Break even (37 Viewers)

[Moff]

I bothered with CCFC from 1969 to about a year ago, I make that 46 years of bothering and I will bother about CCFC again when SISU have gone. Until that day I shall save my money, take in a spot of Rugby and do everything I can to make people see where the evil lies.

If you don't think that good enough for me to classify myself as a fan of CCFC then that's up to you.

Off to Coventry Rugby then are you?

 

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[Moff]

The point I'm making is that's it not all okay as people see it. It's not okay to accept it just because the club are doing it. It's not okay to move to Northampton to apply leverage to get a stadium unfairly.
If it's not right then tell them either by contacting them or voting with your feet. Most have already voted.
I go to both Football and Rugby and I'm saying the match day experience is currently better for kids with Wasps. It's not what CCFC fans want to hear but it's factual.
We can all quote someone threw a flag away at school but in reality it's just hiding the actual situation.
Wasps are staying put and again it's not what fans want to hear but it's the reality.
We need to work with that and stop fighting everybody that can help us.
Surely people can see this before we cease to exist.
Unfortunately Sisu don't and once they take on Wasps the writing is on the wall.
Sisu are not fighting for us, they are fighting for their on personal gain and to save their business reputation here, which is in tatters.

1) So its not right for CCFC to move to Northampton, but you endorse another sporting club doing the same?
2) I don't buy that the match day experience is better for kids at Wasps. I have spoken to a few kids who have been. Not one has returned. The football would be better, and was better last season with a winning team. Its funny I didn't hear so much moaning at the start of last season.
3) I can quote about kids throwing away flags, it happened. The fact you took that small part of my story to suit your agenda, shows exactly what you constantly do, write to your agenda. If you cared to look at the bigger picture I was talking about the good work they tried to do, better than CCFC, but ultimately how it failed. As you like saying 'you need to deal with it' It seems you don't like facts that demean Wasps, yet tell us all we have to accept them about CCFC.
4) I like many accept Wasps are here, but don't like the fact. If we work with them, we will still remain an average league one team, in a stadium owned by a Rugby team, owned buy SISU. I think I aspire higher than you for the club.
5) As with everyone else I want SISU gone. Its just unlike you I can see that Wasps being here are a huge problem if SISU ever go, and that possibly Wasps owning the stadium, due to SISUs ineptitude, is why no one will ever want to buy the club, well unless its Wasps and then it just be more of the same. I know that SISU screwed up not buying the ground, but ultimately by Wasps owning it, the club are doomed, but you continue singing their praises as the club goes down the pan.

 

[peeler]

Off to Coventry Rugby then are you?

Nope I've never been to Coventry Rugby in my life, I had no interest in Rugby until I went to a Wasps game, I didn't think I'd like it but I was wrong.

Incidentally just to add another dimension to the augment, my Wife goes with me to the Rugby and she absolutely loves it.

I've only ever taken her to football a couple of times, she's not keen and thinks it boring in comparison.

 

[italiahorse]

So it is bad to remain in this league, so you want to fold the club and start again with the ambition of getting to this league after 7 or so years. Makes perfect sense.

That all depends on Sisu.
What do you think would happen if Sisu said the clubs up for sale and we want £1M for assets and goodwill ?

 

[Nick]

That all depends on Sisu.
What do you think would happen if Sisu said the clubs up for sale and we want £1M for assets and goodwill ?

Where are you moving the goalposts to now? You aren't really making sense.

You moan about us being in league 1 for several years, but bang on about liquidating and starting again with Wasps as owners several leagues below where we are now.

Now you want them to write off millions of pounds they have put in, but in the same instance probably want them to put millions more in if they won't write it off and go.

 

[peeler]

That all depends on Sisu.
What do you think would happen if Sisu said the clubs up for sale and we want £1M for assets and goodwill ?

Sorry to butt in, but if they only wanted a million I think there would be a queue ready to negotiate.

 

[Moff]

Nope I've never been to Coventry Rugby in my life, I had no interest in Rugby until I went to a Wasps game, I didn't think I'd like it but I was wrong.

