The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (81 Viewers)

[lewys33]

I have been swaying in the past week, although I am still planning to vote remain.

The economy is the be all and end all, which is the big reason for me. The vicious circle we find ourselves in is defined by that and that alone. 1% change in the economy would render the cost of being an EU member for us (inclusive of the rebate) irrelevant ........ I could write an essay on why I want to vote leave, but why I will be voting to remain however I am feeling lazy today.

 

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[covcity4life]

was planning not to vote cos im not 100% either way but now will prob vote remain to counter the beer swilling chavs who are voting out with their hero farage

 

[Otis]

Doesn't help that you have Cameron and Osbourne on the one side and then Boris and Gove on the other.

 

[lewys33]

Doesn't help that you have Cameron and Osbourne on the one side and then Boris and Gove on the other.

I genuinely don't see how any of them can hold a position of power after this!

 

[covcity4life]

Doesn't help that you have Cameron and Osbourne on the one side and then Boris and Gove on the other.

i get the joke but i tihnk important to look at that point

cameron and osbourne may have their flaws but seriously when you put them up against brois johnson,nigel farage and trump(advocating leave) how can anyone still vote OUT?

 

[mrtrench]

i get the joke but i tihnk important to look at that point

cameron and osbourne may have their flaws but seriously when you put them up against brois johnson,nigel farage and trump(advocating leave) how can anyone still vote OUT?

Possibly they are considering the issues rather than being fans of a particular politician?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Not advising anyone to change their mind but if we weren't in the eu and the voting was to join or stay out what would people do?

 

[covcity4life]

Possibly they are considering the issues rather than being fans of a particular politician?

i am not pretending to be a political expert,i dontt hink this vote should be open to public ideally

but a quick google shows that governer of banks and ex PMs all say stay. and weirdos and racists like boris johnson and farage say leave.

alot of the figures saying leave i have never heard off, looks like they never made it to be successfull in political world.

also seems norway left in 1975 or something and still havent arrnaged a good trade deal with asia

and turkey dangers seem unfounded as they wont enter for decades.

like i said i am no expert and not telling anyone how to vote, but those reasons will be why im voting IN

 

[lewys33]

Not advising anyone to change their mind but if we weren't in the eu and the voting was to join or stay out what would people do?

Completely different scenario.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Completely different scenario.

Not really. Just looking from another perspective.

 

[lewys33]

Not really. Just looking from another perspective.

If we leave the EU the future is unknown (investors don't do unknown). Joining the EU would give you a good idea of what the future would hold. So yes, very different.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Staying in the Eu is to a certain extent and unknown quantity with more countries due to join over the next few years and our negotiation position weakened if we remain. Do we stay with something that doesn't really work for us or try another route that may or may not work for us?

 

[lewys33]

Staying in the Eu is to a certain extent and unknown quantity with more countries due to join over the next few years and our negotiation position weakened if we remain. Do we stay with something that doesn't really work for us or try another route that may or may not work for us?

It isn't unknown, it is quite known (as far as I am concerned). More countries will join. I think I know what you mean about negotiation position (saying if we remain we are accepting it for what it is?), but in all honesty I don't see the big problem that people have. Why don't you think the EU works for us?

 

[covcity4life]

It isn't unknown, it is quite known (as far as I am concerned). More countries will join. I think I know what you mean about negotiation position (saying if we remain we are accepting it for what it is?), but in all honesty I don't see the big problem that people have. Why don't you think the EU works for us?

because immigrants taking all our jobs innit

 

[lewys33]

because immigrants taking all our jobs innit

All those car wash jobs?

For me the only reason a vote out would work, would be if the EU crumbled because of it and everyone wanted out. In my opinion that would probably cause a bigger economy issue than just the UK leaving but could mean that the long term looks better.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

because immigrants taking all our jobs innit

No not like that at all. Its a bit simplisitc and very narrow minded of you if you dont mind me saying.
We are less and less in control of many many things that go on. Laws, rules regulations. As more countries join our voice will be further diluted. Immigration does play a part. We are not able to cope with the mass immigration that has been happening over the last 10 years or so. Thats not solely down to EU membership but I can't see it helping us moving forward as our infrastructure is not coping well at the moment.
I think we could spend our taxes a bit more wisely than we do or are forced to do on certian things if we came out.
There is a big world and big market outside the EU and moving away from it instead of reducing trade might just release the shackles.

