Butts Park Arena is new home (16 Viewers)

[Grendel]

So as usual Grendel is proven to be wrong so he makes a sharp exit from a thread.

Oh dear......

Wrong about what? Frankly it's just getting boring watching you and the other two council loving trolls getting together and back slapping each other.

As FP observed you can't even get the basics right.

But Tony and Martcov like your posts - so I guess that's all that matters.

 

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[Grendel]

Back to Grendel facts...... Where are the posts which I supposedly made? Where is the letter where Joy drops unencumbered? Which is the question that you answered?

I do keep telling you where the letter is. As I've said all genuine CCFC fans will find it very easily.

I guess with you we will be waiting a long long time.

 

[dongonzalos]

You saw the thread. Go back to it again. Took me long enough to get to the end of this one. On my phone and supposed to be getting ready for work

Sorry mate I did see the thread but not what you were actually referring to. Hence I hoped you had it. As I never saw that in the thread, thought to myself where the heck had that comment come from??

 

[dongonzalos]

Is that the same as freehold with no council involvement at all?
As there is a document saying that.
I will hold my hands up and say I don't have a clue at this stage but I don't think in my humble opinion a 125 lease is the same as freehold or nothing is it?

 

[Astute]

Wrong about what? Frankly it's just getting boring watching you and the other two council loving trolls getting together and back slapping each other.

As FP observed you can't even get the basics right.

But Tony and Martcov like your posts - so I guess that's all that matters.

Ah FP. The other one who likes to have a dig at me. What a shock.

So I replied to the dig. I got no reply. And you never replied to my reply. And if I was wrong you would have said something as soon as I sent the post.

So what basics did I get wrong?

 

[Astute]

Sorry mate I did see the thread but not what you were actually referring to. Hence I hoped you had it. As I never saw that in the thread, thought to myself where the heck had that comment come from??

Don't worry. At least it shows that you are willing to have a change of mind. Unlike some on here. Or one especially who will post any old crap so he can make out he wasn't wrong the first time. Hello Grendel.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wrong about what? Frankly it's just getting boring watching you and the other two council loving trolls getting together and back slapping each other.

As FP observed you can't even get the basics right.

But Tony and Martcov like your posts - so I guess that's all that matters.

Do you now accept that SISU said that they wanted the unencumbered freehold? Or is that still fabricated nonsense?

 

[Sick Boy]

Nick must be pretty patient, Tony openly admits to being a troll and having no interest in ccfc and it appears that dongo is locked up in Ann Lucas' dungeon.

Considering his hero-worship of the worst manager in our history, I can only assume that this equates to openly admitting being one of Tony's pals.

 

[covmark]

Nick must be pretty patient, Tony openly admits to being a troll and having no interest in ccfc and it appears that dongo is locked up in Ann Lucas' dungeon.

Considering his hero-worship of the worst manager in our history, I can only assume that this equates to openly admitting being one of Tony's pals.

Ha, you wouldn't believe some of the people who post on here are grown men. If Grendel gave up posting I think some of them wouldn't know what to do with themselves. Oh sorry, 'Grendull' not Grendel. Hilarious.

 

[skybluetony176]

Nick must be pretty patient, Tony openly admits to being a troll and having no interest in ccfc and it appears that dongo is locked up in Ann Lucas' dungeon.

Considering his hero-worship of the worst manager in our history, I can only assume that this equates to openly admitting being one of Tony's pals.

I've never said I have no interest in CCFC. Just that I have no interest in talking about on field stuff on here as I can no longer take the sight seriously. But you keep fabricating the facts. It's what you're best at.

 

[Nick]

I've never said I have no interest in CCFC. Just that I have no interest in talking about on field stuff on here as I can no longer take the sight seriously. But you keep fabricating the facts. It's what you're best at.

You can't take it seriously but put some serious time in on here. Makes sense.

 

[covmark]

I've never said I have no interest in CCFC. Just that I have no interest in talking about on field stuff on here as I can no longer take the sight seriously. But you keep fabricating the facts. It's what you're best at.

What has taking the site seriously got to do with commenting on football. Surely if you think that badly of this forum you just wouldn't post at all.
Methinks you are talking shite.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's funny that when Grendull trips himself up he can always rely upon Bob, Dave and Stuart to come running to catch him with a bit of deflection.

So what do you three think? Do you accept that SISU stated that they want the unencumbered freehold? There's enough links to prove without doubt that they did and repeated it. Can any of you bring yourselves to admit Grendull got it wrong and it isn't fabricated nonsense as he's repeatedly claimed?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Do you now accept that SISU said that they wanted the unencumbered freehold? Or is that still fabricated nonsense?

I think they said that in public, more importantly, in private they wrote directly to the council to state they'd consider a 125 year lease.

Have you ever considered that most public statements used by either side were just negotiating tools? Would you give more credence to a snippet of a public statement or a direct letter?

 

[Nick]

I think they said that in public, more importantly, in private they wrote directly to the council to state they'd consider a 125 year lease.

Have you ever considered that most public statements used by either side were just negotiating tools? Would you give more credence to a snippet of a public statement or a direct letter?

