Wasps current finances & hope (19 Viewers)

duffer · May 10, 2018

italiahorse said:
Would Sisu take on the stadium if Wasps left though ?
They are saying that Wasps didn't pay enough and should pay a lot more. £30M more I think so a total of £48M
Are you saying that if Wasps go that Sisu should pay similar or are you saying they should try and get it for less which is what they have taken everybody to court about?
It does not stack up how it would work.

In my opinion, if it should ever happen that Wasps leave, I think CCFC should be offered the Ricoh on the same terms as Wasps (secretly) bought it, including the 250-year lease. My gut feel is that it probably is undervalue at that price, but the council and Wasps are claiming it's fair. Are you saying that we should have to pay more than Wasps, or that the Council undervalued it?

Anyway, the only other option for CCFC to buying it outright (if Wasps leave) is to keep paying rent at a similar level or to build somewhere else. I can't see that either of those latter alternatives make sense for SISU unless the rent is at a reasonable level and there's proper access to matchday and possibly other income streams.

So there was always a deal to be done here when the club came back, and if Wasps should ever go, there still is. Wasps have been perfectly clear that they can't (and won't) share any of their revenue with CCFC though, and given the state they're in, clearly that's true! Wasps are the blockers here, not the enablers...

duffer · May 10, 2018

italiahorse said:
He took £10M of the £35 million.
The other £25M was used to payoff the loan and improve the facilities at the Ricoh, an amount which he doesn't have.
Facts as always, not spin

Yes - he took £10 million back out of Wasps, and only put money (secretly) back in when the bond offer would have failed its terms. How on earth can you turn that into an appetite for further investment? That's more spin that Shane Warne at his peak mate!

italiahorse · May 10, 2018

duffer said:
In my opinion, if it should ever happen that Wasps leave, I think CCFC should be offered the Ricoh on the same terms as Wasps (secretly) bought it, including the 250-year lease. My gut feel is that it probably is undervalue at that price, but the council and Wasps are claiming it's fair. Are you saying that we should have to pay more than Wasps, or that the Council undervalued it?

Anyway, the only other option for CCFC to buying it outright (if Wasps leave) is to keep paying rent at a similar level or to build somewhere else. I can't see that either of those latter alternatives make sense for SISU unless the rent is at a reasonable level and there's proper access to matchday and possibly other income streams.

So there was always a deal to be done here when the club came back, and if Wasps should ever go, there still is. Wasps have been perfectly clear that they can't (and won't) share any of their revenue with CCFC though, and given the state they're in, clearly that's true! Wasps are the blockers here, not the enablers...

But if they are taking CCC to court for the Wasps deal how can they have a plan to get it for any less than they think Wasps should pay.
It all does not add up.

duffer · May 10, 2018

Anyway, apologies for deserting you here Italia - I've got to go for now. Your overtime bills are crippling Wasps, you know that, right.

Have a good evening mate, what's left of it anyway.

Nick · May 10, 2018

italiahorse said:
Sisu Observer, say no more.

Interesting you keep trying to play this.

What's factually incorrect?

You tried to make out the stuff about falsifying evidence was down to the Observer, failing to notice we were discussing it direct from the auditors.

Accounts Evidence falsified for auditors, you just say it's Les Reid / SISU. LAnd Registry says a company buys land, you are saying it's the SISU Observer.

You do just a good a job as the other Wasps employee Goode at trying to sweep it under the carpet.

italiahorse · May 10, 2018

duffer said:
Anyway, apologies for deserting you here Italia - I've got to go for now. Your overtime bills are crippling Wasps, you know that, right.

Have a good evening mate, what's left of it anyway.

Sweet dreams layful:

italiahorse · May 10, 2018

Nick said:
Interesting you keep trying to play this.

What's factually incorrect?

You tried to make out the stuff about falsifying evidence was down to the Observer, failing to notice we were discussing it direct from the auditors.

Accounts Evidence falsified for auditors, you just say it's Les Reid / SISU. LAnd Registry says a company buys land, you are saying it's the SISU Observer.

You do just a good a job as the other Wasps employee Goode at trying to sweep it under the carpet.

... and you and Tim Fisher are doing just as good a job.

chiefdave · May 10, 2018

italiahorse said:
Sisu Observer, say no more.

Senior Wasps figures buy proposed housing land near training base

Nick · May 10, 2018

italiahorse said:
... and you and Tim Fisher are doing just as good a job.

How's that then?

You didn't answer about what was factually incorrect about wasps buying the land?

Your default reply is sisu observer, like it was with the falsified evidence. You aren't on drunken wasps now, people won't fall for any old shite if you just say sisu

stupot07 · May 10, 2018

Have the cov telegraph run the story yet?

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Deleted member 5849 · May 11, 2018

stupot07 said:
Have the cov telegraph run the story yet?