 

[Johnnythespider]

I genuinely don't see how any of them can hold a position of power after this!

Boris will be backed by the tory press to become p.m, once he takes over Gove and I.B.S will be back in cabinet.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[SIR ERNIE]

I will be voting out because I believe that the EU is corrupt, dictatorial and restrictive. I can see no benefit to the UK remaining.

I also believe that the UK will in fact vote to leave. I base this on the belief that the polls are forecasting a close-run outcome but cannot factor-in the likelihood that 'leavers' are likely to be more motivated to get up and vote than remainers.

Having said all that, bizarrely from a personal perspective I am hoping for a remain verdict as I have a big import deal dependent upon a strong GBP.

 

[lewys33]

No not like that at all. Its a bit simplisitc and very narrow minded of you if you dont mind me saying.
We are less and less in control of many many things that go on. Laws, rules regulations. As more countries join our voice will be further diluted. Immigration does play a part. We are not able to cope with the mass immigration that has been happening over the last 10 years or so. Thats not solely down to EU membership but I can't see it helping us moving forward as our infrastructure is not coping well at the moment.
I think we could spend our taxes a bit more wisely than we do or are forced to do on certian things if we came out.
There is a big world and big market outside the EU and moving away from it instead of reducing trade might just release the shackles.

Which EU rules do you have a problem with? Have any had an effect on you?

The immigration argument is annoying. Roughly half of immigration this year was from outside of the EU. For me its do either 1 of 2 things. 1) build new towns etc. and anger the country folk that love their greenbelt, or 2) shut the door completely. This middle ground people speak of (only letting skilled people in) will not change a thing if you ask me (you might slightly reduce the number coming in but a vast number will still be coming here).

The EU membership costs us roughly 8.5 billion pounds (inclusive of the rebate) which is roughly 1% of our total economy. So in my opinion I don't think it would make much difference, especially if you are putting the economy at risk by leaving. We have already had massive cuts on public funding, could everything cope if we had to make further cuts (this is short term obviously)?

 

[covcity4life]

dont think out voters are thinking about all the cuts

just think once out everyone walks around waving to each other in utopia

 

[robbiekeane]

I will be voting out because I believe that the EU is corrupt, dictatorial and restrictive. I can see no benefit to the UK remaining.

I also believe that the UK will in fact vote to leave. I base this on the belief that the polls are forecasting a close-run outcome but cannot factor-in the likelihood that 'leavers' are likely to be more motivated to get up and vote than remainers.

Having said all that, bizarrely from a personal perspective I am hoping for a remain verdict as I have a big import deal dependent upon a strong GBP.

Really? I don't know whether to be concerned for you, or whether you're lying

 

[lewys33]

I will be voting out because I believe that the EU is corrupt, dictatorial and restrictive. I can see no benefit to the UK remaining.

I also believe that the UK will in fact vote to leave. I base this on the belief that the polls are forecasting a close-run outcome but cannot factor-in the likelihood that 'leavers' are likely to be more motivated to get up and vote than remainers.

Having said all that, bizarrely from a personal perspective I am hoping for a remain verdict as I have a big import deal dependent upon a strong GBP.

I think it will be a remain vote. The majority of "don't know" will not vote for change. The people who do want change are always the loudest in the run-up to the vote, but that counts for nothing on vote day.

 

[Kingokings204]

A vote leave is a vote for democracy. To have unelected Brussels politicians that you have voted for and can't remove that affect daily life in the UK is bizarre that people still want this and it's certainly not democratic.

Calling farage a racist is interesting as 4 million people including myself voted for ukip just a year ago so 4 million racists in this country. Interesting

 

[Kingokings204]

I will be voting out because I believe that the EU is corrupt, dictatorial and restrictive. I can see no benefit to the UK remaining.

I also believe that the UK will in fact vote to leave. I base this on the belief that the polls are forecasting a close-run outcome but cannot factor-in the likelihood that 'leavers' are likely to be more motivated to get up and vote than remainers.

Having said all that, bizarrely from a personal perspective I am hoping for a remain verdict as I have a big import deal dependent upon a strong GBP.

