Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (3 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

If disappearing and being amalgamated with Wasps is a "ground share" then yep, you're right.

If WASPS do get it.. I imagine not long after Cov Rugby Club will ground share.

 

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[Samo]

Anyway, who made you the Queen and how do I earn my stripes?

Quality!

 

[covcity4life]

i wonder how many people would still support the council if they did this?

 

[torchomatic]

Better ask their communications man.

Jack, any ideas?

i wonder how many people would still support the council if they did this?

 

[Warwickhunt]

Good point. It wasn't that long ago AL was saying publicly that "they would consider any serious offer" in response to SISU's repeated "the Ricoh is not for sale" line. Looks like someone from the Wasps heard her and sees an opportunity.

SISU either better stop fooking around and get in front of the council with some serious intentions of buying ACL or get in front of the council with some serious intentions of them buying some land in Coventry, not the Coventry "area" and get on with building our own ground or get the fook out of our club.

Deliberately loosing the JR (as you put it) has only backed them further into a corner. It's time to get serious or get gone.

Why not in the Coventry Area? CCC will have defeated there main objection if they allow Wasps into the Ricoh, So we would have two Rugby Grounds in the City so why cannot we have two football grounds????

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Not sure it would be a doddle Michael. If the price is right and ACL/CCC sell, then what can CCFC fans do about it? Will fans of other Rugby clubs care if Wasps move? I doubt it, as it is not unprecedented. Rugby competes with football for cash from TV, fans etc.. There is the Rugby WOrld Cup next year in this country - huge opportunity to expand the game, so the RFU would be all over this to showcase the game and seize on a chance to expand into the West Midlands, with Saints and Leicester covering the East.

Plenty of people said nothing could be done about the ntfc move and fans had to choose between doing nothing or campaigning against it, which in the end succeeded. Exactly the same choice here - we can do nothing (or even worse, just bicker among ourselves) or we can send a clear message to acl-ccc that we oppose this idea and if they pursue it we will fight, just as we fought for the Ricoh return. I believe 100% in keeping things peaceful and lawful - dignity and pride proved to be far stronger weapons than other ideas that were suggested - but campaigning in Coventry, especially with ccc being a democratic organisation, is much easier to organise than the sixfields campaign.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The fact is if our owners keep up with the argument that the current deal is temporary and they will build their own stadium why wouldn't the ACL look at other options regarding the arena.

It would be a real shame if wasps bought it, however, far better for the council and the local area/community having the stadium used with 10k-20k supporters going regular than to be sat empty/derelict.

 

[Monners]

Plenty of people said nothing could be done about the ntfc move and fans had to choose between doing nothing or campaigning against it, which in the end succeeded. Exactly the same choice here - we can do nothing (or even worse, just bicker among ourselves) or we can send a clear message to acl-ccc that we oppose this idea and if they pursue it we will fight, just as we fought for the Ricoh return. I believe 100% in keeping things peaceful and lawful - dignity and pride proved to be far stronger weapons than other ideas that were suggested - but campaigning in Coventry, especially with ccc being a democratic organisation, is much easier to organise than the sixfields campaign.

I can see what you are saying Michael of course, but the move to Sixfields is different. It was not about money, it was about football fans and could be seen by all (other clubs fans included) to be fundementally wrong - therefore a clear message (or aim if you will) for any protest. This deal/idea is purely about making money, and in the long term, CCC shifting the burden of ACL. Wasn't there local elections in Cov last year? So good timing for local representative as no electoins to worry about in the immediate term.

I didn't say that any protest is futile, as history shows that protest does work, but I don't see it as a doddle as you described it.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Sisu are probably paying Wasps to buy it, so that they can buy it from them.....

crossed my mind as well not that SISU are paying them but more like they had some sort of financial tie with them

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

i wonder how many people would still support the council if they did this?

I would not say I support them but lets be realistic here, SISU made numerous ridiculous offers and threats and they got rejected but in come's the Wasps and have probably made a realistic offer in a more business like manner in which CCC/ACL feel they can probably do a deal with which will benefit the city tax payers.

Can you seriously blame them for this???

To be honest, majority of the people who would not support this is the sky blue fans. Can't see the non footballing adult population of Coventry being to concerned as long as the tax payers benefit and they don't lose the stadium on the cheap which to them would be unacceptable.

 

[albatross]

Standing back and looking at it without a supporters hat on...


1) The Ricoh is in Demand.... so much for the worthless business that SISU wanted for nothing. WASPS seem to have clearly identified why this city and stadium is of interest... SISU also know this but now seemingly not be the only show in town so need to get on and do a deal?

