Where are ACL? (2 Viewers)

[tuousis]

You idiot,how old are you ?. Coventry supporters from th 40s 50s and 60s remember better days than SISU will ever give us, and 70s 80s. We will never reach that again with owners who do not attend matches.Stop you vile abuse and language and grow up.
Covcity-4life

 

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[Covstu]

We have a 32000 stadium that will cost us less than running a new smaller stadium for at least 10 years. (including the pies)
Do the figures, understand what SISU are doing and make your peace while the humble pie is still in the oven.

I think your missing the fundamental point here, we dont have a 32,000 stadium, ACL do! It doesnt belong to the club hence why we are where we are!

 

[torchomatic]

I’ve been watching Coventry City since 1972, so obviously yes I have seen us in the top flight. Just because I’m being realistic about our current position doesn’t mean to say that I’m settling for second best or “lacking aspiration” as you seem to label anyone who doesn’t agree with you. I don’t want to see us in L1 or the Championship but that is where we are. We are now a “lower league” team. We have no divine right to be in the top flight. Our decline started a long time before we were unfortunately saddled with SISU.

And yes, we have to settle for what SISU can afford and that is an inescapable cast iron fact. Before they were here we couldn’t afford to be in our beautiful state-of-the-art stadium because of what previous regimes had done – mainly living beyond our means. Watching us in the top flight in the late 90s was an exciting time, but paying Dublin, McAllister, etc £20K a week was, in hindsight, a massive mistake and another nail in the coffin.

I’d like to see us playing as high up the ladder as possible in the Ricoh.

You don’t have to excuse any of my comments. Similarly, I don’t have to excuse your sanctimonious and pious ones either.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but did I spend nearly 40 years watching a team in the top flight?
I will never settle for anything less than getting to the top flight.
You settle for second best but I will never do that.

You are right though you will have to settle for the level SISU can afford.
Not for me though.

What makes matters worse is that if SISU can get over the fact there is no 'real' advantage in owning the stadium in the short term we are then set up with the stadium and maybe this manager to get where we belong.

As a matter of interest, did you see Coventry in the top flight ?
I can excuse your comments if you didn't.

 

[Covstu]

SISU have a choice to make.

Move back to the Arena and continue on in our quest for PL status or build a stadium and condemn us to mid leagues for ever.
Fans are telling them now what they will do if they build the stadium in the hope that they take their majority view on board.

A small percentage of fans are making them think they have a plan whether backing them up on this board or just attending Sixfields.
All these fans are doing when attending is giving SISU leverage in their quest to get the stadium for next to nothing.

Still time to change your views before the humble pie comes out the oven.

i bloody hope they get the stadium for next to nothing then we can all go back to Cov!! FFS!

 

[italiahorse]

I think your missing the fundamental point here, we dont have a 32,000 stadium, ACL do! It doesnt belong to the club hence why we are where we are!

Do you actually believe that ? Have you done the figures? Don't fall for SISU bullshit.
I agree with OSB that we don't need to own the stadium.

 

[sky blue john]

I think your missing the fundamental point here, we dont have a 32,000 stadium, ACL do! It doesnt belong to the club
hence why we are where we are!

So what will be the difference of Ccfc playing in an Arvo owned stadium ?

 

[torchomatic]

Is that similar to the “Quest for Premiership status” since we moved into the Ricoh?
I don’t and won’t go to Sixfields (or on the hill) and won’t go away either until we are back in Coventry, preferably at the Ricoh.

Remind me, what have I got to change my views about again?

SISU have a choice to make.

Move back to the Arena and continue on in our quest for PL status or build a stadium and condemn us to mid leagues for ever.
Fans are telling them now what they will do if they build the stadium in the hope that they take their majority view on board.

A small percentage of fans are making them think they have a plan whether backing them up on this board or just attending Sixfields.
All these fans are doing when attending is giving SISU leverage in their quest to get the stadium for next to nothing.

Still time to change your views before the humble pie comes out the oven.

 

[torchomatic]

Football finance experts seem to disagree with you and (shock horror!) OSB too.

Do you actually believe that ? Have you done the figures? Don't fall for SISU bullshit.
I agree with OSB that we don't need to own the stadium.

 

[Covstu]

Do you actually believe that ? Have you done the figures? Don't fall for SISU bullshit.
I agree with OSB that we don't need to own the stadium.

Do i believe that ACL own the ground and the club dont, yes i do! The previous arrangement wasnt beneficial for the club at was putting us to a slow death. I dont agree with SISU's actions in not paying the rent etc but i agree that we need to be able to control our own revenue stream and not be reliant on a third party. Dont fall for ACL bullshit either, they are as bad as each other...

 

[Nick]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but did I spend nearly 40 years watching a team in the top flight?
I will never settle for anything less than getting to the top flight.
You settle for second best but I will never do that.

You are right though you will have to settle for the level SISU can afford.
Not for me though.

What makes matters worse is that if SISU can get over the fact there is no 'real' advantage in owning the stadium in the short term we are then set up with the stadium and maybe this manager to get where we belong.

