Wasps downward spiral... (73 Viewers)

[shepardo01]

Regardless of anyones view of the rights or wrongs of the above, ……..is any of that in breach of the salary cap regs ? If it is then I’m all for punishing Wasps in the same way as Saracens. But at least compare apples with apples.

They can't afford to run the Rugby Club.
So have been gifted money to do what they can't afford to do and are applying for even more. They have spent money on players they can't afford, so have fielded a stronger team than they can afford.
They, in past seasons will have finished above teams that can afford their players, and may have cost them European places etc.
Pretty similar.

 

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[Kneeza]

I wonder what cov rugby fans and ownership thinks of this ? I reckon deep down they'd love wasps to fuck off

Deep down? You think?
They can get tae fuck.

 

[Moff]

Right now we don’t know what the £13m is for or indeed the structure / terms of any funding, if indeed it’s granted. However that doesn’t make it any less concerning for me as it doesn’t paint a good picture. Time will tell.

I guess other clubs will make their mind up once the full picture is clear.

As for comparisons with Saracens, they were caught paying players more than they should, to give them a competitive edge over other clubs to win trophies, if Wasps are found to be doing the same then of course throw the book. But at the moment I’m not sure how you can link £13m funding for something we don’t know the full picture of to the players salaries, that said I’m sure as eggs are eggs others here will disagree with me.

I didn’t say the offence is the same as Saracens.

If you are taking state aid to pay for something your business should be paying as normal businesses do, then it won’t be looked at favourably, especially when you seem to have cash reserves to have a competitive squad.

You could argue they are living outside their means whilst their competitors live within them. Almost as if they are cheating…….

 

[shepardo01]

You could argue they are living outside their means whilst their competitors live within them. Almost as if they are cheating…….

Yep!... more succinct way of saying what I said just above!

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

He didn't say salary cap regs, he said charge sheet.

As always. Denial and distraction.

Even if we all disagree Nick ….. say something constructive like your friends.

 

[oldfiver]

Right now we don’t know what the £13m is for or indeed the structure / terms of any funding, if indeed it’s granted. However that doesn’t make it any less concerning for me as it doesn’t paint a good picture. Time will tell.

I guess other clubs will make their mind up once the full picture is clear.

As for comparisons with Saracens, they were caught paying players more than they should, to give them a competitive edge over other clubs to win trophies, if Wasps are found to be doing the same then of course throw the book. But at the moment I’m not sure how you can link £13m funding for something we don’t know the full picture of to the players salaries, that said I’m sure as eggs are eggs others here will disagree with me.

It is important to know where the £13m is being used. If it is a top up to HSBC to pay Bondholders how do they intend to repay? Take out PL share sales, 2 franchise deals and other hand outs they are not trading with positive cash inflows.

It also leaves Compass and Manhatten where?

 

[Evo1883]

Did you bully him?

Haha no , never expected him to end up doing what he does

 

[Liquid Gold]

Haha no , never expected him to end up doing what he does

Did he sniff the seats?

Need the inside

 

[Evo1883]

Did he sniff the seats?

Need the inside

He's a canley lad aswell , his circle of friends are all nice lads tbh

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

I didn’t say the offence is the same as Saracens.

If you are taking state aid to pay for something your business should be paying as normal businesses do, then it won’t be looked at favourably, especially when you seem to have cash reserves to have a competitive squad.

You could argue they are living outside their means whilst their competitors live within them. Almost as if they are cheating…….

Right now we don’t know what the £13m is for (or certainly I don’t). You throw the definition of ‘state aid‘ around to sensationalise it but have the rugby club received state aid or is that just your interpretation ?

Yes you could argue they are living beyond their means but you could say that about any outfit that has received funding for something unrelated to the playing side.

It’s interesting how many have now jumped on the cheating topic because of a reported £13m funding application but not before (if I’ve missed it before then I apologise)

You consider it ‘almost’ cheating…. the rights and wrongs of how the stadium business is run is unrelated to the players …. I accept I will be in the minority here with that view ….. so be it

 

[shepardo01]

"Neils" on Drunken Wasps has called Mr Gilbert "scrubby" and complained to the BBC about "inaccuracies" in his article!!!!