2) Coventry and the surrounding area has a massive population that is crying out for sporting success. Circa 30K for JPT semi, 27K of a friday night televised match after over a decade of disappointment. I think WASPS would pull in bigger crowds than the average 7K stated , local derby matches between leicester and Northampton, European Club Rugby...... No top flight rugby team in Coventry or Birmingham areas ....?

3) WASPS have seen this potential as did SISU but the stakes have just got higher for SISU. May be put up or shut up time for them if they don't have the money to invest in the stadium then how can the build a new one or a new team? If WASPS can afford at least part ownership then a business savvy hedge fund should surely be able to compete. If not then CCFC are going nowhere.

I do feel for COV RFC and as a supporter I don't see how they would recover, there is just too bi a gap between WASPS and Cov,

Cov RFC (and CCFC for that matter) is a prime example of repeated mismanagement and are suffering as a consequence. COV RFC Once the best team in the land with half the England team stepping out for them to where they are to day. Just look at leicester and Northampton today. ... truly unthinkable 30 yrs ago

Both the Football club and Rugby club have poorly served the loyal people of Coventry... Maybe there needs to be some changes as neither football or premier rugby will be successful or sustainable on sub 10K gates

 

[fernandopartridge]

They're not moving from Middlesex now. They were playing at Loftus Road until they moved to Wycombe's ground. Back in 2006, Wasps were looking at spending circa. £5m to build a new stand to increase capacity there to 15K; then about three years ago, were looking at a brand new build; again in the Wycombe area. That's why the 'investment' in the Ricoh at the values we can all conclude makes sense.

The haven't been with stable home for ages - started in Shepards Bush and renting places in and around London until the '20s when they settled in Sudbury, then to Loftus Road with the mid-minutes Christopher Wright (Chrysalis) involvement. I bring your attention to their fan's current 'trek'....

http://www.rome2rio.com/s/Sudbury-London/London-Wasps

This is a wholly different situation to the CCFC move to Northampton. To compare the two is to compare apples to Bombay Mix...

Not really. It's two teams playing well away from what they'd usually consider home.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

The fact is if our owners keep up with the argument that the current deal is temporary and they will build their own stadium why wouldn't the ACL look at other options regarding the arena.

It would be a real shame if wasps bought it, however, far better for the council and the local area/community having the stadium used with 10k-20k supporters going regular than to be sat empty/derelict.

Exactly!!

 

[covcity4life]

I would not say I support them but lets be realistic here, SISU made numerous ridiculous offers and threats and they got rejected but in come's the Wasps and have probably made a realistic offer in a more business like manner in which CCC/ACL feel they can probably do a deal with which will benefit the city tax payers.

Can you seriously blame them for this???

To be honest, majority of the people who would not support this is the sky blue fans. Can't see the non footballing adult population of Coventry being to concerned as long as the tax payers benefit and they don't lose the stadium on the cheap which would to them be unacceptable.

but sisu taking the club to northampton is heinous

council kicking club out of city is just good business


LMAO

 

[Jack Griffin]

What pisses me off is all the "good business sense" crap that is banded about. We were told that the Ricoh was NOT FOR SALE but it seems that it IS for sale as long as it's NOT to the local football team. It's apparently OK to flog it to a franchise team 100 miles distant.

The council have said a sale can be contemplated if trust can be rebuilt.. why do you recycle this lie about it not being for sale?

the acting leader of Coventry City Council has not ruled out the Sky Blues owning the Ricoh Arena in the future.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/council-chief-need-time-rebuild-7651892

So wouldn't it be desirable for CCFC to rebuild that trust and move ahead on a purchase?

 

[torchomatic]

And offering the Ricoh to a rugby team from London are solid foundations for that trust "rebuilding", are they?

So wouldn't it be desirable for CCFC to rebuild that trust and move ahead on a purchase?

 

[Otis]

Why couldn't CCFC and Wasps jointly own the stadium ?

Only be happy with that if it was Coventry Wasps and then only if Cov rugby club was integrated into the club and only if Cov rugby and their fans are totally onboard with it.

 

[Astute]

Only be happy with that if it was Coventry Wasps and then only if Cov rugby club was integrated into the club and only if Cov rugby and their fans are totally onboard with it.

Not happy with it at all and never will be.

 

[Otis]

WHy not? We expected the "football community" to share our outrage but the appalling figure for the petition showed that basically people don't care as long as it doesn't affect their club. As for me, couldn't really give a flying F for Wasps or rugby in general because it's crap, however this may affect something I do care about which is Coventry City. I don't really care about the past and ACL, CCC and SISU and all the bad blood. The stadium should be offered to the Football club not a nomadic rugby team with no ties to our area.