Incidentally just to add another dimension to the augment, my Wife goes with me to the Rugby and she absolutely loves it.

I've only ever taken her to football a couple of times, she's not keen and thinks it boring in comparison.

So why go to Wasps, or was it the free flags and children's entertainment that attracted you?

Thanks for telling me the story about your wife, not sure why its another dimension, one more fan. My kids go to CCFC with me and the when I go to the Rugby at the Saints, and CRFC. They like the sport and are not bought by free flags and the other cheap gimmics. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[italiahorse]

Where are you moving the goalposts to now? You aren't really making sense.

You moan about us being in league 1 for several years, but bang on about liquidating and starting again with Wasps as owners several leagues below where we are now.

Now you want them to write off millions of pounds they have put in, but in the same instance probably want them to put millions more in if they won't write it off and go.

So you are saying they want to sell the club for £60M with assets of only £1M.
As I said it's all on Sisu

 

[Moff]

That all depends on Sisu.
What do you think would happen if Sisu said the clubs up for sale and we want £1M for assets and goodwill ?

You would Champion Wasps as the perfect purchaser and would stamp your feet and get your arse in your hand if anyone slagged Wasps off?

 

[Nick]

You would Champion Wasps as the perfect purchaser and would stamp your feet and get your arse in your hand if anyone slagged Wasps off?

And then if it all went a bit wrong, completely change sides and have a go at people.

 

[italiahorse]

So why go to Wasps, or was it the free flags and children's entertainment that attracted you?

Thanks for telling me the story about your wife, not sure why its another dimension, one more fan. My kids go to CCFC with me and the when I go to the Rugby at the Saints, and CRFC. They like the sport and are not bought by free flags and the other cheap gimmics. Swings and roundabouts.

Surely you can have top notch rugby and flags ?

 

[italiahorse]

And then if it all went a bit wrong, completely change sides and have a go at people.

Always give people a chance.
If they cock up, first tell them so and then change sides if they continue.
We all have a choice.
Quoting people once said this and that is saying stick with it forever is naive.
I'm starting to see why the few are fighting hard. They can't change.

 

[peeler]

So why go to Wasps, or was it the free flags and children's entertainment that attracted you?

Thanks for telling me the story about your wife, not sure why its another dimension, one more fan. My kids go to CCFC with me and the when I go to the Rugby at the Saints, and CRFC. They like the sport and are not bought by free flags and the other cheap gimmics. Swings and roundabouts.

Now you are trying to belittle what I said, I go to Wasps because they were the first to draw me in to rugby, like CCFC were the first to draw me in to football.

Most of this thread is about kids, I was merely saying that another dimension is women, you see a lot of women at rugby. I've no idea what the percentage is.

As for free flag, don't be so patronising.

 

[Nick]

Now you are trying to belittle what I said, I go to Wasps because they were the first to draw me in to rugby, like CCFC were the first to draw me in to football.

Most of this thread is about kids, I was merely saying that another dimension is women, you see a lot of women at rugby. I've no idea what the percentage is.

As for free flag, don't be so patronising.

I wonder what the percentage of city fans who go to Wasps and how anti SISU they are would be is, that would be an interesting stat. The higher percentage I have seen (on here and social media) are quite hardcore, almost like it was some sort of protest and the enemy of the enemy stuff.

 

[stupot07]

You see a lot of women at the football, there's loads around by me in block 20.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[peeler]

I wonder what the percentage of city fans who go to Wasps and how anti SISU they are would be is, that would be an interesting stat. The higher percentage I have seen (on here and social media) are quite hardcore, almost like it was some sort of protest and the enemy of the enemy stuff.

I think you would be shocked at the percentage, there's far more out there than you realize.

However I'm doing it because I enjoy it, not as a protest, because nothing I do in isolation will influence or bring about what I believe we all want which the back of SISU.

And yes I'm hardcore anti-sisu.

 

[Nick]

I think you would be shocked at the percentage, there's far more out there than you realize.

