Hillary / US Election Thread (2 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

Obama would wipe him off the map

Probs. Michelle for 8 then Chelsea for 8. Then Obama's smartest daughter. and so on..

 

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[dutchman]

The Democrats don't understand why they lost and they still won't understand in four or eight year's time.

Likewise the union bosses don't understand why their own members voted for Trump when they were told to vote for Hillary.

 

[Kingokings204]

Well whatever way you look at it trump is the next president of the USA so we can argue all we like to the cows come home and Clinton voters can riot but we have a democratically elected president and you may as well give him a chance. I would of voted for him rather than Clinton simply for change. It clearly doesn't work for a lot of Americans and this was their say. If they don't like him and he does shit (which is possible) guess what you can vote him out. That's the beauty to it. It's why we have elections. If he does well he will get elected again and if he doesn't then he will be toast very quickly. That's how it should be in my opinion.

 

[dutchman]

He voted for Trump:

 

[martcov]

Well whatever way you look at it trump is the next president of the USA so we can argue all we like to the cows come home and Clinton voters can riot but we have a democratically elected president and you may as well give him a chance. I would of voted for him rather than Clinton simply for change. It clearly doesn't work for a lot of Americans and this was their say. If they don't like him and he does shit (which is possible) guess what you can vote him out. That's the beauty to it. It's why we have elections. If he does well he will get elected again and if he doesn't then he will be toast very quickly. That's how it should be in my opinion.

Well he has 4 years as the most powerful man in the Western world and as such represents our values.

He has won by bringing bullshit to a new level. He has repeated simple slogans without explaining how he is going to put his policies into practice.

He has used racist, homophobic statements and anti one religious group statements to divide and rule.

Hate crimes have started to surge because as some attackers have said "we've got a real president now".

The guy controls the nuclear button, wants to punish women who have abortion, doesn't accept climate change, wants to break free trade agreements and is anti gay.

The USA will be run as a construction company- which is good for people in that business, but the financing may mean the end of the NATO we know.

Your mates Farage and Johnson are over the moon. Bullshit has been proved to be the deciding factor yet again.

You must be so proud to support these people.

 

[Otis]

Well he has 4 years as the most powerful man in the Western world and as such represents our values.

He has won by bringing bullshit to a new level. He has repeated simple slogans without explaining how he is going to put his policies into practice.

He has used racist, homophobic statements and anti one religious group statements to divide and rule.

Hate crimes have started to surge because as some attackers have said "we've got a real president now".

The guy controls the nuclear button, wants to punish women who have abortion, doesn't accept climate change, wants to break free trade agreements and is anti gay.

The USA will be run as a construction company- which is good for people in that business, but the financing may mean the end of the NATO we know.

Your mates Farage and Johnson are over the moon. Bullshit has been proved to be the deciding factor yet again.

You must be so proud to support these people.

His whole campaign was divisive and spiteful and now the second has won he's suddenly all conciliatory and asks to bring the country together.

Shows him up for the man he is.

 

[clint van damme]

Well he has 4 years as the most powerful man in the Western world and as such represents our values.

He has won by bringing bullshit to a new level. He has repeated simple slogans without explaining how he is going to put his policies into practice.

He has used racist, homophobic statements and anti one religious group statements to divide and rule.

Hate crimes have started to surge because as some attackers have said "we've got a real president now".

The guy controls the nuclear button, wants to punish women who have abortion, doesn't accept climate change, wants to break free trade agreements and is anti gay.

The USA will be run as a construction company- which is good for people in that business, but the financing may mean the end of the NATO we know.

Your mates Farage and Johnson are over the moon. Bullshit has been proved to be the deciding factor yet again.

You must be so proud to support these people.

He also managed to have a casino go bust on him which is a bit worrying when he's in charge of the worlds largest economy.

 

[Otis]

He also managed to have a casino go bust on him which is a bit worrying when he's in charge of the worlds largest economy.

Yeah, I didn't know about that.

I knew he had a business go bust, but didn't know it was a casino.

How do you lose money on a casino?

 

[Kingokings204]

Well he has 4 years as the most powerful man in the Western world and as such represents our values.

He has won by bringing bullshit to a new level. He has repeated simple slogans without explaining how he is going to put his policies into practice.

He has used racist, homophobic statements and anti one religious group statements to divide and rule.

Hate crimes have started to surge because as some attackers have said "we've got a real president now".

The guy controls the nuclear button, wants to punish women who have abortion, doesn't accept climate change, wants to break free trade agreements and is anti gay.

The USA will be run as a construction company- which is good for people in that business, but the financing may mean the end of the NATO we know.

Your mates Farage and Johnson are over the moon. Bullshit has been proved to be the deciding factor yet again.

You must be so proud to support these people.