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Right now.

Breaking news.

Deleted member 5849 · May 11, 2018

Wasps' accounts reveal "falsified" info and "uncertainty"

jimmyhillsfanclub · May 11, 2018

Coventry Telegraph - Wasps' accounts reveal "falsified" information and "uncertainty"

Beat me to it NW....

Nick · May 11, 2018

Wasn't expecting that, wonder why they took so long?

fernandopartridge · May 11, 2018

Is it the SISU Telegraph as well now Muhammad Saeed al-italiahorse?

stupot07 · May 11, 2018

Wasps Group, which runs the rugby club and the Ricoh Arena , overstated its earnings after declaring a £1.1million cash injection from “ultimate shareholder” Derek Richardson as revenue instead of as a capital contribution.

The report said: "During the year, WHL [Wasps Group] recognised income of £1.1m relating to a risk mitigation contract.

"Management considered that this arrangement was with an independent third party, and that there was commercial substance to the transaction.

"We focused on this transaction as our initial audit procedures identified that receipts from this arrangement came from Derek Richardson, the company's ultimate controlling party, and we had questions as to the commercial substance of the transaction.

"In the course of our audit enquiries into the above, we were provided with evidence which our testing revealed to have been falsified.

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Terry Gibson's perm · May 11, 2018

Quick italia ride in to save the day your team needs you

chiefdave · May 11, 2018

Nick said:
Wasn't expecting that, wonder why they took so long?

Maybe the payment for all the advertising was due today.

Terry Gibson's perm · May 11, 2018

chiefdave said:
Maybe the payment for all the advertising was due today.

Maybe they have told them they won’t be using them anymore as they have employed a one man pr machine in italia

Nick · May 11, 2018

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Maybe they have told them they won’t be using them anymore as they have employed a one man pr machine in italia

The interesting bit will be how much they push it on social media...

oldskyblue58 · May 11, 2018

about time ....... misses the real point that they have a cash flow deficit of 1.5m which is part of why the auditors highlighted the material uncertainty. Apart from that reasonably balanced and factual. Wasps are not about to cease to trade and do rely on the goodwill of Richardson to keep going.

On that goodwill by Richardson I think there has been some discussion on here about him taking his money (which he is entitled to do)

In July 2013 he was owed £3.831m. In the 2014 accounts it shows he put in £4.7m, and in 2015 £830k. During the 2016 accounts following the bond issue he took out £2m but also contributed £1.7m. in 2017 he net contributed £4.198m. At 30 June 2017 he was owed £12.855m and we know there is at least another 1.1m he has contributed in 2018 year end. This all of course highlights how dependent they are on him and increases risk but I think it is safe to say that whilst the intention may have been to reduce his exposure by drawing down bond monies he has actually had to put substantially more in. Can he keep doing that?

Nick · May 11, 2018

oldskyblue58 said:
about time ....... misses the real point that they have a cash flow deficit of 1.5m which is part of why the auditors highlighted the material uncertainty. Apart from that reasonably balanced and factual. Wasps are not about to cease to trade and do rely on the goodwill of Richardson to keep going.

On that goodwill by Richardson I think there has been some discussion on here about him taking his money (which he is entitled to do)

In July 2013 he was owed £3.831m. In the 2014 accounts it shows he put in £4.7m, and in 2015 £830k. During the 2016 accounts following the bond issue he took out £2m but also contributed £1.7m. in 2017 he net contributed £4.198m. At 30 June 2017 he was owed £12.855m and we know there is at least another 1.1m he has contributed in 2018 year end. This all of course highlights how dependent they are on him and increases risk but I think it is safe to say that whilst the intention may have been to reduce his exposure by drawing down bond monies he has actually had to put substantially more in. Can he keep doing that?

It's not really a good advert for the move that would save them and change everything if he still needs to prop them up though is it?

Deleted member 5849 · May 11, 2018

Nick said:
The interesting bit will be how much they push it on social media...

Well everybody can use the Share this facility if they choose...

Deleted member 5849 · May 11, 2018

oldskyblue58 said:
I think it is safe to say that whilst the intention may have been to reduce his exposure by drawing down bond monies he has actually had to put substantially more in. Can he keep doing that?

Not just can he, but does he want to? At what point does he tire of it?

oldskyblue58 · May 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Not just can he, but does he want to? At what point does he tire of it?

indeed

Think this highlights the financial stress not just at Wasps but in Rugby generally. I don't think the resources are there in most clubs to meet the increasing player demands. Many clubs it seems to me are cutting back, many are turning back to home grown talent. Not an expert in things rugby though others here would be able to give a better overview

Nick · May 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Well everybody can use the Share this facility if they choose...

There is that, I meant as opposed to when something is tweeted every 10 minutes to make sure people see it.