However I'm doing it because I enjoy it, not as a protest, because nothing I do in isolation will influence or bring about what I believe we all want which the back of SISU.

And yes I'm hardcore anti-sisu.

Like you have just said, you had never been to Rugby before. Do you think you would have gone if they had moved in at Bagington and had nothing at all to do with CCFC / SISU and the whole mess?

 

[italiahorse]

I wonder what the percentage of city fans who go to Wasps and how anti SISU they are would be is, that would be an interesting stat. The higher percentage I have seen (on here and social media) are quite hardcore, almost like it was some sort of protest and the enemy of the enemy stuff.

Are we not all 100% anti Sisu.
Are you inferring some CCFC fans are pro Sisu?

 

[Moff]

Now you are trying to belittle what I said, I go to Wasps because they were the first to draw me in to rugby, like CCFC were the first to draw me in to football.

Most of this thread is about kids, I was merely saying that another dimension is women, you see a lot of women at rugby. I've no idea what the percentage is.

As for free flag, don't be so patronising.

Ok sorry for the flag joke, but essentially the question was why Wasps and not CRFC? I am sure you were up in arms when CCFC moved away to Northampton, and yet see fit to jump on the 'top class sport' train as another club does the same.

 

[Moff]

Surely you can have top notch rugby and flags ?

Only wasps seem to have the obsession. Perhaps Richardson owns a flag company?

 

[Nick]

Are we not all 100% anti Sisu.
Are you inferring some CCFC fans are pro Sisu?

I am inferring that from looking online there is a pattern that the people who seem to like Wasps most are the people most vocal about SISU (out of city fans, obviously can't comment on Dave from the Rugby club etc). It could well be much different past that.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Only wasps seem to have the obsession. Perhaps Richardson owns a flag company?

A bit like Mcginnity owning a seat company!

 

[peeler]

Like you have just said, you had never been to Rugby before. Do you think you would have gone if they had moved in at Bagington and had nothing at all to do with CCFC / SISU and the whole mess?

If they had moved to the Coventry area then probably yes, but it's rather hypothetical. The attraction of seeing premier league rugby was the initial draw, I continue to go because we all thoroughly enjoy it.

I go with my Wife, Sister & Brother-in-law, it's a day out and very social, normally (not always) combine it with a drink before the game and a meal in the evening.

I've got a Wolves fan (Season Ticket holder) as a mate who what's to go with me to the Rugby as well. At least he won't have to buy a scarf or hat.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

I am inferring that from looking online there is a pattern that the people who seem to like Wasps most are the people most vocal about SISU (out of city fans, obviously can't comment on Dave from the Rugby club etc). It could well be much different past that.

Another load of bollox ! So from your analysis, people that dont go Rugby are more likely to like Sisu ? You do come up with crap statistics , WUMMING at its best or just crap ?

 

[Nick]

Another load of bollox ! So from your analysis, people that dont go Rugby are more likely to like Sisu ? You do come up with crap statistics , WUMMING at its best or just crap ?

How is it crap?

Just co-incidences then I guess?

Please stop banging on about WUMMING, as that is the reason you are on here.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

How is it crap?

Just co-incidences then I guess?

Your very quick to jump on people when they offer silly opinions , well its your turn , You cant just stereotype people on a wim .

 

[Nick]

Your very quick to jump on people when they offer silly opinions , well its your turn , You cant just stereotype people on a wim .

How is it silly? I have said from the people on here and social media.

I haven't said every city fan ever. I also haven't said it is a statistic, just an observation.

I also said it would be interesting to see a percentage, which means I don't know it, so I am not claiming to.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

Back it up with some facts then , Wheres the proof ? Your just causing trouble

 

[Nick]

Back it up with some facts then , Wheres the proof ? Your just causing trouble

Have a look at all of the users on here who have bigged up Wasps in some form, then have a read through their posting history.

Then have a browse through some social media, have a look at the people who were / are city fans that go to Wasps and try and get an idea of their views.

 

[italiahorse]

I am inferring that from looking online there is a pattern that the people who seem to like Wasps most are the people most vocal about SISU (out of city fans, obviously can't comment on Dave from the Rugby club etc). It could well be much different past that.