They offer change Mart. We can argue all day long about policticans. They all lie and all say weird and horrible things. It's a vote. People decide and guess what if you don't like them or they have been racist or homophobic and been shit in their job you vote them out. Get rid of them. I would do the same.

My point was he has been democratically elected and instead of moaning about it how about understand how such a man has got the job. That's the bigger question IMO.

 

[clint van damme]

They offer change Mart. We can argue all day long about policticans. They all lie and all say weird and horrible things. It's a vote. People decide and guess what if you don't like them or they have been racist or homophobic and been shit in their job you vote them out. Get rid of them. I would do the same.

My point was he has been democratically elected and instead of moaning about it how about understand how such a man has got the job. That's the bigger question IMO.

you make a very good point. I think with Brexit you can never over state the influence the main stream media had on the vote as they were almost overwhelmingly pro leave.
Trumps situation was different, he had a lot of the main stream media against him but still won the election.

 

[martcov]

you make a very good point. I think with Brexit you can never over state the influence the main stream media had on the vote as they were almost overwhelmingly pro leave.
Trumps situation was different, he had a lot of the main stream media against him but still won the election.

The common denominator being the extent to which Trump and Brexit lied. Their target audience being the least educated. They played on resentment. The bigger question being will their claims come true and will they honour their promises? We will see.

 

[Captain Dart]

They offer change Mart. We can argue all day long about policticans. They all lie and all say weird and horrible things. It's a vote. People decide and guess what if you don't like them or they have been racist or homophobic and been shit in their job you vote them out. Get rid of them. I would do the same.

My point was he has been democratically elected and instead of moaning about it how about understand how such a man has got the job. That's the bigger question IMO.

Here is one for the remainers... Clinton (marginally) won the popular vote but Trump is a clear victor in the electoral college.
Trump 59,937,338 votes
Clinton 60,274,974 votes
Others 6,149,297 votes
What is odd is that the Others total (apparently there is an other slot on the ballot) is about 7 times what it usually is, wonder what other they voted, was it spoiled ballots or Bernie or that loony Libetarian?

 

[clint van damme]

The common denominator being the extent to which Trump and Brexit lied. Their target audience being the least educated. They played on resentment. The bigger question being will their claims come true and will they honour their promises? We will see.

I can understand that with Brexit because a compliant media carried the lies and there was little objection.
Trump didn't have that. Certainly not to the extent of Brexit. So how did he get people on board?

 

[chiefdave]

Your mates Farage

Rumours of him being given a job by Trump. Envoy to the EU or some such rubbish.

He also managed to have a casino go bust on him which is a bit worrying when he's in charge of the worlds largest economy.

When you look at his CV there's a lot that would make you concerned about giving him a high level job let alone making him president. Kicked out of school at 13, avoided the draft four or five times, six bankruptcies. Without his father being able to fund him millions for his various real estate endeavours you can't really see him having been a successful businessman.

He voted for Trump

Equally worrying is the reports of open racism. People that hold those views seems to have taken Trumps victory as a signal that they don't have to hide their racism. Muslims, Latino's and blacks all reporting racial incidents.

 

[martcov]

I can understand that with Brexit because a compliant media carried the lies and there was little objection.
Trump didn't have that. Certainly not to the extent of Brexit. So how did he get people on board?

He was on TV nearly every day - even if he was being negatively reported. Crowds shouting USA USA USA .. All his suggestions to gun holders, threatening to arrest the opposition candidate etc etc

Build a wall - who in America missed that?

I saw one calculation that the airtime devoted to Trump was worth 2 billion dollars. What some of us thought of as bad publicity - racism, homophobia, asking Putin to hack Hillary's emails, his supporters to beat up hecklers etc etc was doubtless lapped up by many people.... As the increase in hate crime in the USA, and as in post Brexit britain, shows.... The rhetoric has given people the feeling that they can bring their hatred into the open....

Now comes the time to put his promises into action. Estimated costs for the wall are 20 billion dollars - to be paid for by Mexico.......

He played the media brilliantly - as he himself said at the beginning. He didn't need a big budget before he was nominated. He was the most reported republican candidate..

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

you make a very good point. I think with Brexit you can never over state the influence the main stream media had on the vote as they were almost overwhelmingly pro leave.
Trumps situation was different, he had a lot of the main stream media against him but still won the election.

I politely disagree on that one.

For every one article there was for pro-leave, there was another 9 on the BBC, Independent, Guardian etc for remaining in the EU.

I know you won't agree with me, but I feel a lot of the reason why Brexit happend and Trump won is because the media were so busy pushing one agenda that helped along with the government and a lot of SJW's that many people in the middle felt bullied to vote remain and hillary, and ultimately rebelled.

 

[clint van damme]

I politely disagree on that one.