 

[shepardo01]

From above;
"All that has surfaced so far is a scrubby little article by an extremely biased junior BBC hack. I await an answer to my complaint about his inaccuracies from the DG who probably doesn't even know he exists."

 

[clint van damme]

Right now we don’t know what the £13m is for (or certainly I don’t). You throw the definition of ‘state aid‘ around to sensationalise it but have the rugby club received state aid or is that just your interpretation ?

Yes you could argue they are living beyond their means but you could say that about any outfit that has received funding for something unrelated to the playing side.

It’s interesting how many have now jumped on the cheating topic because of a reported £13m funding application but not before (if I’ve missed it before then I apologise)

You consider it ‘almost’ cheating…. the rights and wrongs of how the stadium business is run is unrelated to the players …. I accept I will be in the minority here with that view ….. so be it

I agree it's very interesting how this is all being reported now.
Would Love to know why one of the CCC/Wasps client journalists is now putting the boot in though the other one is off licking his wounds

 

[Dubai-Dodger]

It is important to know where the £13m is being used. If it is a top up to HSBC to pay Bondholders how do they intend to repay?

completely agree …… if it’s anything to do with the bond in my view it smacks of desperation …… but it could equally be totally unrelated, repayment regardless is concerning but we just don’t know enough

many on here have convinced themselves Wasps are being gifted £13m …. But they haven’t.

 

[clint van damme]

completely agree …… if it’s anything to do with the bond in my view it smacks of desperation …… but it could equally be totally unrelated, repayment regardless is concerning but we just don’t know enough

many on here have convinced themselves Wasps are being gifted £13m …. But they haven’t.

Tonight's top story, wasps are struggling to pay their bond.
In unrelated news, waspz have asked the local authorities for 13 million.

 

[joemercersaces]

This lad is great value:

Re: Message from Stephen Vaughan addressing some supporters concerns
Shugs 17 June, 2022 10:06
So, ignoring the 7.5m as we don’t know what that is how does that add up to £15m. I get that a very small minority of CCFC fans want Wasps to fail. But made up figures, blasé assumptions and rumour won’t do it.

Can those that know how set up a quick poll asking Cov fans if they want a wasps to fail? My own mini poll among the 3 of us who go each week is 100% do

 

[joemercersaces]

Oh yeah I have no doubt they will get bailed out somehow with some dodgy scheme.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

"Neils" on Drunken Wasps has called Mr Gilbert "scrubby" and complained to the BBC about "inaccuracies" in his article!!!!

I am sure that Wasps can put a representative up to explain all if they feel they are being treated badly.

 

[CCFC54321]

If its rumoured HSBC are bailing the shit bags out why didn’t they get the additional £13m from HSBC as well?

 

[oldfiver]

completely agree …… if it’s anything to do with the bond in my view it smacks of desperation …… but it could equally be totally unrelated, repayment regardless is concerning but we just don’t know enough

many on here have convinced themselves Wasps are being gifted £13m …. But they haven’t.

If it is not connected to the Bond one must assume they have raised £35m elsewhere?

Add £13m emergency loan that's £48m new borrowing - I would like to see the loan term sheet on how they are going to repay this

 

[fernandopartridge]

From above;
"All that has surfaced so far is a scrubby little article by an extremely biased junior BBC hack. I await an answer to my complaint about his inaccuracies from the DG who probably doesn't even know he exists."

What a wanker he is. The council has basically confirmed it to be true ffs

 

[joemercersaces]

Right now we don’t know what the £13m is for (or certainly I don’t). You throw the definition of ‘state aid‘ around to sensationalise it but have the rugby club received state aid or is that just your interpretation ?

Yes you could argue they are living beyond their means but you could say that about any outfit that has received funding for something unrelated to the playing side.

It’s interesting how many have now jumped on the cheating topic because of a reported £13m funding application but not before (if I’ve missed it before then I apologise)

You consider it ‘almost’ cheating…. the rights and wrongs of how the stadium business is run is unrelated to the players …. I accept I will be in the minority here with that view ….. so be it

No mate, we’ve all known for years that the council and Wasps have had a completely dodgy relationship and conspired together to shaft CCFC and Cov Rugby.

