What do we still need? (2 Viewers)

[Perennial Lurker]

I'd like to see a couple of outgoings first. Palmer, Collins and Tavares wouldn't be a loss and would free up space in the squad/budget for one or two quality additions.

Collins is a better keeper than Wilson as was proved last season before we tailed off massively, Tavares showed enough against United and other appearances to suggest there is a decent player in there . Palmer I tend to agree with

 

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[Perennial Lurker]

Another fucking helmet on ignore , is he Boosh ?

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

So to summarise you're prepared to gamble up to £11M on promotion "Peanuts" what planet are you on ? It's not absolutely nothing if we don't get promoted . Different situation if Viktor & Gus go but your attitude towards gambling big sums on an eventuality which is an 11/2 shot in the bookies eyes is reckless at best , utter stupidity more realistically.
Have you forgotten what happened when the clubs finances were previously in the hands of gamblers such as yourself ?
May as well get Terry Ramsden in now.

What you are asking is not sustainable. There are no guarantees that spending big on back up players would get us promoted. I’d rather have Burroughs, someone that knows the club deputise than someone who might take half a season to settle in

I’ll reply to these together as it’s basically the same point. Apologies if it drags but I can’t not defend my view.

Firstly, the “peanuts” point, somewhere between £6-11 mil is nothing for 3 players, that’s like £2-3.5 mil per player, it’s really not extravagant in any way for this level.

The “11/2” point, maybe you’re seeing this as a shot in the dark, like we’ll just have a crack at it and hope it comes off once in the next 5-6 years, okay fair but we’re already 2 years into Doug’s 5 year plan and we’re in the best position we’ve ever been in. What happens if in 3-4 years, after stab after stab, the whole energy around the club starts to diminish? Are we going to be attracting the same sort of talent if we’ve achieved nothing since the start of Doug’s plan? Are we going to keep up season ticket sales and merch sales and quality sponsorships? Will Robins still be here? Will all the players be happy with where they’re at?

I think you’ve got to be determined that we’re going to make it this year, and every year, in order to achieve promotion. We can’t just sit there and say “well we’re only a 11/2 shot with the bookies so what’s the point?”. Businesses require investment and occasional risk-taking in order to keep building and building. Would I have suggested investing heavily 2/3/4 years ago, no, because we were nowhere near the level required to achieve promotion. Now we’re literally inches away it seems more prudent to take what is a relatively small risk.

As for your point procdoc, I know what you mean but I’d say in response that it’s also no guarantee that Burroughs is good enough to get us promoted, one decent friendly and everyone’s getting hyped up over him.

Yes signings can take a while to settle in but no one seems to be saying that about Rudoni or EMC, they’re in most people’s starting line-ups no question. Why are they fine to slot straight in and yet other potential signings won’t?

(I think that’s a record, even for me, Clint’s gonna love it)

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

I don't think there's any evidence that the league will be "much weaker", than last season.

It’s speculative I grant you, but teams like Leeds have sold a lot of talent and probably will see more offers for their best players. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re a lot weaker this season whilst they rebuild somewhat. Sheffield have signed a few players but nothing spectacular, similar for Burnley, and I’ve yet to see anything frightening from the teams that finished 6th-9th last season.

We’re also in a much better position than last season not having had to completely rebuild our squad and at the same time we also now have better training facilities and new coaching staff etc. Also the teams that were recently relegated are just a lot “weaker” in my eyes, I think Burnley/Sheffield/Luton are weaker than Leicester/Leeds/Southampton.

It’s the teams that we traditionally struggle against that worry me more than anything, need to start beating the likes of Preston and Swansea away if we’re to get promoted.

 

[Chris1987]

I’ll reply to these together as it’s basically the same point. Apologies if it drags but I can’t not defend my view.

Firstly, the “peanuts” point, somewhere between £6-11 mil is nothing for 3 players, that’s like £2-3.5 mil per player, it’s really not extravagant in any way for this level.

