Wasps signs have actually gone!! (2 Viewers)

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David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Your main argument was he was really really tall. Others did say at the time that this wasn’t really a reason enough to give him a contract. He isn’t even first choice at Wimbledon either.
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The bloke is a proper thick c**t
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Millionaire Middle Finger GIF by FeddyFastRacing

The colours are particularly apt.
 
MusicDating

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
chiefdave said:
that logo sums up how fucking stupid the people running wasps were. they were hemorrhaging money and deep in the shit but someone thought a priority was to pay someone to redesign their badge so it looked shitter and needed updating everywhere.
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Yer, but if you give the impression of success, people are more likely to give you money (ahem, CCC) for you to continue to take your nice salaries. I do wonder at what point they realised they were always going to be simply kicking the can down the road.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Anyone know if the ones from inside the arena are gone too?
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saw a tweet from some wasps fan on twitter about getting stuff back that had been loaned them to display in a bar (did they pay for anything?) that said to email the debranding manager. if that's someones job you'd assume everything is going.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
The Philosopher said:
I think the point is if you want to sell your house, have a mortgage for £500k “ spent the intervening years doing virtually no upkeep on it and smashed a whole through the roof that I'm currently covering up with polythene and gaffer tape.” and it’s worth £250k. You can’t afford to sell it because you owe more than it’s worth to the bank and they’ll chase you down for the balance.

That’s the SISU scenario until just about now that we’ve got a squad worth something and regular decent income and potential.

The problem seems to be that SISU have been playing with other people’s money and couldn’t write off easily. See how it works?
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Are you suggesting that SISU are borrowing money to invest in us, and therefore owe lenders interest on them? And then do you think that amount would equate to the accumulated interest and management charges they're owed?

They get their investment funds from investors, who are very specifically told that no returns are guaranteed, the value of their investment can go down as well as up and their capital is at risk.

So while I'm sure they'd like to provide those to the investors both for their own returns and their reputation, they don't actually have a legal obligation to provide it.
 
The Philosopher

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Are you suggesting that SISU are borrowing money to invest in us, and therefore owe lenders interest on them? And then do you think that amount would equate to the accumulated interest and management charges they're owed?

They get their investment funds from investors, who are very specifically told that no returns are guaranteed, the value of their investment can go down as well as up and their capital is at risk.

So while I'm sure they'd like to provide those to the investors both for their own returns and their reputation, they don't actually have a legal obligation to provide it.
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I’m sure they could theoretically let their investors down, but as you correctly state they would be damaging their own reputation. This would have a knock on effect throughout their book if investors started shying away.

It looks to me that they’ve almost led investors down a path where they have been showing them that the value of their investment has been going up.

Now that CCFC has a value which might conceivably balance their books properly then they are able to exit. They couldn’t before, it seems. Think Tim talking about bottom of cycle. They couldn’t sell then and had to keep going.

They wanted the stadium cheap to then revalue like Wasps did to show tangible worth on their books which was more “realistic”.

That’s my take.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
The Philosopher said:
I’m sure they could theoretically let their investors down, but as you correctly state they would be damaging their own reputation. This would have a knock on effect throughout their book if investors started shying away.

It looks to me that they’ve almost led investors down a path where they have been showing them that the value of their investment has been going up.

Now that CCFC has a value which might conceivably balance their books properly then they are able to exit. They couldn’t before, it seems. Think Tim talking about bottom of cycle. They couldn’t sell then and had to keep going.

They wanted the stadium cheap to then revalue like Wasps did to show tangible worth on their books which was more “realistic”.

That’s my take.
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I doubt their investors would even be aware that their money is in CCFC and it would be part of a larger portfolio that's likely balanced out by gains elsewhere.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
The Philosopher said:
I’m sure they could theoretically let their investors down, but as you correctly state they would be damaging their own reputation. This would have a knock on effect throughout their book if investors started shying away.

It looks to me that they’ve almost led investors down a path where they have been showing them that the value of their investment has been going up.

Now that CCFC has a value which might conceivably balance their books properly then they are able to exit. They couldn’t before, it seems. Think Tim talking about bottom of cycle. They couldn’t sell then and had to keep going.

They wanted the stadium cheap to then revalue like Wasps did to show tangible worth on their books which was more “realistic”.

That’s my take.
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Hard to know who exactly the investors are now. I stand to be corrected but at one stage it was revealed to be under the umbrella of SISU capital fund B but i see that was wound up a few years back. Wasn't one of the investors in that supposed to be an Amercian teachers pension fund? Someone way back did make some headway in finding things out before it was all shipped to the Cayman Islands and ARVO appeared
 
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The Philosopher

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
Hard to know who exactly the investors are now. I stand to be corrected but at one stage it was revealed to be under the umbrella of SISU capital fund B but i see that was wound up a few years back. Wasn't one of the investors in that supposed to be an Amercian teachers pension fund? Someone way back did make some headway in finding things out before it was all shipped to the Cayman Islands and ARVO appeared
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I assumed something similar (but experts on here did their “you’re wrong ner ner ner” thing. )

SISU did a fair few quid of investor money in to start, moved it around so it looked like they hadn’t, put a bit more in and have been showing “returns on investment” on paper all the way through.

This meant that on paper, investors were owed fifty odd million and CCFC was the entity that owed it to them. This is layman’s terms the best I can.

SISU could never sell at much less else their “investment” would be shown to not return. They could fiddle around with other funds as others have suggested but I’m not sure it’s that easy.