Captain Dart · May 11, 2018

oldskyblue58 said:
about time ....... misses the real point that they have a cash flow deficit of 1.5m which is part of why the auditors highlighted the material uncertainty. Apart from that reasonably balanced and factual. Wasps are not about to cease to trade and do rely on the goodwill of Richardson to keep going.

On that goodwill by Richardson I think there has been some discussion on here about him taking his money (which he is entitled to do)

In July 2013 he was owed £3.831m. In the 2014 accounts it shows he put in £4.7m, and in 2015 £830k. During the 2016 accounts following the bond issue he took out £2m but also contributed £1.7m. in 2017 he net contributed £4.198m. At 30 June 2017 he was owed £12.855m and we know there is at least another 1.1m he has contributed in 2018 year end. This all of course highlights how dependent they are on him and increases risk but I think it is safe to say that whilst the intention may have been to reduce his exposure by drawing down bond monies he has actually had to put substantially more in. Can he keep doing that?

His wealth is around £50 , or at least a few years ago it was..
Rich List 2014: 200-249 - Independent.ie

204 Derek Richardson €55m

Insurance, up €5m

Monaco-based insurance tycoon Richardson sold his 64 per cent stake in 123.ie to RSA as part of an €82m deal in 2010. He is involved in other online insurance ventures, as well as leading a buyout of London-based rugby club Wasps last year.

olderskyblue · May 11, 2018

oldskyblue58 said:
Thanks for the recommendation

We were staying at Hotel President ...... high on the hill to the right of Sorrento if looking from the sea. Really great views, Visited all the famous places like Pompeii, Herculaeneum, Positano, Isle of Capri, Vesuvius ........ i need a rest

Naples airport bit a night mare and the traffic

Sounds great. Il Nido's is about 2 miles further up the hill from your hotel. Overlooks the bay. Fantastic views while dining on their balcony.

pastythegreat · May 11, 2018

Deleted member 5849 said:
Well everybody can use the Share this facility if they choose...

I don't think he meant other people retweeting stories, more about the telegraph twitter putting the SAME news story out 15 times in 1 day just in case anybody hadn't read the fake story about CRFC and CCFC groundshare that never happened!

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italiahorse · May 11, 2018

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Quick italia ride in to save the day your team needs you

It's old news.

stupot07 · May 11, 2018

oldskyblue58 said:
indeed

Think this highlights the financial stress not just at Wasps but in Rugby generally. I don't think the resources are there in most clubs to meet the increasing player demands. Many clubs it seems to me are cutting back, many are turning back to home grown talent. Not an expert in things rugby though others here would be able to give a better overview

I know italia likes to pull out the increasing TV revenues card now and again, but we've seen from football, that increased TV revenues only flow in one direction - straight into agents and players pockets. Its seems quite obvious from the reports about image rights and stories from football aroubt image rights, that wasps and other rugby club's will be using 'image rights' as a way around the player wage cap.

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italiahorse · May 11, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Is it the SISU Telegraph as well now Muhammad Saeed al-italiahorse?

They usually give a balanced view unlike the Observer that give the details correctly but then embellish it with all the Sisu crap.

chiefdave · May 11, 2018

stupot07 said:
I know italia likes to pull out the increasing TV revenues card now and again, but we've seen from football, that increased TV revenues only flow in one direction - straight into agents and players pockets

Also it seems they may have topped out. There's 2 PL packages sat on the table unsold from the latest TV deal. The direction now seems to be more online following the lead of the US leagues such as the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL who all have their own dedicated channels available online.

hill83 · May 11, 2018

italiahorse said:
It's old news.

Still funny though

Moff · May 11, 2018

italiahorse said:
He took £10M of the £35 million.
The other £25M was used to payoff the loan and improve the facilities at the Ricoh, an amount which he doesn't have.
Facts as always, not spin

oldskyblue58 said:
about time ....... misses the real point that they have a cash flow deficit of 1.5m which is part of why the auditors highlighted the material uncertainty. Apart from that reasonably balanced and factual. Wasps are not about to cease to trade and do rely on the goodwill of Richardson to keep going.

On that goodwill by Richardson I think there has been some discussion on here about him taking his money (which he is entitled to do)

In July 2013 he was owed £3.831m. In the 2014 accounts it shows he put in £4.7m, and in 2015 £830k. During the 2016 accounts following the bond issue he took out £2m but also contributed £1.7m. in 2017 he net contributed £4.198m. At 30 June 2017 he was owed £12.855m and we know there is at least another 1.1m he has contributed in 2018 year end. This all of course highlights how dependent they are on him and increases risk but I think it is safe to say that whilst the intention may have been to reduce his exposure by drawing down bond monies he has actually had to put substantially more in. Can he keep doing that?

Italia it appears your quote that Richardson has put in 35 million, is incorrect. How long will the benefactor keep giving?

Wasps current finances & hope (19 Viewers)

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