Gazolba
Well-Known Member
We're just a small insignificant island. Can we really be expected to defeat a massive country like Australia? Australia will be beating us at football next.
Rugby World Cup (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter bringbackrattles
- Start date
We're just a small insignificant island. Can we really be expected to defeat a massive country like Australia? Australia will be beating us at football next.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Population doesn't count for much in sport as New Zealand show. What matters is a) infrastructure, b) enthusiasm and c) natural talent. Choking against Wales was typical of what the team has done under Lancaster, though not as bad as the cricket where the tournament is designed to almost guarantee us a place in the knock out.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Hopefully next time round the organisers will give us going into games, a 100 run start in cricket, a 14 point lead in rugby union and 2 own goals in our favour in football.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Or there is an 'upside down' clause whereby the tables are inverted if we fail to qualify conventionally.
Juggernaut
New Member
No point in going into major detail about this, were a young side and the 2019 World Cup was always the aim anyway. In reality this World Cup came to soon for our group, having home advantage I thought would have propelled us up but unfortunately it dragged us down and heaped pressure on us we just couldn't handle.
At this moment in time we are not as good at Rugby as Wales and Austrailia, no need to rip up any plans (which is what English people want us to do after national failure) we just need to stick at the original plan and keep on improving. Lancaster should 100% stay.
At this moment in time we are not as good at Rugby as Wales and Austrailia, no need to rip up any plans (which is what English people want us to do after national failure) we just need to stick at the original plan and keep on improving. Lancaster should 100% stay.
All reasonable assumptions Juggernaut, but I'd argue that I think we've regressed over the last two years
WC came too late for Lancaster, England and the players.
I think we were better equipped then.
Whether It's Lancaster or not we've gone backwards
My position Is Its down to him.
rd45
Well-Known Member
Lancaster seems a nice enough bloke & talks a good game but his sides have all choked on the big occasion. Do you think he knows what his best back line is, even now? Has to go. Get a Southern Hemisphere boss next time who doesn't give one about the history/pressure/newspapers.
bringbackrattles
Well-Known Member
Paddy's just won Houch. I reckon I'm turning Irish as I was on the Guinness yesterday !Oh dear! Ah well. Ireland will show them how it's done!!
bringbackrattles
Well-Known Member
Hooch !
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Moff
Well-Known Member
I see that the press are now reporting some disharmony from the England squad about, Andy Farrells influence, ie) dropping the more expansive George Ford for his son Owen Farrell.
Its also been reported that the squad were less than impressed at Luther Burrell not making the squad to be replcaed by Sam Burgess. I made this point at the start of the tournment and Burgess was a contsant accident waiting to happen who got picked based on one half against France in a warm up game, whilst the reliable Burrell ever present for nearly two years got binned. Lancaster is an arse.
Its also been reported that the squad were less than impressed at Luther Burrell not making the squad to be replcaed by Sam Burgess. I made this point at the start of the tournment and Burgess was a contsant accident waiting to happen who got picked based on one half against France in a warm up game, whilst the reliable Burrell ever present for nearly two years got binned. Lancaster is an arse.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I don't dislike him, I actually think we played well in spurts, we're unlucky with the group (we're a better side than a couple who'll make the knockout stages) and I can even 'accept' us losing to Australia as they just played better of two decent teams.
The way we collapsed against Wales though...
And ultimately we don't look like winners. So ultimately given the fact we played well in patches so have the talent in the side, you probably have to blame the coach for us not being able to close games out, or hit the level consistently enough.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I agree it does pretty much rest with the coaching staff - the decision with bringing ford on and moving Farrell over was odd; but the media will push this "failure" far more than it needs to be done. They lost the Wales game because Biggar's kicking was tremendous, and at the final hurdle they threw to no.2 in the lineout - the initial decision was the right one IMO. They went for hero or zero and it didn't work - that is life. Let's not pretend this team is anywhere near as good as the 2003 one. People need to wake up.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I don't even blame the lineout throw, such is life. It paid off for Japan going for the win, after all! But you're right, after making a controversial call and, tbf, it working, to change the side and lose momentum was a bit crazy. Given Wales' injuries as well, to relinquish the grip England had on the game boils down to the coaching staff and a lack of faith in themselves, if anything.
