Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (30 Viewers)

[lewys33]

Interesting thought. Wasps and coventry rugby combining....... Don't quite know how I would take that. I used to be a big cov Rugby fan, now just go to the odd game - but this would be a tough call. Would much prefer crfc pushing themselves up and buying half the Ricoh with ccfc!

 

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[Moff]

I spoke about it's business case. The emotional and moral stance is another thing I didn't address, but shall when I get to work. However, don't put words in my mouth. I played for Coventry Rugby Club; and still have - for example - a signed copy of David Duckham's last game programme for the club hanging up in my house. I wouldn't wish for any harm to come to them whatsoever. But that doesn't stop me taking a business judgement on Wasps' intent; whether I like it or not

Fair enough MMM. You know I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth, its just their were salient points in your post that I felt were relevant to some of what I expressed, but not all.

I dont deny there is a business case, but feel the hypocricy of it stinks a little. The Council/ACL stated many times how much the football club should belong within its City boundary's and yet are happy to grab the money off a Club from another City to play here. It seems franchise sport suits them when it pays.

You have my great respect for being an ex Coventry Rugby Player...I must admit you do have the air of an egg chaser, a gentleman off the pitch, a raving lunatic on it

 

[Moff]

This is a wholly different situation to the CCFC move to Northampton. To compare the two is to compare apples to Bombay Mix...

They are both snacks.

Just because they have moved before, doesn't necessarily make it right to keep moving them does it? and yet further and further from their traditional fanbase.

 

[torchomatic]

Despite what he says it's no different at all. I smell hypocrisy.

They are both snacks.

Just because they have moved before, doesn't necessarily make it right to keep moving them does it? and yet further and further from their traditional fanbase.

 

[Moff]

No-one here approves of Wasps or anyone else relocating here, but surely no-one in their right mind would suggest that people should be just as up in arms about it as when we were taken to Sixifelds.

Its the hypocricy Otis. Try to understand that, and we can just agree to disagree.

 

[Snouty72]

Regarding the rugby, what are the realistic chances of Coventry getting the the prem in the foreseeable future? Probably slim as the set up in rugby seems to limit this. However, If wasps was to become Coventry Wasps (as a merger) thus creating an identity with the local community. Cov RFU would continue to play a team in the lower leagues as they are already doing but as amateurs. Identity remains, new capital is brought in the city. Butts would probably be kept for reserve team fixtures, Cov amateurs fixtures, Wasps women and training facitlites for the rugby.

It is feasible.

And ultimately, it could benefit all the cov area including CCFC.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Questions

- does a change of ownership of ACL stop CCFC playing at the Ricoh?
- does a change stop income generation for CCFC at the Ricoh?
- Is it necessary to own the stadium or all or part of ACL to benefit from income streams?
- would a longer term deal still be available to CCFC at the Ricoh?
- could CCFC work in partnership with new owners at the Ricoh?
- Could CCFC become a joint venture with new owners at the Ricoh?
- Would it now be put up or shut up about a new stadium?
- is there opportunities for changes in ownership of CCFC because of this?
- does a change at the Ricoh mean a more favourable approach to planning permission for a new stadium by CCC?

thoughts ?

Fans are understandably confused, concerned even angry at the thought of Wasps being in control at the Ricoh - it was always thought that it would be CCFC in control eventually. The Ricoh wasn't just built as a stadium but the intention was always that the Ricoh would be the home of CCFC. Things change and so do intentions, but has anyone said CCFC can't play there?

It would be interesting to hear from TF/JS/SW on this. They after all have repeatedly said that any return was short term and that Plan A was a brand new stadium - If ACL or its stakeholders get a long term offer from elsewhere should they ignore it and knock it back when they are told CCFC owners do not want to be there, when the chairman of the club has a prime focus on acquiring land and building a new stadium?

I do not think a deal is done on this yet but I also do not think it has suddenly cropped up, nor is it empty rhetoric they don't need to call SISU's bluff because the club has returned already, if it were empty in nature then it could have been denied past experience of no comment from these parties usually means something is going on.

I can not help thinking that the CCFC owners have misjudged things hugely over the last 3 years.

Right now I am feeling very troubled by the direction our club is taking - but perhaps there are opportunities here...........