Its a nice feeling to be able to be associated with the success of a team.
However It highlights more the fact that the thing you really want to be successful will never be and all down to an incompetent owner that won't do what's best for the fans.

 

[Bruce the Boot]

Have a look at all of the users on here who have bigged up Wasps in some form, then have a read through their posting history.

Then have a browse through some social media, have a look at the people who were / are city fans that go to Wasps and try and get an idea of their views.

Why dont i look through to see who does nt go Rugby and see if they like Sisu , You can make statistics out of anything .

 

[oldskyblue58]

First point I have consistently for years said clubs need to live within their means. To me that is spending only the cash that is available. I accept the obvious consequences of that on overhead and squad spend. That doesn't mean continually adding to debt that is (a) unsecured (b) unsustainable because the interest can not be paid let alone capital repayments. Cash available will be the operating income but also monies that the owners provide via sustainable loans, equity introductions or gifts. If interest can not be repaid, if charged, then a clubs cash pot should be reduced accordingly. It will include player sales. Continually racking up unrealistic debt with no hope of repayment is ridiculous and ultimately often means the UK tax payer missing out when administration hits. Might bring clubs in to line regarding the football debt rule in insolvency

But what is break even as questioned in the OP
operating break even ?
after interest charges ?
after player sales ?
net profit of 0 ?
cashflow surplus/deficit at 0?

As off 31/05/15 we were not at breakeven on any of those measures. A budget is for the season not just the transfer windows and heavily dependent on attendances which is dependent on the success of the squad we have. But again we are we talking FL SCMP Budget, total wages budget, the football budget, the company budget, the Group budget, the investment budget etc. A budget isn't just about promotion it is about stability, it is about staying in the division at least not dropping out of it, it is about maximising income and minimising costs.

Taking a punt at success? Basically means adding to the unsustainable debt levels we already have. Yes it might be investors who are comfortable with high risk but extra funds doesn't guarantee promotion to the Championship and once there how do they get repaid considering operating rocket (mainly on wages). It is no good saying SISU should have invested last year - its gone its irrelevant other than if you consider that CCFC bad run of form started in November and would colour investment decisions. TM might prove to be a success but so far he has been in terms of results in poor L1 divisions pretty average (kept us in L1 by skin of teeth and had a dismal run last season, not got off to a great start this). Punt = more debt that cant be repaid except by selling star players or reducing overheads

The situation we are in is that we must balance the cash each season, because that is the greatest risk to the club's survival. The club presently owes its owners £36m (plus other operating creditors)with total assets of £1m plus any saleable players (what £3m tops?) Are we seriously saying that in the best interests of the clubs future the solution is to increase debt still and add to the annual finance costs so making breakeven harder still? Is that what fans really want owners to do, to risk it all, on a chance of promotion? Right now taking risks with our finances could be catastrophic, all business includes risk but I think too many fail to recognise the nature of the risk when calling for "taking a punt on promotion" in our current circumstances.

Not convinced at all that as we stand a promotion would solve more than it risked - adding further debt to that adds greater risk. That is not to say that I do not want us to push for promotion but it has to be based on sound finances

 

[Nick]

Why dont i look through to see who does nt go Rugby and see if they like Sisu , You can make statistics out of anything .

It was an observation wasn't it? I said I didn't know the stat.

 

[covmark]

Nope I've never been to Coventry Rugby in my life, I had no interest in Rugby until I went to a Wasps game, I didn't think I'd like it but I was wrong.

Incidentally just to add another dimension to the augment, my Wife goes with me to the Rugby and she absolutely loves it.

I've only ever taken her to football a couple of times, she's not keen and thinks it boring in comparison.

Cool story bro

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Did Nick say that, or did you make it up?

I can remember Nick has many ou praised the work the JSB and volunteer teams do for the kids, all on SBT. I haven't read once that he says encouraging young fans is bad.

I would say it is bad encouraging young fans for their mental wellbeing. I speak from personal experience