That’s how I’ve seen it all along, others on here apparently know better.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
The Philosopher said:
I assumed something similar (but experts on here did their “you’re wrong ner ner ner” thing. )

SISU did a fair few quid of investor money in to start, moved it around so it looked like they hadn’t, put a bit more in and have been showing “returns on investment” on paper all the way through.

This meant that on paper, investors were owed fifty odd million and CCFC was the entity that owed it to them. This is layman’s terms the best I can.

SISU could never sell at much less else their “investment” would be shown to not return. They could fiddle around with other funds as others have suggested but I’m not sure it’s that easy.

That’s how I’ve seen it all along, others on here apparently know better.
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The paper debt was inherited when they took over the club and cleared by the administrations wasn't it? OSB has done plenty of analysis on what money SISU have actually put into the club
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Ive been updating the thread title to reflect the actual situation, mostly in the hope people avoid the embarrassing first page 😂
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Yes, good idea. Some numpty went and made themselves look a bit of a fool didn't they. Can't remember which poster though.

🤷
 
The Philosopher

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
The paper debt was inherited when they took over the club and cleared by the administrations wasn't it? OSB has done plenty of analysis on what money SISU have actually put into the club
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It’s a long way back but when they “saved us” they were carrying a load of debt to GR.

Don’t pin me on it but I think it was £25m to him and a load to others. When they went into admin they had debts of (memory) £60m including that which they had put in themselves.

After admin they wrote off a load of debt but played around with their own debt and carried it over.

I think that’s why there are two main Arvo funds, one is their pre-admin debt levered against golden share, one is their post admin investment plus both have accrued on paper interest. They add up to 50 odd million. They put another 5in in the summer which is where I get my £60m figure from.

This isn’t me saying they’ve out £50 odd million in, I think it’s about half but a load of Legal’s has been paid and is pinned to the Arvo funds.

I think.

OSB has done his analysis about what they’ve put in but not factored huge legal and interest and admin costs.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
The Philosopher said:
It’s a long way back but when they “saved us” they were carrying a load of debt to GR.

Don’t pin me on it but I think it was £25m to him and a load to others. When they went into admin they had debts of (memory) £60m including that which they had put in themselves.

After admin they wrote off a load of debt but played around with their own debt and carried it over.

I think that’s why there are two main Arvo funds, one is their pre-admin debt levered against golden share, one is their post admin investment plus both have accrued on paper interest. They add up to 50 odd million. They put another 5in in the summer which is where I get my £60m figure from.

This isn’t me saying they’ve out £50 odd million in, I think it’s about half but a load of Legal’s has been paid and is pinned to the Arvo funds.

I think.

OSB has done his analysis about what they’ve put in but not factored huge legal and interest and admin costs.
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OSB's last analysis specfically referred to accrued interest, do try and read properly.

As for legal costs, they are most probably being funded externally.
 
The Philosopher

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
OSB's last analysis specfically referred to accrued interest, do try and read properly.

As for legal costs, they are most probably being funded externally.
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Great insight.

Probably funded externally from imaginary money tree?

I’d wager added to “investment”. They don’t seem to be flush with spare money to write off on legals.

But ok I’m totally wrong and you win the Internet points.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
The Philosopher said:
Great insight.

Probably funded externally from imaginary money tree?

I’d wager added to “investment”. They don’t seem to be flush with spare money to write off on legals.

But ok I’m totally wrong and you win the Internet points.
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Well in JR1 the claimants were:
SKY BLUE SPORTS & LEISURE LIMITED [non trading parent]
ARVO MASTER FUND LIMITED [SISU]
COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (HOLDINGS) LIMITED [liquidated by JR2]


and in JR2 the claimants were:
(1) SKY BLUE SPORTS & LEISURE LIMITED [non trading parent]
(2) ARVO MASTER FUND LIMITED [SISU]

Where do you think the money came from?
 
The Philosopher

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Well in JR1 the claimants were:
SKY BLUE SPORTS & LEISURE LIMITED [non trading parent]
ARVO MASTER FUND LIMITED [SISU]
COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (HOLDINGS) LIMITED [liquidated by JR2]


and in JR2 the claimants were:
(1) SKY BLUE SPORTS & LEISURE LIMITED [non trading parent]
(2) ARVO MASTER FUND LIMITED [SISU]

Where do you think the money came from?
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Don’t care.

I believe added to the overall debt / amount SISU need to sell up.

I can’t be arsed to trade snarky comments.

Leave it at that.
 
S

Seamus1

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Ive been updating the thread title to reflect the actual situation, mostly in the hope people avoid the embarrassing first page 😂
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Maybe you had some really vivid foresight as to what was to come in just a few days time...

...any chance you have had similar vivid thoughts about this Friday’s euro millions numbers??
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Seamus1 said:
Maybe you had some really vivid foresight as to what was to come in just a few days time...

...any chance you have had similar vivid thoughts about this Friday’s euro millions numbers??
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Im not going to share my guaranteed jackpot with you! Nice try though, look out for my exclusive interview with Simon Gilbert next week. I’ve already got Gary Hoffman onboard!
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Nick said:
Taking them to Worcester?

www.worcesternews.co.uk

Wasps' bidders supposedly looking at Sixways groundshare with Worcester

REPORTS in the media today suggest that the consortium looking to purchase Wasps are looking at Sixways as a potential home for the former…
www.worcesternews.co.uk www.worcesternews.co.uk
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Would be even more ridiculous, wouldn't it.

Can only see a logic of ending up there is holding out until they're allowed back to London, although at that rate they'd be playing in Haverfordwest before you know it!
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
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