 

[Nick]

Regarding the rugby, what are the realistic chances of Coventry getting the the prem in the foreseeable future? Probably slim as the set up in rugby seems to limit this. However, If wasps was to become Coventry Wasps (as a merger) thus creating an identity with the local community. Cov RFU would continue to play a team in the lower leagues as they are already doing but as amateurs. Identity remains, new capital is brought in the city. Butts would probably be kept for reserve team fixtures, Cov amateurs fixtures, Wasps women and training facitlites for the rugby.

It is feasible.

And ultimately, it could benefit all the cov area including CCFC.

Seriously? As Coventry Football Club might not get into the Prem we should move another club in and sack ours off.

 

[Moff]

I can not help thinking that the CCFC owners have misjudged things hugely over the last 3 years.

All our problems so easily summed up in one short sentence.

 

[torchomatic]

WHy not? We expected the "football community" to share our outrage but the appalling figure for the petition showed that basically people don't care as long as it doesn't affect their club. As for me, couldn't really give a flying F for Wasps or rugby in general because it's crap, however this may affect something I do care about which is Coventry City. I don't really care about the past and ACL, CCC and SISU and all the bad blood. The stadium should be offered to the Football club not a nomadic rugby team with no ties to our area.

As Moff said, it's the hypocrisy of not only ACL and the Council but people on here too.

No-one here approves of Wasps or anyone else relocating here, but surely no-one in their right mind would suggest that people should be just as up in arms about it as when we were taken to Sixifelds.

 

[Moff]

Seriously? As Coventry Football Club might not get into the Prem we should move another club in and sack ours off.

Nearly as ridiculous as the move Nuneaton to the Ricoh ideas when we were in Northampton.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

Well .. If SISU been more professional and business like and had played it right by making a realistic offers, we would not have The Wasps scoping around.

Ok SISU.. Chop! Chop! ... time to build a new stadium in Coventry as you promised.

If Wasps do get a share, can't see the CCC rejecting any of SISU's stadium plans for CCFC to build in Coventry.


I can't see why our fans did not expect this could happen instead of blindly calling the Ricoh a white elephant without football. Even if it isn't going to be the Wasps it would been someone else.

Believe it or not buying the Ricoh is a very good investment and if it ever came on sale publically it would be very interesting to see what offers they would get.

I am wondering for the fact that a new train station being built at the stadium has swayed the Wasps interest as it may make the stadium easily accessible for all Rugger fans to get there from London.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Can't we all agree to agree that we oppose the acl-wasps idea?

The opportunity we have is to at long last achieve fan unity. The Trust is now the only fans' group so they have a great opportunity to bring fans together and make our voice heard loud and clear.

 

[torchomatic]

Maybe, you're right. Wasps can have the Ricoh and CCFC can build one where we can get income 365 rather than 23.

Well .. If SISU been more professional and business like and had played it right by making a realistic offers, we would not have The Wasps scoping around.

Ok SISU.. Chop! Chop! ... time to build a new stadium in Coventry as you promised.

If Wasps do get a share, can't see the CCC rejecting any of SISU's plans for CCFC to build in Coventry.


I can't see why our fans did not expect this could happen instead of blindly calling the Ricoh a white elephant without football. Even if it isn't going to be the Wasps it would be someone else.

Believe it or not buying the Ricoh is a very good investment and if it ever came on sale publically it would be very interesting to see what offers they would get.

I am wondering the fact that a new train station is built at the stadium has swayed the Wasps interest as it may make the stadium easily accessible for Rugger fans to get there from London.

 

[Snouty72]

Seriously? As Coventry Football Club might not get into the Prem we should move another club in and sack ours off.

That's not what I'm saying.

Rugby is a different beast to football. CRFC would retain its identity and tradition. I live in London and all the teams have done this down here Yet London Irish amateurs, Wasps etc have still got a very strong local presence.

Rugby at a top level is more of a franchise. Look at the way all the London clubs are dispersing. I'm saying that Wasps could move to Coventry without any major adverse affect.

Just my opinion.

 

[duffer]

They are both snacks.

Just because they have moved before, doesn't necessarily make it right to keep moving them does it? and yet further and further from their traditional fanbase.

That's my opinion too, fwiw. The more I think about this, the more wrong it feels. I detest SISU and all of their new stadium nonsense with a vengance, but if this is a negotiating strategy by ACL and CCC then it's a crass one. If it's actually serious, then to me it's pretty outrageous.

I wouldn't expect ACL to sit still whilst SISU continue to threaten via the courts and make daft noises about a new stadium, but similarly I wouldn't expect the council to sanction a move that supports a franchise team into the area at the expense of two local teams, and the franchise side's local supporters.