As Moff said, it's the hypocrisy of not only ACL and the Council but people on here too.

I'm confused. Moff was complaining that it was a lot quieter on here than when we were removed and plonked in Northampton. Does being quieter equate to hypocrisy?

And you have to try and look at this with dispassionate view. Me personally, I hate the idea of Wasps here and would be totally opposed to the move. But the bottom line is that if Sisu are saying they are going off to build their own stadium, ACL need to look at bringing someone else in. Part of it is a sports arena at the end of the day.

If ACL are looking to maximise the use of the facility then a big player would be the way to go. This doesn't make it right from a moral perspective, but I can fully understand why they would look at this kind of alternative.

What should happen is for Sisu to come out and quite clearly state they want to stay at the Arena and do not wish to leave. Then all sides must enter into negotiations on the matter to try and resolve this for the better good of the club, the fans and the citizens of Coventry.

I can understand the hypocrisy being labelled at ACL, but the fans? Has anyone actually come out and said they want Wasps here?

 

[oldskyblue58]

can we clear what it is that we are actually "fighting" for.........

- we want CCFC playing at the Ricoh.............they are and I have not seen anyone say they don't want this long term (other than the CCFC owners)
- we want CCFC to benefit from income sources at the Ricoh.......... plenty of ways that can be done without owning either ACl or the freehold
- we want CCFC to own all part or some of ACL or stadium............ why? and isn't that up to the current CCFC owners (a) deciding they want to be there long term - seems they don't (b) putting in a meaningful or acceptable bid to get that stake- they say they prefer to build their own. How do fans force a club to buy something they seem not to want?

There is a potential for ground sharing isn't there? plenty of clubs do, and potential for a better deal still to be struck for the club isn't there? there is an opportunity to commit long term to the Ricoh isn't there? Stadiums can be used for many sports and events cant they?

Seems to be we are saying that if ACL is not owned by CCC/Charity it can only be owned by CCFC - reality check, the real world doesn't work like that and the clubs owners shot that bolt long ago if it ever existed.

Do not get me wrong I have always wanted the club to be at the Ricoh and to share even own the income streams, I would prefer Wasps not to buy it - but what if it was someone else and they brought other sports in to share?

But what is the clear message that the fans are to campaign about when no one other than CCFC owners are saying "we don't want CCFC to be at the Ricoh long term".

 

[Hobo]

but sisu taking the club to northampton is heinous

council kicking club out of city is just good business


LMAO

When did the council kick the club out of the city?

SISU had a chance to buy a share, they thought it was too expensive. They took the club to Northampton. The fans did not support the move and they found that too expensive despite originally claiming they could meet any shortfall. They have brought the club back but only on a two year deal. They still insist they will build their own stadium?

Whether you believe in the new stadium or not that is their official company stance.

So you cannot blame ACL a business with an Arena for hire for exploring options to expand and secure their business. You and I might not agree with the principle of Wasps coming in.

In my opinion SISU missed a wonderful opportunity to buy into the Ricoh at a reasonable price. Instead they chose to try and be clever, mess everyone around and waste money on miss guided law suites

The real looser in this is Coventry City FC and the fans. If Wasps land it will also damage Coventry Rugby Club at a time when they show signs of recovery. However they are still suffering from not becoming professional when they were one of the big boys in the league.

 

[Otis]

Not happy with it at all and never will be.

Even if it means CCFC staying at the Ricoh to our benefit and Cov rugby are totally onboard with it?

Seriously?

 

[torchomatic]

I guess it's like Villa and CCFC merging. How many would be "onboard" with that, do you reckon? But, that's not the point. It's the hysteria of franchising that suddenly seems to OK with ACL, CCC and people on here.

Even if it means CCFC staying at the Ricoh to our benefit and Cov rugby are totally onboard with it?

Seriously?

 

[Otis]

I guess it's like Villa and CCFC merging. How many would be "onboard" with that, do you reckon? But, that's not the point. It's the hysteria of franchising that suddenly seems to OK with ACL, CCC and people on here.

Maybe I am missing something. Who on here is saying it's okay? How many people? Maybe I've missed those posts, but I can't see anyone agreeing with it, just a number of people understanding ACL's decision from a busines perspective. Just cos people understand that it doesn't mean they agree to it or support it.

 

[Otis]

I guess it's like Villa and CCFC merging. How many would be "onboard" with that, do you reckon? But, that's not the point. It's the hysteria of franchising that suddenly seems to OK with ACL, CCC and people on here.

I don't think Cov fans will be onboard with it. I am saying it would only be okay if Cov fans and the club are totally onboard with it. If they oppose it it shouldn't happen. And if I were Wasps the first thing I would do would be to contact Cov rugby to see how they feel about Wasps moving there and see if they would like to consider some sort of merger.