The “11/2” point, maybe you’re seeing this as a shot in the dark, like we’ll just have a crack at it and hope it comes off once in the next 5-6 years, okay fair but we’re already 2 years into Doug’s 5 year plan and we’re in the best position we’ve ever been in. What happens if in 3-4 years, after stab after stab, the whole energy around the club starts to diminish? Are we going to be attracting the same sort of talent if we’ve achieved nothing since the start of Doug’s plan? Are we going to keep up season ticket sales and merch sales and quality sponsorships? Will Robins still be here? Will all the players be happy with where they’re at?

I think you’ve got to be determined that we’re going to make it this year, and every year, in order to achieve promotion. We can’t just sit there and say “well we’re only a 11/2 shot with the bookies so what’s the point?”. Businesses require investment and occasional risk-taking in order to keep building and building. Would I have suggested investing heavily 2/3/4 years ago, no, because we were nowhere near the level required to achieve promotion. Now we’re literally inches away it seems more prudent to take what is a relatively small risk.

As for your point procdoc, I know what you mean but I’d say in response that it’s also no guarantee that Burroughs is good enough to get us promoted, one decent friendly and everyone’s getting hyped up over him.

Yes signings can take a while to settle in but no one seems to be saying that about Rudoni or EMC, they’re in most people’s starting line-ups no question. Why are they fine to slot straight in and yet other potential signings won’t?

(I think that’s a record, even for me, Clint’s gonna love it)

If £11M is peanuts to you put the money into the club yourself.
Just think through what you're saying ( you obviously haven't properly). If your £11M gamble doesn't come off do you repeat it next season and where does that cash come from ?
The whole principle around a 5 year plan is that it is just that and it won't be compromised by a nonsensical overspend. Yes the PL could be achieved in any one of the years but the approach has to be sustainable. You have no clue about financial management.

 

[itsabuzzard]

It’s speculative I grant you, but teams like Leeds have sold a lot of talent and probably will see more offers for their best players. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re a lot weaker this season whilst they rebuild somewhat. Sheffield have signed a few players but nothing spectacular, similar for Burnley, and I’ve yet to see anything frightening from the teams that finished 6th-9th last season.

We’re also in a much better position than last season not having had to completely rebuild our squad and at the same time we also now have better training facilities and new coaching staff etc. Also the teams that were recently relegated are just a lot “weaker” in my eyes, I think Burnley/Sheffield/Luton are weaker than Leicester/Leeds/Southampton.

It’s the teams that we traditionally struggle against that worry me more than anything, need to start beating the likes of Preston and Swansea away if we’re to get promoted.

I still can't see any evidence to back up what you're saying about the relative "weakness" of the league this coming season. How are the relegated teams "a lot 'weaker'"? They finished above the teams they left behind in the Championship and have had a lucrative season in the top league, with massive parachute payments to soften the blow of being battered most weeks. Sure they'll lose some of their better and more ambitious players, but that's always been the case. Ditto for those teams that were in the mix for promotion, but missed out.
It remains to be seen if the recent changes to personnel and infrastructure have a positive effect on our results on the pitch - plenty of reasons to be optimistic, and it's shaping up to be another exciting season.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

If £11M is peanuts to you put the money into the club yourself.
Just think through what you're saying ( you obviously haven't properly). If your £11M gamble doesn't come off do you repeat it next season and where does that cash come from ?
The whole principle around a 5 year plan is that it is just that and it won't be compromised by a nonsensical overspend. Yes the PL could be achieved in any one of the years but the approach has to be sustainable. You have no clue about financial management.

Quite. Also if we just happen to have a spare £11 million hanging about I am far from sure that spending it on players to sit on the bench is the best strategy.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

If £11M is peanuts to you put the money into the club yourself.
Just think through what you're saying ( you obviously haven't properly). If your £11M gamble doesn't come off do you repeat it next season and where does that cash come from ?
The whole principle around a 5 year plan is that it is just that and it won't be compromised by a nonsensical overspend. Yes the PL could be achieved in any one of the years but the approach has to be sustainable. You have no clue about financial management.