If ACL are looking for a new partner or partners and SISU aren't willing to come to the table then fair enough; but they need to find someone who has the ability to bring something of value to the City, rather than something that is more likely to damage it.

 

[torchomatic]

What pisses me off is all the "good business sense" crap that is banded about. We were told that the Ricoh was NOT FOR SALE but it seems that it IS for sale as long as it's NOT to the local football team. It's apparently OK to flog it to a franchise team 100 miles distant.

Can't we all agree to agree that we oppose the acl-wasps idea?

The opportunity we have is to at long last achieve fan unity. The Trust is now the only fans' group so they have a great opportunity to bring fans together and make our voice heard loud and clear.

 

[torchomatic]

"local presence". Not for much longer, mate.

That's not what I'm saying.

Rugby is a different beast to football. CRFC would retain its identity and tradition. I live in London and all the teams have done this down here Yet London Irish amateurs, Wasps etc have still got a very strong local presence.

Rugby at a top level is more of a franchise. Look at the way all the London clubs are dispersing. I'm saying that Wasps could move to Coventry without any major adverse affect.

Just my opinion.

 

[stupot07]

I thought ACL said it's not for sale?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[torchomatic]

Exactly. If it's going to happen then give the opportunity to Cov Rugby Club. Local teams.

I wouldn't expect ACL to sit still whilst SISU continue to threaten via the courts and make daft noises about a new stadium, but similarly I wouldn't expect the council to sanction a move that supports a franchise team into the area at the expense of two local teams, and the franchise side's local supporters.

.

 

[Monners]

Regarding the rugby, what are the realistic chances of Coventry getting the the prem in the foreseeable future? Probably slim as the set up in rugby seems to limit this. However, If wasps was to become Coventry Wasps (as a merger) thus creating an identity with the local community. Cov RFU would continue to play a team in the lower leagues as they are already doing but as amateurs. Identity remains, new capital is brought in the city. Butts would probably be kept for reserve team fixtures, Cov amateurs fixtures, Wasps women and training facitlites for the rugby.

It is feasible.

And ultimately, it could benefit all the cov area including CCFC.

I think this is what happens in Wales with the "regional" clubs being at the top end of the game, and the "old" clubs still in existence further down the pyramid. A lot of the old clubs are really struggling to maintain any kind of existence, never mind being competitive and bringing players through - attendances have dropped markedly. CRFC would be in real trouble I think.

The point has been made earlier that there is instant local competition if Wasps move, in the form of Northampton and Leicester - two of the biggest and well supported clubs in the country. Also, the Twickers games keep the old London rivals in the mix. Wasps do not have a large traditonal support (I know this from the benefit of living in a Rugby town through friends who are Saints fans), as part of the plan will be to capture local interest in wathcing a top Premiership club - Rugby is selling it's soul faster than football it seems - and cash strapped Local Authorities seem to like the look of the pound signs!

I hope SIsu are in on this in some way (which I doubt), as if not our CLub is royaly stuffed otherwise.

 

[Cov_CBS]

So to save me reading through 27 pages, has the Ricoh been sold or is it just a rumour that talks are taking place ... or neither?!

 

[torchomatic]

Well, it's a rumour that neither ACL or CCC have denied in their statements.

So to save me reading through 27 pages, has the Ricoh been sold or is it just a rumour that talks are taking place ... or neither?!

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Well, it's a rumour that neither ACL or CCC have denied in their statements.

Have Wasps confirmed it then...?

 

[Monners]

What pisses me off is all the "good business sense" crap that is banded about. We were told that the Ricoh was NOT FOR SALE but it seems that it IS for sale as long as it's NOT to the local football team. It's apparently OK to flog it to a franchise team 100 miles distant.

Sisu don't seem to want to offer anything for the Ricoh or ACL though. If money is on the table in the form of a formal offer, then one would have thought that it would be considered. If Wasps, or anyone else for that matter, make such an offer then it is up to Sisu to either work with them, place a counter offer, act as a tenant, or build a new stadium - I would argue that the first two make sense more then the latter two. Problem is though, is that Sisu inspire little in the way of confidence in me in regard to putting the long term interests of the Club and it's fans to the fore.

I don't like being stiched up by either CCC or Sisu, but this is the realithy of modern life - money rules - people don't matter

 

[MichaelCCFC]

What pisses me off is all the "good business sense" crap that is banded about. We were told that the Ricoh was NOT FOR SALE but it seems that it IS for sale as long as it's NOT to the local football team. It's apparently OK to flog it to a franchise team 100 miles distant.