 

[Travs]

Collusion with CCC as detailed in this thread.

Broken promises about not working to the detriment of the cities existing sports teams.

Broken promises on regeneration of the North side of the city.

Colluding with a syndicate trying to take over CCFC, which many supporters feel would have been even more disastrous for the club.

Raising finances via a bond which they clearly are struggling to pay.

Hostile take over of a local village sports and community facility.

That's off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

Of course, some ofthe above was facilitated by our owners and their actions.

But if you thing saracens bunging their players a few quid more then fair enough.

The point is.... as much as all of the above are (at best) broken promises, and at worst a complete misdirection of Coventry taxpayers money and possible fraud????

....none of them are really within the remit of the RFU or whoever it is to punish Wasps for. As far is i'm aware Saracens were caught breaking the RFU regulations (don't quote me on that!)...... i'm not sure where the RFU can go about stepping in on any of the above....

Of course it would be great if they did/could.

 

[oldskyblue58]

So what do we know

Interesting that acl companies are the only ones with charges from compass. Wasps holdings and finance don't.

Each of acl , acl 2006 wasps holdings and wasps finance secure the bond

Insolvency value of the lease would be well below current value.

Wasps finance the biggest creditor of acl. Acl owes wasps finance, then it is wasps finance that owes the bondholders.

Do we know where all the assets currently are. It is completely legal transfer assets around group companies especially if the security not affected

Accounts for ACL acl2006 & iec not filed and all could still be struck off but the Crown would seize any assets and any creditors would likely challenge the striking off- so not going to be allowed to happen

Default notice issued by bond trustees which is 30 day notice of action.

All assets are revalued in an insolvency and sold to the highest or preferred bidder. Liabilities are paid off at a discount.

Wasps not acl as far as has been said have applied for 13m assistance from WMCA.

These are serious financial people involved in this. They are not stupid. There is a plan.

Just thoughts it might not mean anything. Could easily be completely wrong I don't know.

 

[mr_monkey]

The point is.... as much as all of the above are (at best) broken promises, and at worst a complete misdirection of Coventry taxpayers money and possible fraud????

....none of them are really within the remit of the RFU or whoever it is to punish Wasps for. As far is i'm aware Saracens were caught breaking the RFU regulations (don't quote me on that!)...... i'm not sure where the RFU can go about stepping in on any of the above....

Of course it would be great if they did/could.

Wrong account?

 

[Travs]

Wrong account?

What?

Are you inferring that i am someone else and actually like/want Wasps here?

Take a look through my posts on this thread.... the sad fact is, i'd rather Wasps go tits-up than CCFC make it to the Premier League.

My post above was in response to calls for Wasps to be punished for the misdemeanours quoted above.... as far as i can see, the only people who can punish them for that list are Coventry Council themselves (some chance), the Coventry voters by getting the current council out (some chance again), or the investors and backers of Wasps (most likely the best chance)...... i don't see that the RFU have any say in it (much like the EFL and their fit & proper owners tests appear to be a waste of time)

 

[Nick]

Even if we all disagree Nick ….. say something constructive like your friends.

What's the point? All you do is try and deflect or move the goalposts. Failing that, just claim it's made up.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If its rumoured HSBC are bailing the shit bags out why didn’t they get the additional £13m from HSBC as well?

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If its rumoured HSBC are bailing the shit bags out why didn’t they get the additional £13m from HSBC as well?

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

 

[Philosoraptor]

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

Will it be a final demand?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If its rumoured HSBC are bailing the shit bags out why didn’t they get the additional £13m from HSBC as well?

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

 

[Philosoraptor]

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

Whoa, I am seeing in triple vision, am I drunk?

 

[covmark]

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

You sure they're making a statement?

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

 

[Philosoraptor]

You sure they're making a statement?

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

Three of them I assume.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I’m told they will be making a statement in line with their earlier statement at the end of the month

If you’ve got insider info - which way i they expecting to go with this? They going bust or are we getting our hopes up?