You say £11 mil but my original quote was “between £6-£11 mil”, it doesn’t have to be exactly £11 mil as you keep stating. Simply a decent, cheap backup at RB would be enough, then £2-4 mil on a striker and maybe £3-5 mil on a CM.

£6 mil for a multimillionaire who owns a football club, who probably has multiple revenue streams and potentially has the Gyokeres/Hamer money coming in, let alone the sale of Sheaf, Simms and Van Ewijk at some point (which can be sold if we really need the money for future seasons), it’s really nothing when you consider the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Now is the time, not 2-3 years ago or 2-3 years in the future, it’s my belief that now is exactly the right time to make those extra investments in the club (and remember it’s just belief typed up onto a fan forum, it’s nothing serious or personal).

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Quite. Also if we just happen to have a spare £11 million hanging about I am far from sure that spending it on players to sit on the bench is the best strategy.

I know it’s sounds wrong but what we need is a strong squad, not just a strong starting 11. We got fucked at the end last season because of the amount of games we had to play, I think so far we’ve only added 1 player to the squad size (am I right there? Rudoni, Rapha, EMC, Dovin in and Godden, Kelly, O’Hare out, obvs not counting Moore). So we’re not exactly swimming with quality that can come off the bench, for wingers we’re sound but CM, ST and RB we’re not.

Also my original quote was £6-11 mil, not just £11 mil as Chris was stating. I really don’t think I’m stating something that’s mind-blowing: “spend around £8 mil on 3 players to add depth to what was a knackered squad last season”. I feel like I’m just stating the bleeding obvious, something that most people have already agreed on, it’s only when someone puts a number on it that people start to moan about the cost of it.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

You say £11 mil but my original quote was “between £6-£11 mil”, it doesn’t have to be exactly £11 mil as you keep stating. Simply a decent, cheap backup at RB would be enough, then £2-4 mil on a striker and maybe £3-5 mil on a CM.

£6 mil for a multimillionaire who owns a football club, who probably has multiple revenue streams and potentially has the Gyokeres/Hamer money coming in, let alone the sale of Sheaf, Simms and Van Ewijk at some point (which can be sold if we really need the money for future seasons), it’s really nothing when you consider the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Now is the time, not 2-3 years ago or 2-3 years in the future, it’s my belief that now is exactly the right time to make those extra investments in the club (and remember it’s just belief typed up onto a fan forum, it’s nothing serious or personal).

If we didn’t have enough for a couple of loans or freebies in January to see us over the line when in fifth position in the league I really don't think we have a spare £11 million now. Obviously that changes if we sell someone, or the Gyokeres and Hamer comes in but even then £11million is stretching it.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I know it’s sounds wrong but what we need is a strong squad, not just a strong starting 11. We got fucked at the end last season because of the amount of games we had to play, I think so far we’ve only added 1 player to the squad size (am I right there? Rudoni, Rapha, EMC, Dovin in and Godden, Kelly, O’Hare out, obvs not counting Moore). So we’re not exactly swimming with quality that can come off the bench, for wingers we’re sound but CM, ST and RB we’re not.

Also my original quote was £6-11 mil, not just £11 mil as Chris was stating. I really don’t think I’m stating something that’s mind-blowing: “spend around £8 mil on 3 players to add depth to what was a knackered squad last season”. I feel like I’m just stating the bleeding obvious, something that most people have already agreed on, it’s only when someone puts a number on it that people start to moan about the cost of it.

If we have a spare £11 million I don't want us blowing any of it on back up right backs or back up strikers. It would have to be on players who would really add something special to the team. But we don't have that anyway unless we sell first.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

If we didn’t have enough for a couple of loans or freebies in January to see us over the line when in fifth position in the league I really don't think we have a spare £11 million now. Obviously that changes if we sell someone, or the Gyokeres and Hamer comes in but even then £11million is stretching it.

If we have a spare £11 million I don't want us blowing any of it on back up right backs or back up strikers. It would have to be on players who would really add something special to the team. But we don't have that anyway unless we sell first.

Again, it’s £6-11 million I originally stated, not just £11 million, why does everyone who seems to be against us buying players pick the top end of my estimate?