So let's do something about it. acl-sisu successfully created division among fans over sixfields so let's not repeat that and instead be united as fans in saying we are 100% opposed to the acl-wasps idea and we want acl-ccc to drop it. It was fans who created the pressure for the ricoh return (source: Mr S Pressley) and stopping wasps playing in Coventry would be a doddle compared to that

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

I thought ACL said it's not for sale?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Not for sale when our owners make silly offers, then try and distress the stadium owners by not paying rent, then moving the club 30 miles away and finally take them to court lose and still proceed with an appeal on appeal whilst being allowed back by the stadium owners.

Now don't you think there is a major trust issue here???

Oh and did ACL not say that they will reconsider if a reasonable offer came on the table... well it looks like it just has and so happens it's not SISU.

What I am angry with is not ACL dealing with WASPs but the fact that business wise SISU blew this BIG time and now we going to lose the city stadium to another London outfit other than what the stadium was originally made for.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

Exactly. If it's going to happen then give the opportunity to Cov Rugby Club. Local teams.

If WASPS do get it.. I imagine not long after Cov Rugby Club will ground share.

 

[duffer]

Having had a quick read through some Wasps forums, it seems pretty clear most of their fans aren't keen on the idea. There's talk about attendances dropping from an average of 7,000 at Wycombe, to 4,000 at the Ricoh. 4,000! To put this in perspective, even if every fan who currently goes to Cov RFC switched allegiences to Wasps (they won't), that would still only get them 1,500 more fans.

Something else that popped out at me. Wasps are clearly in negotiation with more than one stadium. It suits their management just fine to have everyone believe that there's a prospect of a deal at the Ricoh, it's a useful chip in the talks with other stadiums. Similarly, it puts pressure on SISU to come to the table with ACL, which is in ACL's interest too. The only people this doesn't suit is are the fans of both clubs (and Cov RFC) - who are being treated with utter disrespect by all of the parties involved.

 

[Nick]

Well, it's a rumour that neither ACL or CCC have denied in their statements.

They won't deny it, it is applying pressure and it will still be spun to be SISU's fault

 

[torchomatic]

Reading some of the posts on here I can see it's working a treat already.

They won't deny it, it is applying pressure and it will still be spun to be SISU's fault

 

[Monners]

So let's do something about it. acl-sisu successfully created division among fans over sixfields so let's not repeat that and instead be united as fans in saying we are 100% opposed to the acl-wasps idea and we want acl-ccc to drop it. It was fans who created the pressure for the ricoh return (source: Mr S Pressley) and stopping wasps playing in Coventry would be a doddle compared to that

Not sure it would be a doddle Michael. If the price is right and ACL/CCC sell, then what can CCFC fans do about it? Will fans of other Rugby clubs care if Wasps move? I doubt it, as it is not unprecedented. Rugby competes with football for cash from TV, fans etc.. There is the Rugby WOrld Cup next year in this country - huge opportunity to expand the game, so the RFU would be all over this to showcase the game and seize on a chance to expand into the West Midlands, with Saints and Leicester covering the East.

 

[torchomatic]

www.fixrugby.com I can see it now.

Not sure it would be a doddle Michael. If the price is right and ACL/CCC sell, then what can CCFC fans do about it? Will fans of other Rugby clubs care if Wasps move? I doubt it, as it is not unprecedented. Rugby competes with football for cash from TV, fans etc.. There is the Rugby WOrld Cup next year in this country - huge opportunity to expand the game, so the RFU would be all over this to shwocase th game and seize on a chance to expand into the West Midlands, with Saints and Leicester covering the East.

 

[OyJimmy]

Sisu are probably paying Wasps to buy it, so that they can buy it from them.....

 

[duffer]

They won't deny it, it is applying pressure and it will still be spun to be SISU's fault

In fairness mate, the fact that the club don't have a share of the stadium already is absolutely SISU's fault.

They could have negotiated honestly for a share in ACL at any point in their tenure, but decided instead to leave it for a few years, and completely botched the deal when they did finally come to the table. They're still pushing for a court resolution when they should be talking, right now, today, to the Council and ACL and trying to repair the relationship.

I'm dead against the Wasps thing for a number of reasons - but the position we're in right now is because of SISU's bull-headed stupidity and their ability to piss off pretty much everyone they come across in business.