For every one article there was for pro-leave, there was another 9 on the BBC, Independent, Guardian etc for remaining in the EU.

I know you won't agree with me, but I feel a lot of the reason why Brexit happend and Trump won is because the media were so busy pushing one agenda that helped along with the government and a lot of SJW's that many people in the middle felt bullied to vote remain and hillary, and ultimately rebelled.

if you think that the msm in this country is predominantly left wing you're insane.
Sun,Star, Telegraph, Mail, Express, Sky all pro brexit and with a far greater circulation that the Guardian, the Mirror and the Independent.
The Sun was happy to peddle all the big lies of the Brexit campaign including the 350m for the NHS.
I don't even think the BBC is left wing but that may depend on how right wing you are.
You're point may be valid regarding the USA election.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

if you think that the msm in this country is predominantly left wing you're insane.
Sun,Star, Telegraph, Mail, Express, Sky all pro brexit and with a far greater circulation that the Guardian, the Mirror and the Independent.
The Sun was happy to peddle all the big lies of the Brexit campaign including the 350m for the NHS.
I don't even think the BBC is left wing but that may depend on how right wing you are.
You're point may be valid regarding the USA election.

It depends what you class as the msm. Certainly the daily mail, sun etc are one way, but their influence is not comparable to something like the BBC. They must be the most popular news source in the UK by a mile. They were so anti-brexit and anti-Trump it was unreal. They are also (perhaps past tense now) more trusted than rags like the daily mail. The Guardian had also cemented itself as a more intelligent newspaper, but imo really let itself down in the last year.

The problem is that a lot of people on the losing sides cannot understand why people voted the way they did, they blame lies such as the NHS bus and a rise in fascism. I mean, I have spoken to countless people voting each way, not one has said they voted leave due to that '350m' or due to the daily mail printing pictures of refugees in negative light, or because they don't like people from other countries (of course anyone that doesn't almost certainly did vote leave, but they don't make up the majority whatsoever). It isn't as black and white as that in my opinion.

I personally feel if the media contributed to anything, it contributed to a rebellion which saw these two things come to fruition.

 

[clint van damme]

It depends what you class as the msm. Certainly the daily mail, sun etc are one way, but their influence is not comparable to something like the BBC. They must be the most popular news source in the UK by a mile. They were so anti-brexit and anti-Trump it was unreal. They are also (perhaps past tense now) more trusted than rags like the daily mail. The Guardian had also cemented itself as a more intelligent newspaper, but imo really let itself down in the last year.

The problem is that a lot of people on the losing sides cannot understand why people voted the way they did, they blame lies such as the NHS bus and a rise in fascism. I mean, I have spoken to countless people voting each way, not one has said they voted leave due to that '350m' or due to the daily mail printing pictures of refugees in negative light, or because they don't like people from other countries (of course anyone that doesn't almost certainly did vote leave, but they don't make up the majority whatsoever). It isn't as black and white as that in my opinion.

I personally feel if the media contributed to anything, it contributed to a rebellion which saw these two things come to fruition.

who's going to admit to that?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

who's going to admit to that?

All the thick, bigoted, racist, fascist, intolerant people we keep hearing about?

 

[clint van damme]

All the thick, bigoted, racist, fascist, intolerant people we keep hearing about?

there was a woman crying on 5live because voting leave based on the NHS lie,and then farage announced it wasn't true. I think even the terminally stupid realised that they'd been duped and most people would keep that to themselves.

Of course many other people voted for may different reasons but those lies certainly snared some voters- why do you think the leave campaign went to the trouble of making up the lie and sticking it on the side of a double decker bus?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

there was a woman crying on 5live because voting leave based on the NHS lie,and then farage announced it wasn't true. I think even the terminally stupid realised that they'd been duped and most people would keep that to themselves.

Of course many other people voted for may different reasons but those lies certainly snared some voters- why do you think the leave campaign went to the trouble of making up the lie and sticking it on the side of a double decker bus?

Yeah, of course there were some people that voted that way. The side of the media I've been talking about did their very best to take people like that and plaster them as the poster boys and girls of the leave/Trump vote though. They don't represent the majority remotely, but it is being portrayed that way. I mean, I haven't heard almost a single person who voted leave for a good reason put in the spotlight. This is because:

1) The media and establishment want it to be seen as a mistake.
2) People who do have good reasoning are too scared to speak out through the worry of being harassed.

That's my take on it anyway. I know we don't necessarily see eye to eye on it.

 

[clint van damme]

Yeah, of course there were some people that voted that way. The side of the media I've been talking about did their very best to take people like that and plaster them as the poster boys and girls of the leave/Trump vote though. They don't represent the majority remotely, but it is being portrayed that way. I mean, I haven't heard almost a single person who voted leave for a good reason put in the spotlight. This is because:

1) The media and establishment want it to be seen as a mistake.
2) People who do have good reasoning are too scared to speak out through the worry of being harassed.