As for why Doug didn’t buy in January, maybe he just thought I’ll wait until the summer and see who’s off and who’s not and maybe the players we needed weren’t available?

I agree with you that we need quality but unfortunately that’s going to cost us even more money as a real top quality player like Stamenic is going to be around £5 mil, maybe more, and we need another ST so we can rotate with Simms when needed (because it will be needed at some point). I’m suggesting £6-£11 mil on three decent players combined and that would see us complete in my view. What I expect Doug to do and what I believe we need are two different things but I think we need that extra quality on the bench so we can impact games rather than just patching things up.

 

[Sick Boy]

Again, it’s £6-11 million I originally stated, not just £11 million, why does everyone who seems to be against us buying players pick the top end of my estimate?

As for why Doug didn’t buy in January, maybe he just thought I’ll wait until the summer and see who’s off and who’s not and maybe the players we needed weren’t available?

I agree with you that we need quality but unfortunately that’s going to cost us even more money as a real top quality player like Stamenic is going to be around £5 mil, maybe more, and we need another ST so we can rotate with Simms when needed (because it will be needed at some point). I’m suggesting £6-£11 mil on three decent players,

We’re hardly well off compared to a lot of teams in this league. There’s no chance we’re spending that much on players to sit on the bench.

 

[Chris1987]

You say £11 mil but my original quote was “between £6-£11 mil”, it doesn’t have to be exactly £11 mil as you keep stating. Simply a decent, cheap backup at RB would be enough, then £2-4 mil on a striker and maybe £3-5 mil on a CM.

£6 mil for a multimillionaire who owns a football club, who probably has multiple revenue streams and potentially has the Gyokeres/Hamer money coming in, let alone the sale of Sheaf, Simms and Van Ewijk at some point (which can be sold if we really need the money for future seasons), it’s really nothing when you consider the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Now is the time, not 2-3 years ago or 2-3 years in the future, it’s my belief that now is exactly the right time to make those extra investments in the club (and remember it’s just belief typed up onto a fan forum, it’s nothing serious or personal).

The whole principle of a sustainable model such as what I believe Doug is building is to sell on at big profit before reinvesting. What you're proposing is the polar opposite. You are now twisting your argument. You were perfectly happen to blow up to £11M and now you're saying it's £6M. Regardless of what the owner is personally worth the essence is creating an ongoing successful plan which you propose to ignore. I would suggest that Doug knows better than you unless you are of course a multi millionaire.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

We’re hardly well off compared to a lot of teams in this league. There’s no chance we’re spending that much on players to sit on the bench.

I really don’t think £6-11 mil for 3 players is much at all in this day and age.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I really don’t think £6-11 mil for 3 players is much at all in this day and age.

To us it is...

How much are we spending on the LB you desperately want as well?

 

[Chris1987]

I really don’t think £6-11 mil for 3 players is much at all in this day and age.

I still would like to see a detailed financial plan of where this additional funding comes from.

 

[Sick Boy]

I really don’t think £6-11 mil for 3 players is much at all in this day and age.

It most certainly is to a club like us.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Again, it’s £6-11 million I originally stated, not just £11 million, why does everyone who seems to be against us buying players pick the top end of my estimate?

As for why Doug didn’t buy in January, maybe he just thought I’ll wait until the summer and see who’s off and who’s not and maybe the players we needed weren’t available?

I agree with you that we need quality but unfortunately that’s going to cost us even more money as a real top quality player like Stamenic is going to be around £5 mil, maybe more, and we need another ST so we can rotate with Simms when needed (because it will be needed at some point). I’m suggesting £6-£11 mil on three decent players combined and that would see us complete in my view. What I expect Doug to do and what I believe we need are two different things but I think we need that extra quality on the bench so we can impact games rather than just patching things up.

It would be crazy to say we won’t go for it in January when already in a prime position but wait until next season when everyone is level and other teams will have strengthened. It's much harder to get promoted now than it was in January.

