Do we even miss Hamer? (2 Viewers)

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
But we've got a very different team now. The answer to the question is no.

We’ve just signed a player with similarities to
Hamer (according to MR) so it’s not all that different. We built our team and the style of play based on Hamer being with us until Jan before the fait accompli given by his agent.

MR and his team are all about continuous improvement. CM is one of the few areas we haven’t actually improved on since we got promoted to the Championship.

How some people can say it’s the best position in our team is beyond me.
 

itsabuzzard

Well-Known Member
We’ve just signed a player with similarities to
Hamer (according to MR) so it’s not all that different. We built our team and the style of play based on Hamer being with us until Jan before the fait accompli given by his agent.

MR and his team are all about continuous improvement. CM is one of the few areas we haven’t actually improved on since we got promoted to the Championship.

How some people can say it’s the best position in our team is beyond me.
So getting back to the OP question, do you miss Hamer?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
So getting back to the OP question, do you miss Hamer?

Yes. We’d be a better outfit with him in the team.

Overall, we had to sell Gyokeres and Hamer to build a better team and we have. In preseason I said something along the lines that the loss Hamer and Gyokeres could be beneficial in the long term.
 

itsabuzzard

Well-Known Member
Yes. We’d be a better outfit with him in the team.

Overall, we had to sell Gyokeres and Hamer to build a better team and we have. In preseason I said something along the lines that the loss Hamer and Gyokeres could be beneficial in the long term.
We sold them because they wanted to leave. I'd agree we've built a better team.
 

Legia Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Some people really do dislike Hamer, I guess on the basis of the sort of stuff Saddlebrains wrote, and also by his social interaction with our fans, which always seems to piss off elements of our fanbase for some reason (Biamou and Baker being other previous examples). While Saddlebrains has had some ITK moments, they have undoubtedly been at an under 50% hit rate overall, and his remarks about Hamer have a bitter made up sound about them, based on false narratives made up on this site during the Summer. I very much doubt Sheff U are paying anyone £50k a week for starters! The other stuff about him wanting to go back to Holland, and playing us off on his domestic issues was pure hyperbole made up on these message boards.

If Hamer had played us like claimed I'm pretty sure MR or DK would have made an issue of it, and he wouldn't have been welcomed back on his various visits to watch us. I'm sure in an ideal world Hamer didn't really want to leave, having just had the most successful season of his career with us, but being a professional footballer he would have been deemed stupid not to go to play in the PL (even for Sheff U) and earn more money in the process, just as with O'Hare if he goes to Burnley or whoever.

As for the OP's question. Yes we miss him, just as we miss Gyok. They were outstanding players for us and if they were in our squad now we would have the base of a team that could not only go up, but one that might stay up once there. Of course the reality is we needed them to go to generate the money for those new players that are now forming into a new successful team. Why we can't just get on and be happy with that, without slagging off an ex player who served us well, and whose sale has helped provide the funding for this new team I don't know.
 

rexo87

Well-Known Member
He’s not disciplined enough positionally to play next to Sheaf in this formation. He’d probably play in COH’s position


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PVA

Well-Known Member
That wasn't the question.

I know but some people have said it.

And to answer the question, yes we do miss the best midfielder in the division last season. And that is absolutely no criticism of Sheaf and Eccles, who are excellent.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
He’s not disciplined enough positionally to play next to Sheaf in this formation. He’d probably play in COH’s position


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Hamer and Sheaf played behind COH when we played 3-4-1-2 / the box. The formation favours Hamer’s style more, not less.

The season, when teams try to counter us, Wright and Sakamoto will track back to fill in if Eccles and Sheaf aren’t in position. In 3-4-1-2 earlier in the season, we struggled if JDS or MVE too high up the pitch, which they tended to be because we didn’t play with wingers.

The difference last season is that we were happy to absorb opposition attacks before being the most direct team on the counter.

In Hamer can play next to Sheaf and behind COH in a 3-4-1-2/3-4-2-1 formation, why would he not be able to play with the exact same players in a 4-2-3-1?
 

Cheylesmore ITK

Well-Known Member
Hamer and Sheaf played behind COH when we played 3-4-1-2 / the box. The formation favours Hamer’s style more, not less.

The season, when teams try to counter us, Wright and Sakamoto will track back to fill in if Eccles and Sheaf aren’t in position. In 3-4-1-2 earlier in the season, we struggled if JDS or MVE too high up the pitch, which they tended to be because we didn’t play with wingers.