As a matter of interest, did you see Coventry in the top flight ?
I can excuse your comments if you didn't.

Were we not relegated before SISU though? We aren't a top flight team now though, some people don't seem to accept that.

 

[italiahorse]

i bloody hope they get the stadium for next to nothing then we can all go back to Cov!! FFS!

I don't care as long as we get back to the Ricoh. Unfortunately is it fair to break a long term lease that you have agreed to and a stadium was built on that agreement.
If CCFC 2000 were not going to want a 32000 seated stadium they should had said so and not have agreed the original lease.
CCC would have committed to the financing of a stadium build based on income streams which would include a major contribution from CCFC.

SISU in breaking the lease would obviously upset that long term business plan and certainly would have achieved ownership for themselves if the loan had not been refinanced.
The missing point is that ownership will be for themselves NOT CCFC.

Whether it be a new stadium or the Ricoh, SISU will be charging CCFC rent.
If they sell the club then they will keep the stadium and rent it back.

So picture CCFC in 10 years time in a smaller stadium owned by SISU and charged an extortionate rent ????

 

[italiahorse]

Were we not relegated before SISU though? We aren't a top flight team now though, some people don't seem to accept that.

So you think we are at the right level, your happy hear and you accept that PL is a step too far .............. forever.

 

[Nick]

So picture CCFC in 10 years time in a smaller stadium owned by SISU and charged an extortionate rent ????

Is there much difference to it being a small stadium that is near enough full owned by SISU charging a massive rent compared to a big stadium thats near enough empty with ACL charging massive rent?

Either way, massive rent but for some reason it seems OK for ACL to do it?

 

[torchomatic]

If Property Developer (hints in the title there) PH4 bought CCFC what would he be interested? The fantastic football stadium with masses of surrounding land to develop or a L1 football team?

So basically, you don't mind ACL charging us an extortionate rent, but not SISU?

.


The missing point is that ownership will be for themselves NOT CCFC.

Whether it be a new stadium or the Ricoh, SISU will be charging CCFC rent.
If they sell the club then they will keep the stadium and rent it back.

So picture CCFC in 10 years time in a smaller stadium owned by SISU and charged an extortionate rent ????

 

[torchomatic]

Again, when someone challenges you always presume that they are "happy" where we are. No one is.

So you think we are at the right level, your happy hear and you accept that PL is a step too far .............. forever.

 

[torchomatic]

Spot on. Breathtaking really.

Is there much difference to it being a small stadium that is near enough full owned by SISU charging a massive rent compared to a big stadium thats near enough empty with ACL charging massive rent?

Either way, massive rent but for some reason it seems OK for ACL to do it?

 

[Nick]

So you think we are at the right level, your happy hear and you accept that PL is a step too far .............. forever.

Of course I would like to be in the top flight, but just because we were it doesn't mean we have any automatic right to be there like some people think. I would much rather linger in League 1 or the Championship while things get sorted out and we are run within our means than getting into stupid amounts of debt paying players silly money.

 

[torchomatic]

And what's the difference with a massive rent charged by ACL or a massive rent charged by SISU? Does either scenario help Coventry City Football Club?

So what will be the difference of Ccfc playing in an Arvo owned stadium ?

 

[Nick]

If Property Developer (hints in the title there) PH4 bought CCFC what would he be interested? The fantastic football stadium with masses of surrounding land to develop or a L1 football team?

So basically, you don't mind ACL charging us an extortionate rent, but not SISU?

Yes but that is SISU's fault for agreeing to it....

 

[Covstu]

I don't care as long as we get back to the Ricoh. Unfortunately is it fair to break a long term lease that you have agreed to and a stadium was built on that agreement.
If CCFC 2000 were not going to want a 32000 seated stadium they should had said so and not have agreed the original lease.
CCC would have committed to the financing of a stadium build based on income streams which would include a major contribution from CCFC.

SISU in breaking the lease would obviously upset that long term business plan and certainly would have achieved ownership for themselves if the loan had not been refinanced.
The missing point is that ownership will be for themselves NOT CCFC.

Whether it be a new stadium or the Ricoh, SISU will be charging CCFC rent.
If they sell the club then they will keep the stadium and rent it back.

So picture CCFC in 10 years time in a smaller stadium owned by SISU and charged an extortionate rent ????

I dont disagree as i said on a previous post, i dont agree with the way SISU have acted on the rent agreement but the whole thing made little sense in respect to the lack of revenue coming back to the club, you cannot be asked to get back to the premiership when there is next to nothing coming into the club. These agreements were made before SISU were in place so to put this completely at their door completely is a little misguided, the club was in the shit way before their tenure, these arrangements were in place before they took over. Unfortunately you cannot negotiate that type of thing at that point but i agree they should have gone about this very differently but ACL have took the piss out of our club for too long in my opinion.

 

[italiahorse]

Do i believe that ACL own the ground and the club dont, yes i do! The previous arrangement wasnt beneficial for the club at was putting us to a slow death. I dont agree with SISU's actions in not paying the rent etc but i agree that we need to be able to control our own revenue stream and not be reliant on a third party. Dont fall for ACL bullshit either, they are as bad as each other...