I'm not sure whether your last comment is a pissstake or not?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Which EU rules do you have a problem with? Have any had an effect on you?

The immigration argument is annoying. Roughly half of immigration this year was from outside of the EU. For me its do either 1 of 2 things. 1) build new towns etc. and anger the country folk that love their greenbelt, or 2) shut the door completely. This middle ground people speak of (only letting skilled people in) will not change a thing if you ask me (you might slightly reduce the number coming in but a vast number will still be coming here).

The EU membership costs us roughly 8.5 billion pounds (inclusive of the rebate) which is roughly 1% of our total economy. So in my opinion I don't think it would make much difference, especially if you are putting the economy at risk by leaving. We have already had massive cuts on public funding, could everything cope if we had to make further cuts (this is short term obviously)?

I am subject to plenty of eu rules and laws via work. It costs me money and lots of time and effort so its not the best starting point.
We have regulations from the EU on where and how the rebate is spent. I'd rather us not pay in and spend it how and where we need to instead of under instruction from someone we have no connection to.
We have massive problems with immigration and not on the jobs front but primarily on public services. Just ignoring it is not going to solve the issue. I'm really not sure how we go about soving it but staying in the EU isn't going to make it get any better with more countries joining.

 

[lewys33]

A vote leave is a vote for democracy. To have unelected Brussels politicians that you have voted for and can't remove that affect daily life in the UK is bizarre that people still want this and it's certainly not democratic.

Calling farage a racist is interesting as 4 million people including myself voted for ukip just a year ago so 4 million racists in this country. Interesting

They are elected by who we elect in to power though.

I am subject to plenty of eu rules and laws via work. It costs me money and lots of time and effort so its not the best starting point.
We have regulations from the EU on where and how the rebate is spent. I'd rather us not pay in and spend it how and where we need to instead of under instruction from someone we have no connection to.
We have massive problems with immigration and not on the jobs front but primarily on public services. Just ignoring it is not going to solve the issue. I'm really not sure how we go about soving it but staying in the EU isn't going to make it get any better with more countries joining.

Explain to me what they are and why they cost you money and lots of time? Not trying to be awkward I am genuinely interested because I have no first hand experience of any EU law etc. effecting me or my work.

Immigration putting pressure on public services is spin. Budget cuts are putting the public services under pressure. The NHS will be privatised within 5 years. Boris and Gove know it as well. Not only that but they will let it happen.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

I'm regulated at work by the FCA. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't exist in their current form if it wasn't for the EU and they certainly wouldn't have been overseeing what I do. Loads of hoops to jump through, massive increases in paperwork, Bi annual accounts submitted and ongoing training are just a few things off the top of my head and I have to pay quite a bit for the pleasure.

Succesive governments tell us how they are putiing more than ever into the NHS. They probably are but when we have 300k new people a year coming in over a 10-15 year period the extra investment is nowhere near enough. Schools are in a similar position. GP's get more money than ever but we wait for weeks to get appointments.

I didn't want to get on the immigration trail as it's only one of plenty of issues with the EU but hey ho.

 

[lewys33]

I'm regulated at work by the FCA. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't exist in their current form if it wasn't for the EU and they certainly wouldn't have been overseeing what I do. Loads of hoops to jump through, massive increases in paperwork, Bi annual accounts submitted and ongoing training are just a few things off the top of my head and I have to pay quite a bit for the pleasure.

Succesive governments tell us how they are putiing more than ever into the NHS. They probably are but when we have 300k new people a year coming in over a 10-15 year period the extra investment is nowhere near enough. Schools are in a similar position. GP's get more money than ever but we wait for weeks to get appointments.

I didn't want to get on the immigration trail as it's only one of plenty of issues with the EU but hey ho.

Well I can't comment on your personal circumstances but I am pretty sure the FCA (or similar) would exist without the EU. I don't buy the schools line. Our population is very old. All the public service problems we have are down to the current government not the EU.

270,000 people entered the country from the EU this year. 277,000 people entered the country from outside the EU. Is the EU the problem?

 

[Kingokings204]

Lewys33

No they are not we have one voice out of 28. We have 1 British commissioner that no we didn't vote for. So Who elects our commissioner to represent us?

We vote for meps who merely get paid to just sit there and nod along. Not bad work if you can get it.