Yep, I'd say it was some sort of negotiation.

 

[Nick]

It's funny that when Grendull trips himself up he can always rely upon Bob, Dave and Stuart to come running to catch him with a bit of deflection.

It's funnier how you say you don't take this place seriously so can't talk about football (in the many football threads) but put in some good shifts in. If most people didn't take it seriously, they wouldn't bother.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think they said that in public, more importantly, in private they wrote directly to the council to state they'd consider a 125 year lease.

Have you ever considered that most public statements used by either side were just negotiating tools? Would you give more credence to a snippet of a public statement or a direct letter?

I accept perfectly that they were probably just negotiation tools. Unfortunately the fact that they were overstated and then under used (I.e. No serious bid was placed) seems to have some posters in denial that they were ever said at all. I think if you look at all the times they've stated unencumbered freehold they've also gone on to state or a long lease although they've always (IIRC) stated that the lease should be wiped clean. Which I've always took to mean that CCC/Higgs basically have to wind up ACL and cover the costs of doing that (happy to be told otherwise if that assumption is wrong) Clearly neither of which was ever going to happen and as the sale of ACL proves, didn't need too.

Now I've had to negotiated a few times and they've always started at opposite ends of the spectrum and met somewhere in the middle.

So after using the "negotiation tools" of unencumbered freehold and clean lease, you'd expect SISU then to come out with another option of buying ACL with a long lease. There is absolutely zero evidence that this ever happened. All we had was AL changed her mind on the train down, which of course she didn't. She clearly stated what wasn't available before she got on the train and I copied and pasted a transcript of the BBC's website (because I know the CT only tells lies on here) earlier in this thread. It's pretty clear that SISU have only ever asked for what they know not to be available.

You yourself pointed out why they wouldn't have done the deal Wasps done for the Ricoh as there was no value in the debt so don't you think it's about time that this myth about SISU being serious about buying ACL was put to bed?

 

[Captain Dart]

Have trouble following the English there. So, she has said she doesn't want unencumbered freehold and would be happy with a lease that could contain restrictions- e.g. in the Butts lease the Rugby Club can only use the stadium for Rugby and cannot knock it down for some other purpose. Have you got a link to her letter? That would clear everything up. What restrictions would she have accepted if she could not get the equivalent of "unencumbered"?

SISU delaying tactic, find something owned by council with strings attached, demand access without strings, call council unreasonable when they don't bend over backwards. It is a PR stunt, PMSL.

 

[Nick]

I accept perfectly that they were probably just negotiation tools. Unfortunately the fact that they were overstated and then under used (I.e. No serious bid was placed) seems to have some posters in denial that they were ever said at all. I think if you look at all the times they've stated unencumbered freehold they've also gone on to state or a long lease although they've always (IIRC) stated that the lease should be wiped clean. Which I've always took to mean that CCC/Higgs basically have to wind up ACL and cover the costs of doing that (happy to be told otherwise if that assumption is wrong) Clearly neither of which was ever going to happen and as the sale of ACL proves, didn't need too.

Now I've had to negotiated a few times and they've always started at opposite ends of the spectrum and met somewhere in the middle.

So after using the "negotiation tools" of unencumbered freehold and clean lease, you'd expect SISU then to come out with another option of buying ACL with a long lease. There is absolutely zero evidence that this ever happened. All we had was AL changed her mind on the train down, which of course she didn't. She clearly stated what wasn't available before she got on the train and I copied and pasted a transcript of the BBC's website (because I know the CT only tells lies on here) earlier in this thread. It's pretty clear that SISU have only ever asked for what they know not to be available.

You yourself pointed out why they wouldn't have done the deal Wasps done for the Ricoh as there was no value in the debt so don't you think it's about time that this myth about SISU being serious about buying ACL was put to bed?

Didn't SISU say about a 125 year lease also?

Also, do we know 100% Wasps wasn't unencumbered? (As to whether it was available or not).

Wasn't AL also playing PR games at this time of her meeting / getting on a train which could have stopped the meetings all together?

 

[Astute]

It's funny that when Grendull trips himself up he can always rely upon Bob, Dave and Stuart to come running to catch him with a bit of deflection.

So what do you three think? Do you accept that SISU stated that they want the unencumbered freehold? There's enough links to prove without doubt that they did and repeated it. Can any of you bring yourselves to admit Grendull got it wrong and it isn't fabricated nonsense as he's repeatedly claimed?

Grendel got it wrong.

But I also find it strange that someone on a football site has nothing to do with football. For all Grendels faults he does go to home games and must have CCFC as his best interest.

 

[Captain Dart]

Grendel is contradicting Les Reid whenever he can - without knowing it.

Maybe Reid has turned to the Dark Side & Grendel is using his Jedi mind numbing tricks to lay him low?

 

[italiahorse]

Grendel got it wrong.

But I also find it strange that someone on a football site has nothing to do with football. For all Grendels faults he does go to home games and must have CCFC as his best interest.

It seems that when Sisu make a statement it is put over by the few as a negotiating tactic.
Why can't these people see that these statements are the reason that Wasps are here and why Wasps will just configure the stadium based on us not being here?