That's my take on it anyway. I know we don't necessarily see eye to eye on it.

with regard to your statement in bold, if you're talking about Brexit i think you're wrong, if you're talking about Trump. as I said, you may have a point.

However, I think once billionaire property developer Trump selects his first cabinet we will be able to put to bed the notion that he is somehow an anti establishment candidate.

Strong rumours that he is going to appoint a former Goldman Sachs partner as SoS.
Wonder what his little lap dog farage will think of that as he said that's something Trump wouldn't do.

 

[Ashdown]

if you think that the msm in this country is predominantly left wing you're insane.
Sun,Star, Telegraph, Mail, Express, Sky all pro brexit and with a far greater circulation that the Guardian, the Mirror and the Independent.
The Sun was happy to peddle all the big lies of the Brexit campaign including the 350m for the NHS.
I don't even think the BBC is left wing but that may depend on how right wing you are.
You're point may be valid regarding the USA election.

The BBC is pathetically left wing. I for one am sick of their constant attempts at indoctrination. I hope they are targeted soon, because I'm sick of being forced to pay so much money to so bias an organisation.

 

[clint van damme]

The BBC is pathetically left wing. I for one am sick of their constant attempts at indoctrination. I hope they are targeted soon, because I'm sick of being forced to pay so much money to so bias an organisation.

as I said, it depends how right wing your perspective is. It's left wing compared to say Fox news.

 

[Ashdown]

there was a woman crying on 5live because voting leave based on the NHS lie,and then farage announced it wasn't true. I think even the terminally stupid realised that they'd been duped and most people would keep that to themselves.

Of course many other people voted for may different reasons but those lies certainly snared some voters- why do you think the leave campaign went to the trouble of making up the lie and sticking it on the side of a double decker bus?

Whilst the NHS won't benefit in those sorts of numbers £ 350 million per week}, no doubt there will be some money in the pot for health projects from the £8 billion savings per annum.

 

[clint van damme]

Whilst the NHS won't benefit in those sorts of numbers £ 350 million per week}, no doubt there will be some money in the pot for health projects from the £8 billion savings per annum.

so why didn't they put that on the side of a bus?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

as I said, it depends how right wing your perspective is. It's left wing compared to say Fox news.

Academic research generally puts BBC as more impartial than most other news outlets.

(There are of course exceptions, but that's the general trend)

 

[Captain Dart]

if you think that the msm in this country is predominantly left wing you're insane.
Sun,Star, Telegraph, Mail, Express, Sky all pro brexit and with a far greater circulation that the Guardian, the Mirror and the Independent.
The Sun was happy to peddle all the big lies of the Brexit campaign including the 350m for the NHS.
I don't even think the BBC is left wing but that may depend on how right wing you are.
You're point may be valid regarding the USA election.

I think the BBC has a much more left wing stance than the country as a whole.

I also think, in fact I am sure, that paper circulation does not extend to a majority any more.
Circulation is falling all the time, it halved between 2000 & 2010, in another 10 years and it will be half what it is today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...United_Kingdom_by_circulation#2010_to_present
Today roughly 6M newspapers are sold daily.

If people get influenced by MSM it is from the web sites the papers run.

 

[clint van damme]

Academic research generally puts BBC as more impartial than most other news outlets.

(There are of course exceptions, but that's the general trend)

Well they were presented with a 50,000 page petition about their bias against Jeremy Corbyn which even Nick Robinson endorsed!
Some left wing organisation that! Though I think you're right, it is generally fairly impartial.

 

[Ashdown]

so why didn't they put that on the side of a bus?

It wouldn't fit

 

[NorthernWisdom]

it is generally fairly impartial.

Whatever bias a media outlet has (and most have some, a neutral press is a bit of a myth really... although the way to be objective when checking is to see what phrasing they use, and whether they offer quotes from all parties or not, yadda yadda) it's observed mostly by those who disagree with the content, or position taken.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

so why didn't they put that on the side of a bus?

Or alternatively any saving, if it exists (and of that I'm doubtful) will be used to cut taxes further, while the public sector gets squeezed more by some ideological zealots.

 

[Otis]

I don't get this Beeb left wing tag at all.

I would say they are reasonably impartial and there have been times where I have felt they have been rather biased towards the right and got a little narked about it.

I do think it is a bit of an urban myth to be honest.

 

[chiefdave]

Academic research generally puts BBC as more impartial than most other news outlets.

And they get as many complaints about being right wing as they do left wing! Part of the problem is the majority of the commercial media is now so right wing it impacts peoples view of impartiality.