I want the club to own the ground, but SISU are not prepared to pay what it is worth or at least come to some arrangement to purchase in stages over time.
Bear in mind under SISU and any other owners, the football club will never own the ground until it can generate enough surplus income to get it on the books.
We will always be renting it in some form or another and it will be on someone else's books. The previous regime made sure of that..

 

[Covstu]

Yes but that is SISU's fault for agreeing to it....

Did they?? that deal was probably locked in prior to SISU's arrival to be fair

 

[Nick]

Did they?? that deal was probably locked in prior to SISU's arrival to be fair

Sorry, I was just being sarcastic! Should have made a point of explaining that!

 

[italiahorse]

I dont disagree as i said on a previous post, i dont agree with the way SISU have acted on the rent agreement but the whole thing made little sense in respect to the lack of revenue coming back to the club, you cannot be asked to get back to the premiership when there is next to nothing coming into the club. These agreements were made before SISU were in place so to put this completely at their door completely is a little misguided, the club was in the shit way before their tenure, these arrangements were in place before they took over. Unfortunately you cannot negotiate that type of thing at that point but i agree they should have gone about this very differently but ACL have took the piss out of our club for too long in my opinion.

Your right, the previous owners messed up big time.
Unfortunately that means that CCFC will never (ever) own the stadium they play in.
I prefer the council to own it than some faceless hedge fund.

 

[italiahorse]

Did they?? that deal was probably locked in prior to SISU's arrival to be fair

When SISU did that last minute deal I would have thought they had leverage at that time to get that rent down to a fair level.
Or at least taken the sliding scale deal that the previous regime turned down.

 

[blueflint]

Spot on. Breathtaking really.

it doesn't seem ok for ACL to do it but there are correct ways to go about the change not the way SISU has done it thats what appalls me

 

[italiahorse]

Of course I would like to be in the top flight, but just because we were it doesn't mean we have any automatic right to be there like some people think. I would much rather linger in League 1 or the Championship while things get sorted out and we are run within our means than getting into stupid amounts of debt paying players silly money.

Sorted out. What have you seen that is a plan for SISU to sort this out?

I'm not saying buy our way there I'm saying the SISU plan of a new stadium will halt any real chance of getting back.
I for one supported SISU in getting the wage bill down last year but moving us out of Coventry is stupid, and fatal IMHO if it is long term.

 

[sky blue john]

And what's the difference with a massive rent charged by ACL or a massive rent charged by SISU? Does either
scenario help Coventry City Football Club?

I will still answer your question even though you answered mine with another question !!!!!!!!!!!!
Both scenarios bad but the Sisu version will be worse because Ccfc will pay for building the stadium but Arvo will own it and on top of paying rent we will be paying Sisu's admin fees !!!!

 

[italiahorse]

Is there much difference to it being a small stadium that is near enough full owned by SISU charging a massive rent compared to a big stadium thats near enough empty with ACL charging massive rent?

Either way, massive rent but for some reason it seems OK for ACL to do it?

No difference whatsoever, except SISU are more likely than the council in the future, to force CCFC out and build a more profitable ASDA on their newly developed retail park.

 

[Nick]

Sorted out. What have you seen that is a plan for SISU to sort this out?

Cutting costs for a start. I am by no means saying they will be a saviours and we will be in the champions league within 5 years.

IF, I Note IF they do build a stadium and they do have it so the club gets a benefit from the income then it would be a good move.

 

[Nick]

No difference whatsoever, except SISU are more likely than the council in the future, to force CCFC out and build a more profitable ASDA on their newly developed retail park.

Why wouldn't they just build a retail park from the off though?

 

[stupot07]

Is that similar to the “Quest for Premiership status” since we moved into the Ricoh?
I don’t and won’t go to Sixfields (or on the hill) and won’t go away either until we are back in Coventry, preferably at the Ricoh.

Remind me, what have I got to change my views about again?

He obviously fell for Fletchers 'Operation Premiership' hook line and sinker......which is ironic if you heard Micky Adams on cwr the other week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Nick says....Fix it yourself then if you are going to be like that!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked you for help, and the only time you said anything was to give me a bollocking for asking on a thread being used for another subject, and saying "Try another browser" nothing more was said or asked apart from me saying "Nothing seems to work!.................@ covmark...You asked if I was ten?........Ask Nick how old he is after saying this...."Fix it yourself then if you are going to be like that!" and...."I have tried to help, but I'm not going to bother if you can't even be polite and it is only you having the issue.".....................I was being polite when I originally asked for help...It was YOU that wasn't!...

 

[italiahorse]

Football finance experts seem to disagree with you and (shock horror!) OSB too.

Where is the evidence from financial experts, other a standard "you need all the income streams" ?

OSB stated in his recent sum up of where we are.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/36894-Where-do-things-stand-now.

Humble pie browning off !!

 

[torchomatic]

And where have you read that SISU will do this.

No difference whatsoever, except SISU are more likely than the council in the future, to force CCFC out and build a more profitable ASDA on their newly developed retail park.