 

[Kingokings204]

Well I can't comment on your personal circumstances but I am pretty sure the FCA (or similar) would exist without the EU. I don't buy the schools line. Our population is very old. All the public service problems we have are down to the current government not the EU.

270,000 people entered the country from the EU this year. 277,000 people entered the country from outside the EU. Is the EU the problem?

I accept those figures but the eu is part of the problem not the sole problem. I've never stated other wise. There is a big problem in general and no one can deny the pressure immigration again contributes not solely causes us as a nation.

Maybe to help clear up how the eu works on regulation and legislation. It creates a million different laws for every different area and product. The reason is because this is costly and timely. This can only be done by big multi national companies who can afford it thus forcing small business to not even compete and then they go bust meaning the big multi nationals can charge what they like with no competition. That's what they want.

When actually if we torn up the rule book and made our own legislations our fishing industry and small businesses could help compete and also trade with the world when this in turn would actually lower food prices and not raise them as stated by the remain side.

 

[chiefdave]

I will be voting out because I believe that the EU is corrupt, dictatorial and restrictive.

So you want to give more power to the totally trustworthy Cameron and Osbourne?

 

[Liquid Gold]

1. Any european laws the conflict with uk laws are only followed at the behest of the uk parliament.
2. We elect officials to the EU Parliament who vote on all legislation, if it doesn't pass elected officials it doesn't become law - turnout for the last European election was 35% in the UK, if more people bothered to vote then it would be more representative.
3. UKIP, who get loads of seats in EU elections, rarely bother to vote and claim loads in expenses. If they are so eurosceptic why don't they try to improve the system rather than just profit from it.
4. Immigrants bring more to our economy, particularly ones from the EU (the ones you'll be voting to be rid of, migration from outside the EU won't be affected). If you think they put a strain on our public services then you have to ask where the money they generate is going.
5. EU regulations are put in place to ensure standardisation of produce amongst the single market, this makes trade easier.

so in summary:
1. They are not taking our sovereignty
2. It isn't undemocratic
3. If you think UKIP are an alternative to corrupt politicians you need to look further at their record.
4. You can't argue against migration from an economic or public service perspective, the best way to cope with immigration would be to vote for a government that would invest rather than asset strip the country.
5. By leaving the EU and setting our own regulations could be easier to some businesses but it would negatively affect trade.

But despite all that the main reason for staying in the EU is to continue to strengthen the incredible European community we have. we live in the longest period of peace this continent has ever had, we can live and work safely wherever we want, we are contributing to the development of weaker nations to ensure, in the future, we have much better trade links and in why, in a world getting smaller by the year, would we want to isolate ourselves, make ourselves look backwards and insular on our small damp island. Lets show we're a forward thinking, intelligent nation and vote to continue being a part of the amazing work the EU has done and continues to do.

 

[Johnnythespider]

A vote leave is a vote for democracy. To have unelected Brussels politicians that you have voted for and can't remove that affect daily life in the UK is bizarre that people still want this and it's certainly not democratic.

Calling farage a racist is interesting as 4 million people including myself voted for ukip just a year ago so 4 million racists in this country. Interesting

I think which ever way the vote goes is democracy in action.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

So you want to give more power to the totally trustworthy Cameron and Osbourne?

More power? What are you talking about?

The 'power' as you put it should be in the hands of the electorate. The power to democratically elect a government.

Which part of that do you disagree with?

 

[dancers lance]

Well I can't comment on your personal circumstances but I am pretty sure the FCA (or similar) would exist without the EU. I don't buy the schools line. Our population is very old. All the public service problems we have are down to the current government not the EU.

270,000 people entered the country from the EU this year. 277,000 people entered the country from outside the EU. Is the EU the problem?

But the one massive difference (that you failed to mention) is that the 277,000 non EU people that were allowed to enter the UK last year would have gone through an extremely complex and stringent process to gain entry. These non EU migrants would have had to prove that they are here to benefit the nation by fitting the skills criteria that we have a shortfall of in this country, also, if they were to even have the slightest blemish on their criminal record they would be refused, no such thing if you are from an EU member state.

How many unskilled, semi literate, convicted murderers do you think we choose to allow into the UK from non EU countries each year?