They seem oblivious to the facts already out there and there apparent support of this Sisu tactic just deflects from Sisu putting out any information.

 

[Nick]

It seems that when Sisu make a statement it is put over by the few as a negotiating tactic.
Why can't these people see that these statements are the reason that Wasps are here and why Wasps will just configure the stadium based on us not being here?

They seem oblivious to the facts already out there and there apparent support of this Sisu tactic just deflects from Sisu putting out any information.

Surely the private letters / conversations are more meaningful than what is in the paper?

What about the fact SISU were trying to arrange a meeting, but the council kept leaking everything to the press after it was requested it was confidential? (And the council had said to do the meetings out of the spotlight of the media).

The main reason Wasps are here, is that they were sold it. (Somehow the council didn't feel the need to print all of that info in the paper)

 

[italiahorse]

Didn't SISU say about a 125 year lease also?

Also, do we know 100% Wasps wasn't unencumbered? (As to whether it was available or not).

Wasn't AL also playing PR games at this time of her meeting / getting on a train which could have stopped the meetings all together?

Do you work for Sisu ?
Three statements that could have come from the mouth of Tim Fisher.

 

[italiahorse]

Surely the private letters / conversations are more meaningful than what is in the paper?

So stuff we will never see is more important than a quote to a paper from Sisu top management.
Talk about clutching at straws.

Bite your tongue and say the words "Sisu cocked up and CCC had little choice"

 

[Nick]

Do you work for Sisu ?
Three statements that could have come from the mouth of Tim Fisher.

Yes, I quite clearly work for them.

Aren't 1 and 3 facts? 2 was a question.

 

[Nick]

So stuff we will never see is more important than a quote to a paper from Sisu top management.
Talk about clutching at straws.

Bite your tongue and say the words "Sisu cocked up and CCC had little choice"

Ha, I think most people stopped listening to you trying to preach to them after you were on here demanding they all support SISU. There's no point trying to tell people what to say / think now.

Yes, stuff that happened directly between them is more important than PR crap. For example when Lucas was saying she will meet with Seppalla and go down on the train away from the glare of the media. What we didn't know is that she got a letter saying "yes lets meet and sort it, away from the press, it must be confidential" and then it was in the telegraph. We then know there is a letter saying how disappointed that it had to go through the media.

I don't doubt for a second both / all sides were being dicks behind the scenes, but that's more important than a pr statement.

 

[italiahorse]

Grendel got it wrong.

But I also find it strange that someone on a football site has nothing to do with football. For all Grendels faults he does go to home games and must have CCFC as his best interest.

I must admit I have no desire to comment on the match and tactics.
I prefer to read and 'like' comments from posters who have taken the time and effort to put the post together.
If we loose I just want to switch off for the weekend.

 

[italiahorse]

Ha, I think most people stopped listening to you trying to preach to them after you were on here demanding they all support SISU. There's no point trying to tell people what to say / think now.

Yes, stuff that happened directly between them is more important than PR crap. For example when Lucas was saying she will meet with Seppalla and go down on the train away from the glare of the media. What we didn't know is that she got a letter saying "yes lets meet and sort it, away from the press, it must be confidential" and then it was in the telegraph. We then know there is a letter saying how disappointed that it had to go through the media.

I don't doubt for a second both / all sides were being dicks behind the scenes, but that's more important than a pr statement.

Both sides ? So Sisu as well ?

 

[Nick]

Both sides ? So Sisu as well ?

Yes, my point is that the PR stuff isn't as important as what's actually said when they do meet / speak directly.

 

[italiahorse]

Yes, I quite clearly work for them.

Aren't 1 and 3 facts? 2 was a question.

Loose facts but the timing and detail is critical.
It's like saying Sisu made an offer to Higgs but in reality it was an offer that the conditions could never be met. But hey forget the details.
1 and 3 fall into that category and 2 was a loaded question.

Try some facts about Sisu instead. See if you can be critical about them !!

 

[Nick]

Loose facts but the timing and detail is critical.
It's like saying Sisu made an offer to Higgs but in reality it was an offer that the conditions could never be met. But hey forget the details.
1 and 3 fall into that category and 2 was a loaded question.

Try some facts about Sisu instead. See if you can be critical about them !!

Why was 2 a loaded question? Unless I have missed something.

How is it a loose fact in point 3 about running to the media?

 

[Moff]

It seems that when Sisu make a statement it is put over by the few as a negotiating tactic.
.

You mean like when CCC put over a statement it is put over by the few as a negotiating tactic and so forth.

You cant have it both ways.

 

[Moff]

Do you work for Sisu ?
Three statements that could have come from the mouth of Tim Fisher.

Equally ironic. Do you work for Wasps or CCC?

(Tongue in cheek before anyone throws their dolly showing the mindless childish shit in this post)

 

[Nick]

You mean like when CCC put over a statement it is put over by the few as a negotiating tactic and so forth.

You cant have it both ways.

CCC are a bit different to a dodgy hedge fund though in terms of responsibility.