You seem to forget it's not just £11 million, or even £6 million on fees but also four years salary for each player. What you are suggesting would put the club into decline for decades without really strengthening the team. It's just not sustainable.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

The whole principle of a sustainable model such as what I believe Doug is building is to sell on at big profit before reinvesting. What you're proposing is the polar opposite. You are now twisting your argument. You were perfectly happen to blow up to £11M and now you're saying it's £6M. Regardless of what the owner is personally worth the essence is creating an ongoing successful plan which you propose to ignore. I would suggest that Doug knows better than you unless you are of course a multi millionaire.

I’m not sure if you read my original post properly but I did say £6-11 mil (as I’ve now stated about 7 times), so in no way am I “twisting” my original comment, I’m stating it correctly if anything.

Ahh the old “well the owner knows better than you and has more money than you”, it’s a fucking forum, wtf are we all doing here if we can’t give our own opinions?! What I’m stating is literally what everyone else has said, we need a CM and a ST, just with the addition of a RB in my view. Why don’t you have a go at everyone else on here that’s made the exact point as me? Ask everyone else how much they think a ST and a CM would cost, negate the RB and I think the figure would be almost identical to mine.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

It most certainly is to a club like us.

Let’s say £8 mil combined as it’s roughly in the middle of 6-11 (cba to do the calcs for 8.5), that’s £8 mil divided by 3 = £2.6 mil per player. We can’t afford to buy a few £2.6 mil players? None of us know how much Doug has to invest but I would have thought, or hoped, he’s got more than that if he’s the owner of a football club.

 

[Chris1987]

I’m not sure if you read my original post properly but I did say £6-11 mil (as I’ve now stated about 7 times), so in no way am I “twisting” my original comment, I’m stating it correctly if anything.

Ahh the old “well the owner knows better than you and has more money than you”, it’s a fucking forum, wtf are we all doing here if we can’t give our own opinions?! What I’m stating is literally what everyone else has said, we need a CM and a ST, just with the addition of a RB in my view. Why don’t you have a go at everyone else on here that’s made the exact point as me? Ask everyone else how much they think a ST and a CM would cost, negate the RB and I think the figure would be almost identical to mine.

Where have I said that you can't give your own opinion ? You are still proposing up to £11M regardless . It would be advantageous to have these additions but only Doug and the financial department within in the club will know what the budget is and how it is to be financed. So I will continue like yourself to air my opinion on this fucking forum.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

To us it is...

How much are we spending on the LB you desperately want as well?

I do want another LB, as I don’t like our current situation there, but in the last comment that I spoke about that (can’t remember where it was tbf) I did say that it’s probably not practical to buy another LB on top of everything else. I think most people agree a CM and ST are needed, I’d just add a cheap/decent RB to that and I think we’re done. I know you love reacting to my comments with the laughing emoji but I really don’t see what’s wrong with the idea of buying a CM and ST?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I do want another LB, as I don’t like our current situation there, but in the last comment that I spoke about that (can’t remember where it was tbf) I did say that it’s probably not practical to buy another LB on top of everything else. I think most people agree a CM and ST are needed, I’d just add a cheap/decent RB to that and I think we’re done. I know you love reacting to my comments with the laughing emoji but I really don’t see what’s wrong with the idea of buying a CM and ST?

A Cheap RB but you wanna spend a couple mil. Cody Drameh would be a good RB choice on a free.

 

[Evo1883]

I’ll reply to these together as it’s basically the same point. Apologies if it drags but I can’t not defend my view.

Firstly, the “peanuts” point, somewhere between £6-11 mil is nothing for 3 players, that’s like £2-3.5 mil per player, it’s really not extravagant in any way for this level.

The “11/2” point, maybe you’re seeing this as a shot in the dark, like we’ll just have a crack at it and hope it comes off once in the next 5-6 years, okay fair but we’re already 2 years into Doug’s 5 year plan and we’re in the best position we’ve ever been in. What happens if in 3-4 years, after stab after stab, the whole energy around the club starts to diminish? Are we going to be attracting the same sort of talent if we’ve achieved nothing since the start of Doug’s plan? Are we going to keep up season ticket sales and merch sales and quality sponsorships? Will Robins still be here? Will all the players be happy with where they’re at?