The difference last season is that we were happy to absorb opposition attacks before being the most direct team on the counter.

In Hamer can play next to Sheaf and behind COH in a 3-4-1-2/3-4-2-1 formation, why would he not be able to play with the exact same players in a 4-2-3-1?
It's about defensive cover.

In a 3 man defence you will have the back 3, the other midfielder and possibly one of the wingbacks being part of the "rest defence" i.e. staying in defensive positions which allows the 2nd CM to position himself in a more forward position.

In the current system when the opposition transition to an attacking phase we usually have the whole back 4 and the 2 midfields as part of the rest defence.

The argument is Hamer would not sit as much as needed making us vulnerable in transitions.
 

rexo87

Well-Known Member
Hamer and Sheaf played behind COH when we played 3-4-1-2 / the box. The formation favours Hamer’s style more, not less.

The season, when teams try to counter us, Wright and Sakamoto will track back to fill in if Eccles and Sheaf aren’t in position. In 3-4-1-2 earlier in the season, we struggled if JDS or MVE too high up the pitch, which they tended to be because we didn’t play with wingers.

The difference last season is that we were happy to absorb opposition attacks before being the most direct team on the counter.

In Hamer can play next to Sheaf and behind COH in a 3-4-1-2/3-4-2-1 formation, why would he not be able to play with the exact same players in a 4-2-3-1?

Because he had 3 centre backs behind him previously


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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Forgive me but my first impression of you are rather low.

I'm not sure you even watch us play given your frankly criminal lack of knowledge about our tactics and football in general.

You’re forgiven. I couldn’t give a fuck what your impressions of me are.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
If this new influx isn’t Boosh then god forbid we ever reach the Prem. It’ll be like permanent school holidays in here.
 

rexo87

Well-Known Member
It’s the transitions that I don’t think would work. Currently when we are forwards only the 2 CBs and Eccles who are sitting behind the ball. Hamer would be joining in those attacks.

You could say that if we had Hamer then Sheaf could play the Eccles role slightly deeper but then we wouldn’t get the best out of Sheaf that we currently are.

I think a midfield 3 of Eccles/Torp, Sheaf and Hamer would work but then I don’t see where Ohare would fit in


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Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Because he had 3 centre backs behind him previously


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It's about defensive cover.

In a 3 man defence you will have the back 3, the other midfielder and possibly one of the wingbacks being part of the "rest defence" i.e. staying in defensive positions which allows the 2nd CM to position himself in a more forward position.

In the current system when the opposition transition to an attacking phase we usually have the whole back 4 and the 2 midfields as part of the rest defence.

The argument is Hamer would not sit as much as needed making us vulnerable in transitions.

Hamer wasn’t a bad defender and it was never the case that we played 3 CBs to allow Hamer and Sheaf to play together. Hamer is not a CAM and has alway been a CM who is good on and off the ball.

The way Eccles and Sheaf get forward in the current system goes against the claim Hamer couldn’t play with Sheaf in our current midfield. Frankly, we’re a more attacking outfit and Hamer would add to that.

This is just silly talk now. Hamer is a better player than both Sheaf and Eccles and we could play any formation and he’d be selected to play.
 
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skyblue_55

Well-Known Member
Personally I would love Gus back , he was a superb player & his love for this club & us fans in general , was second to none .
He would fit in with whatever system we adopt , or whatever personnel we have ….. a class act !
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Hamer wasn’t a bad defender and it was never the case that we played 3 CBs to allow Hamer and Sheaf to play together. Hamer is not a CAM and has alway been a CM who is good on and off the ball.

The way Eccles and Sheaf get forward in the current system goes against the claim Hamer couldn’t play with Sheaf in our current midfield. Frankly, we’re a more attacking outfit and Hamer would add to that.

This is just silly talk now. Hamer is a better player than both Sheaf and Eccles and we could play any formation and he’d be selected to play.
That's true but the thread title was "Do we miss him", I argue we do not based purely on results.

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PVA

Well-Known Member
You could say that if we had Hamer then Sheaf could play the Eccles role slightly deeper but then we wouldn’t get the best out of Sheaf that we currently are.

You're right we probably wouldn't. But the best of Hamer is better than the best of Sheaf in an attacking sense. So Sheaf would sit, and would do a great job as he is one of the best ball winning midfielders in the division.

I love Eccles, but Hamer walks into this side and we'd be a better team for it.
 

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