewing several match day operations based on attendances prior to next season.

tbf the content doesn't seem overly unreasonable.

Also suggests if / when we stay down (and even if we go up!) they might change things next season. Sometimes these things are like an oil tanker in changing direction.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

This is what the Council said.

Thank you for your email regarding the attendance figures for the Ricoh Arena on event days . The attendance figures are gained as part of the green travel plan agreement which is separate from the council. They base their estimations on various information they receive and are responsible for making sure that the signage is correct and displaying the relevant times /dates.
This does not mean that there has to be an attendance of 10,000 fans before we can enforce the zone. It simply means that any event which has a capacity of 10,000 or more is likely to cause major traffic issues. For these instances we would then make sure that we prioritise these events.
Coventry city council civil enforcement officers will only patrol the zone if the signage is correct ..
In regards to the attendance figures for each event, I believe you will need to contact the Ricoh Arena as they control the off street parking around the stadium and can give you the relevant information you need.
If you have any other parking related questions/queries please feel free to contact me and I will do my best to resolve them .

 

[Nick]

This was the content of the mail from ACL, the EST they refer to are Event Support Team.

xx from EST has contacted me regarding your query on the Residents Parking Scheme. EST are contracted by Ricoh Arena to provide and install the signage required to implement the Green Travel Plan.


As it stands we implement this for all match day fixtures, both CCFC and Wasps matches along with major events such as stadium concerts.


The Green Travel plan was a stipulation of the venue being able to hold large events and satisfy local residents and road network users prior to being built. We meet with the Ricoh Arena Monitoring Group on a regular basis in order to ensure that the events we are staging do not have an impact on local residents or those using the road network around the stadium.


As you have mentioned currently the actual attendance for CCFC match days is usually lower than the required attendance of 10,000 which is the attendance where the Green Travel Plan has to be implemented. However, there is a considerable walk up each match day which has been known to go in to the thousands therefore we cannot guarantee that the attendance will be lower when we submit the order for the RPS signage. We are responsible for ensuring that we comply with the Green Travel Plan and the local authority must be satisfied that we are doing so.


We have been monitoring attendances at CCFC fixtures over the past season and we will be reviewing several match day operations based on attendances prior to next season.


If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

In which case, when it was clear for Checkatrade and the 2 x FA cup games was the parking limitation dropped?

We have had plenty of games that haven't even broken 6k.

Blackburn was 5300
Maidenhead 3370
Boreham Wood 2985
WBA U23 was 1429

I doubt we were going to get a walkup to take us over 10k.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

tbf the content doesn't seem overly unreasonable.

Also suggests if / when we stay down (and even if we go up!) they might change things next season. Sometimes these things are like an oil tanker in changing direction.

I don't think there's any need for a delay in changing direction though, its not as if the restriction notices have already been put up.

I'm more frustrated that it's the people making the money out of the parking that get to decide.

 

[Nick]

I don't think there's any need for a delay in changing direction though, its not as if the restriction notices have already been put up.

I'm more frustrated that it's the people making the money out of the parking that get to decide.

It should really be on the event. They say that if there is a capacity for over 10k, which means when we have only opened 1 stand for games this season it shouldn't have been enforced.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don't think there's any need for a delay in changing direction though, its not as if the restriction notices have already been put up.

I'm more frustrated that it's the people making the money out of the parking that get to decide.

I see it more as trends, and tbf wouldn't we have hoped that if doing well, crowds would have nudged up past 10k by now?

Agree with the latter point mind, it seems rather poacher turned gamekeeper although... your second mail says that they control the off street parking around the stadium (i.e. the car parks) so I'm not sure they have that much influence? Apologies if you've already popped it up (this thread gets spammed by the occasional spot of Wasps fanatacism ), but what was your follow-up mail to that one? Might be worth clarifying what they actually rely on the RIcoh Arena for before making decisions, and whether they do consult the football club?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I see it more as trends, and tbf wouldn't we have hoped that if doing well, crowds would have nudged up past 10k by now?

Agree with the latter point mind, it seems rather poacher turned gamekeeper although... your second mail says that they control the off street parking around the stadium (i.e. the car parks) so I'm not sure they have that much influence? Apologies if you've already popped it up (this thread gets spammed by the occasional spot of Wasps fanatacism ), but what was your follow-up mail to that one? Might be worth clarifying what they actually rely on the RIcoh Arena for before making decisions, and whether they do consult the football club?

I haven't sent a follow up, I don't think it will achieve anything. ACL have said they put the order in for the parking restrictions, and they obviously aren't bothered whether they get their estimated attendances correct, the Council say they just carry out enforcement based on the signs. I think it's wrong, but i don't think anything will change based on more emails from me.

The sentence about the off street parking in the email doesn't seem to be relevant to what I was asking, I don't know whether they meant to say on street parking, it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[italiahorse]

It should really be on the event. They say that if there is a capacity for over 10k, which means when we have only opened 1 stand for games this season it shouldn't have been enforced.

Can't be sure on the exact game but I know at least one game had no restrictions and I believe that was one restricted to the one stand.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Certainly at least 1 of the FA Cup games didn't have restrictions, which goes to show they can pick and choose which games need them on a flexible basis.