I think you’ve got to be determined that we’re going to make it this year, and every year, in order to achieve promotion. We can’t just sit there and say “well we’re only a 11/2 shot with the bookies so what’s the point?”. Businesses require investment and occasional risk-taking in order to keep building and building. Would I have suggested investing heavily 2/3/4 years ago, no, because we were nowhere near the level required to achieve promotion. Now we’re literally inches away it seems more prudent to take what is a relatively small risk.

As for your point procdoc, I know what you mean but I’d say in response that it’s also no guarantee that Burroughs is good enough to get us promoted, one decent friendly and everyone’s getting hyped up over him.

Yes signings can take a while to settle in but no one seems to be saying that about Rudoni or EMC, they’re in most people’s starting line-ups no question. Why are they fine to slot straight in and yet other potential signings won’t?

(I think that’s a record, even for me, Clint’s gonna love it)

If the club could afford to risk it they would but uou have to factor in financial fair play too

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Where have I said that you can't give your own opinion ? You are still proposing up to £11M regardless . It would be advantageous to have these additions but only Doug and the financial department within in the club will know what the budget is and how it is to be financed. So I will continue like yourself to air my opinion on this fucking forum.

You were basically implying that because I’m not a multimillionaire or because I’m not the owner of the club that my opinion was invalid because “the owner knows better” (not a direct quote), well that applies to almost every single one of us on this forum so it’s a moot point.

But yes I agree that only Doug knows the budget, so we get what we get, I was just giving my opinion on what I think we need that’s all.

 

[Evo1883]

Sorry more specifically we have to adhere to profit and sustainability rules over a three year period (losses etc )

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

A Cheap RB but you wanna spend a couple mil. Cody Drameh would be a good RB choice on a free.

Yeah I can get onboard with that tbf. Loans are fine as long as they’re decent, don’t want another Ayari type but I think Drameh is alright. I prefer buying a player because we can train them on and hopefully make profit out of it but I realise a loan for RB would probably be ideal in this situation.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Yeah I can get onboard with that tbf. Loans are fine as long as they’re decent, don’t want another Ayari type but I think Drameh is alright. I prefer buying a player because we can train them on and hopefully make profit out of it but I realise a loan for RB would probably be ideal in this situation.

Drameh is a free agent

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

If the club could afford to risk it they would but uou have to factor in financial fair play too

Sorry more specifically we have to adhere to profit and sustainability rules over a three year period (losses etc )

Yeah fair enough, there’s that to consider too. As I stated earlier, I’m just speculating here, none of this is that deep, so I’ll admit FFP isn’t something I know a lot about but I can only assume £6-11 mil wouldn’t see us cross that line?

 

[TomRad85]

Can't see us doing loans, just doesn't seem to be our thing. Presumably we don't want to develop other teams players unless we're confident we can bring them in at the end of the loan spell. Although i am hoping we now have a reputation where we can pull in maybe 1 absolute worldy of a loan.

 

[Evo1883]

Would anybody offer oliver Norwood a year ? 33 years old

Would offer an older head in the middle

I'm aware he is coming to the end of his career , but feel like we need to add some quality next to Sheaf .

Would it be a step back in how we recruit etc?

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Drameh is a free agent

Even better then, basically like a long term loan in a way (Drameh is not someone I’d looked up so no idea how much his wages would be etc so there’s that to consider, but loans and free agents are fine provided they’re decent.)

 

[shmmeee]

I’d be fine with loans at ST and RB, the only place we need to spend IMO is CM.

 

[TomRad85]

Yeah fair enough, there’s that to consider too. As I stated earlier, I’m just speculating here, none of this is that deep, so I’ll admit FFP isn’t something I know a lot about but I can only assume £6-11 mil wouldn’t see us cross that line?

I've always said i still think we have more in the pot to spend that a lot on here seem to think but you don't help yourself with things like "the more signings, the better." I mean, that's really not true.
I expect to see 2-3 more and expect a couple of them could be quite exciting.