And this is what divides the better teams, the ability to plan better and get the best out of a team. Australia have turned themselves around, Wales have a plan that never really changes, but they play to their strengths. England... chop and change and never seem confident in themselves.
And this is what divides the better teams, the ability to plan better and get the best out of a team. Australia have turned themselves around, Wales have a plan that never really changes, but they play to their strengths. England... chop and change and never seem confident in themselves.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
No they lost the Wales game because they were poorly disciplined and had the game wrapped up. They lost their structure and an intelligent wales team took advantage of this. I last decision really shouldnt have been a factor albeit i bet he wished he went for a draw. Aussies would have blown us out of the water regardless in my opinion
Moff
Well-Known Member
I agree some of the criticism has been harsh, but genuinelly many people could not see England winning the tournament, and I was one of them.
Lancaster is a nice bloke, but like him the team lack a killer instinct, as shown by the year on year defeats when a win would have won a Grand Slam or 6 Nations Championship. They are always thereabouts but never there and with the pool of players and finances we have just isnt good enough.
Personally I am a great fan of Wales and what Warren Gatland has done. He knows his players well, sticks to winning formations and has instilled a belief, work ethic, team ethic and winning mentatility that England just dont have. They also can play some fantastic flowing Rugby, which again England seem short of.
As mentioned before I think some of the England squad and team selections have been poor, and this coupled with our mentality has left us out of the competition.
bringbackrattles
Well-Known Member
Let's face facts England don't do World Cups in most sports,Football,Rugby,Cricket. So who's going to win the trophy ? Could South Africa even after losing to Japan ? The All Blacks haven't exactly been on fire as yet but you can guarantee they'll step up a gear or two. Could it be an outsider like France ? Love to see a home nation team go all the way though.I pondered on an Australia v New Zealand final before it started but still unsure !
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Isn't that true of English teams in any sport and even English sportsmen and women in general? We are brought up to believe sportsmanship is more important than winning whereas to other nationalities winning is everything. Thus the English start out with a massive handicap in almost any sporting endeavour they attempt.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
England only conceded 1 more penalty than Wales.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I don't see any other outcome to be honest. Northern Hemisphere is not good enough. France can beat anyone on their day though so could be the upset nation.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
RFU getting slaughtered in the media for there selection policy of not selecting players playing abroad
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Won't pick players playing abroad in the 21st century cosmopolitan society but will allow a club to move 90 miles from its community.....
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Works for New Zealand.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
...yet doesn't work for us......
Tbf, from what I've read the New Zealand players all bugger off for 2-3 years playing abroad and in Europe gaining that experience of different coaches, different styles of play, before returning to New Zealand for the World Cup year to get picked. That said they have a pool of better quality player than we do, so can afford to leave people out.
Arguably our best player doesn't get picked because he's plays abroad.
In football, I don't think enough of our players go and get experience abroad, it would improve the national side. Can you imagine Argentina not picking Messi, Ageuro, etc or Portugal not picking Ronaldo because they don't play in their country of origin?
Seems the RFU want to have their cake and eat it, signing a big money deal which will help clubs bring the best talent in including bringing in the best foreign players to improve their league, increase interest and therefore make it more profitable, but don't want a to let English players play abroad.
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Covstu
Well-Known Member
which helped them win the game???
Covstu
Well-Known Member
...yet doesn't work for us......
Tbf, from what I've read the New Zealand players all bugger off for 2-3 years playing abroad and in Europe gaining that experience of different coaches, different styles of play, before returning to New Zealand for the World Cup year to get picked. That said they have a pool of better quality player than we do, so can afford to leave people out.
Arguably our best player doesn't get picked because he's plays abroad.
In football, I don't think enough of our players go and get experience abroad, it would improve the national side. Can you imagine Argentina not picking Messi, Ageuro, etc or Portugal not picking Ronaldo because they don't play in their country of origin?
Seems the RFU want to have their cake and eat it, signing a big money deal which will help clubs bring the best talent in including bringing in the best foreign players to improve their league, increase interest and therefore make it more profitable, but don't want a to let English players play abroad.
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nope those other countries have sense. Australia pick people from outside of their country dont they??
Anyway every knows its Sam Burgess's fault! :facepalm:
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yep, Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell play for Toulon, Wales have players that play in France and England as do Scotland, South Africa have players that play in England, France, Ireland and Japan, Ireland have McConnell who plays for Toulon.....
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