And I am guessing that 'franchising' would only be okay with ACL and CCC if CCFC are adamant they are leaving come hell or high water.

If they are leaving then what else can aCL and the council do. What other sports team are there in Coventry that ACL could bring in? What local club is there here that could even half fill that stadium?

 

[Snouty72]

OSB58.

Hypothetically.

If CCFC and Wasp merged (after Wasps buy the Ricoh. Could this benefit the Football club in regards to the FFP rules on income as we would share income with Wasps. It would not make to much difference to Wasps as rugby has a wage cap.

 

[torchomatic]

OK. CCFC move to Northampton. Chaos ensues, "no to franchise football", marches, petitions, "fix football", etc etc
(Potentially), London Wasps move to Coventry and maybe swallowing up the city's own rugby team, but ah well, that's business.

just a number of people understanding ACL's decision from a busines perspective. Just cos people understand that it doesn't mean they agree to it or support it.

 

[torchomatic]

Disagree. I've only got to read Jack's posts to see where his loyalties lie.

Just cos people understand that it doesn't mean they agree to it or support it.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Not really. It's two teams playing well away from what they'd usually consider home.

Of course it is. Wasps 'home' isn't a location they've played in for 15 years. They have no other stadiums to use; and their supporters - not through any action of ACL/CCC/whoever - are faced with a 1.5 hour trawl to 'home' games as is. That's as far away from the circumstances which led to us playing in Northampton as it's possible to imagine. It's like saying a leopard is like a whale because they've both got lungs.

Again, I'm not saying the Wasps situation is morally, or ethically agreeable. But it really and truly is nothing in ambition similar to that which gave rise to us playing almost 40 miles away

 

[Jack Griffin]

And offering the Ricoh to a rugby team from London are solid foundations for that trust "rebuilding", are they?

Maybe if the litigation was dropped and realistic negotiation started then the Wasps idea would buzz off.

FWIW I reckon SISU need to think of purchase as the prize at the end of a 4-5 year period of cooperation during which they get access to more & more revenues. They're still after everything right now.

 

[oldskyblue58]

OSB58.

Hypothetically.

If CCFC and Wasp merged (after Wasps buy the Ricoh. Could this benefit the Football club in regards to the FFP rules on income as we would share income with Wasps. It would not make to much difference to Wasps as rugby has a wage cap.

honest answer is I have no idea. The FL seem to be quite flexible as to what contributes so it may. So long as the income relates to the stadium it seems it counts. But I couldn't say for certain.

 

[Monners]

OK. CCFC move to Northampton. Chaos ensues, "no to franchise football", marches, petitions, "fix football", etc etc
(Potentially), London Wasps move to Coventry and maybe swallowing up the city's own rugby team, but ah well, that's business.

Not sure anyone agrees with it Torch. It is wrong to move clubs away from there community in order to make a few quid, and wrong to encourage it (in ACL/CCC's case). And, if Sisu are serious about the Club, then they need to get involved in this discussion - who knows, they may have already.

Stop behaving like a poor man's Grendal

 

[torchomatic]

Sisu moved CCFC to Northampton to try and get the Ricoh on the cheap. They didn't give a fuck about the fans and neither did ACL or CCC, but don't worry, it was only business.

Maybe if the litigation was dropped then the Wasps idea would buzz off

 

[Otis]

OK. CCFC move to Northampton. Chaos ensues, "no to franchise football", marches, petitions, "fix football", etc etc
(Potentially), London Wasps move to Coventry and maybe swallowing up the city's own rugby team, but ah well, that's business.

Nope, still don't get it. From Northampton's perspective it made good sense to have us there and I don't believe I have ever slated Northampton for taking us in.

Therefore , from Northampton's perspective it made perfect sense to take CCFC in. From ACL's perspective, if CCFC are determined to leave, then it makes perfect sense for them to seek another big name player to come to the Arena.

All this from their perspective. As fans I think we are all opposed to such a move unless it benefits CCFC and Cov rugby don't lose out either

 

[torchomatic]

OK, I think the phrase is "it's not you, it's me".

Nope, still don't get it. From Northampton's perspective it made good sense to have us there and I don't believe I have ever slated Northampton for taking us in.

Therefore , from Northampton's perspective it made perfect sense to take CCFC in. From ACL's perspective, if CCFC are determined to leave, then it makes perfect sense for them to seek another big name player to come to the Arena.

All this from their perspective. As fans I think we are all opposed to such a move unless it benefits CCFC and Cov rugby don't lose out either