Idiots (25 Viewers)

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Nick

Nick

Administrator
oldskyblue58 said:
CT report on statements from CCFC, SBT & JHW

Coventry City and fans' group condemn pitch protests

Jimmy Hill Way Campaign call for lawful Coventry City protests only
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So they don't excuse them, while going on to excuse them?

Again, the statement starts off well but then goes off on a tangent trying to justify it. Just say we don't condone it.

Just to confirm, that's not blaming them for it. It's pointing out that just because it says "we dont excuse it" it doesnt get away from the fact that the majority of the statement is actually excusing it.
 
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oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
As for sharing responsibility well you could argue that all three of the above do (CCFC/TRUST/JHW). However none planned or encouraged illegal behaviour and at some point personal responsibility has to step in.

If you are going to apportion blame to the Trust or JHW then those participating in the "protest" must act within the boundaries set - quite clearly the Trust & JHW have said from the start that protests must be peaceful and lawful. Once the "protestors" step away from that and into illegal activity then to my mind that becomes wholly personal responsibility and choice. SISU are the root cause yes but aggression, illegal actions etc are a personal choice.

You might say it was right (I do not) that it was justified, necessary, acceptable, understandable but then you also have to accept any consequences that come with those actions or encouragement of those actions. The club is at the lowest point I have ever known and under siege from all directions - attitudes will harden, division will increase, it will get worse yet

It does irritate that in this dispute and many other things people/entities look to hide behind "it was someone else to blame it wasn't me/us" You have to take responsibility for your own actions or lack of them

Just my opinion, yours may differ and I respect that but expect the same in return
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
oldskyblue58 said:
As for sharing responsibility well you could argue that all three of the above do (CCFC/TRUST/JHW). However none planned or encouraged illegal behaviour and at some point personal responsibility has to step in.

If you are going to apportion blame to the Trust or JHW then those participating in the "protest" must act within the boundaries set - quite clearly the Trust & JHW have said from the start that protests must be peaceful and lawful. Once the "protestors" step away from that and into illegal activity then to my mind that becomes wholly personal responsibility and choice. SISU are the root cause yes but aggression, illegal actions etc are a personal choice.

You might say it was right (I do not) that it was justified, necessary, acceptable, understandable but then you also have to accept any consequences that come with those actions or encouragement of those actions. The club is at the lowest point I have ever known and under siege from all directions - attitudes will harden, division will increase, it will get worse yet

It does irritate that in this dispute and many other things people/entities look to hide behind "it was someone else to blame it wasn't me/us" You have to take responsibility for your own actions or lack of them

Just my opinion, yours may differ and I respect that but expect the same in return
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the Trust were on the pitch throwing smoke bombs or anything.

My only point was that in the statements instead of saying that they dont excuse it and then pretty much trying their best to justify it just have a bit of leadership. Say how damaging games isn't fair and isn't going to achieve anything. The trust could even say that this paints them in a bad light and could make their job harder. Just a calming statement, I know that it wont fix everything and not everybody will listen but how does a "we dont condone it" with more lines trying to get everybody angry again help?

It's like saying "We dont agree with you punching that man, we dont even excuse it. He was shagging your wife though, he did also say he was going to knock you out, he even drank your beer, hes even been taking your kids swimming on a Thursday. Dont punch him though"

It's like with the whistles, can't say everybody blow a whistle one week and get everybody wound up and then distance from it the next.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
were there any whistles at Sixfields?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
oldskyblue58 said:
were there any whistles at Sixfields?
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to the whistles being at Sixfields. :)

It isn't saying people shouldn't protest, maybe just a bit more guidance and leadership.

JHW and the trust should try and distance as much as possible, as we all know that Fisher will just use that line any time the trust say anything. If anything goes on at SISU HQ for example it will be pinned on the trust and then discredits the other things they do.

That's not slagging them off, it's just pointing it out. While everybody whoops and cheers at Moz saying how they are going to go there and give joy a valentines present, they will be outraged when Fisher comes out and mentions anything about it. (which is guaranteed isnt it)

Again, that's not saying the trust were throwing smoke bombs. Just that the Trust could be trying to "calm" things and saying to do things the right way and be professional and then the protest stuff can be left to JHW. That way, the next time the Trust approach SISU about buying it can't be thrown back that "Do you really think they would deal with you after you stood outside the offices shouting abuse" or something.

If that makes sense.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
oldskyblue58 said:
As for sharing responsibility well you could argue that all three of the above do (CCFC/TRUST/JHW). However none planned or encouraged illegal behaviour and at some point personal responsibility has to step in.

If you are going to apportion blame to the Trust or JHW then those participating in the "protest" must act within the boundaries set - quite clearly the Trust & JHW have said from the start that protests must be peaceful and lawful. Once the "protestors" step away from that and into illegal activity then to my mind that becomes wholly personal responsibility and choice. SISU are the root cause yes but aggression, illegal actions etc are a personal choice.

You might say it was right (I do not) that it was justified, necessary, acceptable, understandable but then you also have to accept any consequences that come with those actions or encouragement of those actions. The club is at the lowest point I have ever known and under siege from all directions - attitudes will harden, division will increase, it will get worse yet

It does irritate that in this dispute and many other things people/entities look to hide behind "it was someone else to blame it wasn't me/us" You have to take responsibility for your own actions or lack of them

Just my opinion, yours may differ and I respect that but expect the same in return
Click to expand...
What saddens me always in this is the lack of empathy. That's not excusing, but understanding. And yes, that goes back to understanding why SISU felt they got to the position they did. Now... it means understanding why some are so frustrated, they feel they have to SHOUT until SOMEBODY HEARS THEM.

Understanding doesn't mean agreeing, or even excusing, but it then means there can be some kind of effort to see where people are coming from, and maybe even reach out to them. If only certain protagonists had reached out to our owners way back when, we might not bhe here now... if only our owners reached out to the fans now, we might have some hope, if slim. If only they showed they understood why some fans are now desperate...

And that doesn't mean absolving people of responsibility for their actions. Ultimately however this was not large scale, it was a few isolated incidents. It might become large scale of course... and if our owners fail to recognise the potential for that, then they're as responsible as the fans who do such actions, to my mind. That's not casting blame, that's recognising that there is *always* a chance for people to come together...

If they recognise they have that chance.
 
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Nick

Nick

Administrator
Deleted member 5849 said:
What saddens me always in this is the lack of empathy. That's not excusing, but understanding. And yes, that goes back to understanding why SISU felt the at position. Now... it means understanding why some are so frustrated, they feel they have to SHOUT until SOMEBODY HEARS THEM.

Understanding doesn't mean agreeing, or even excusing, but it then means there can be some kind of effort to see where people are coming from, and maybe even reach out to them. If only certain protagonists had reached out to our owners way back when, we might not bhe here now... if only our owners reached out to the fans now, we might have some hope, if slim. If only they showed they understood why some fans are now desperate...

And that doesn't mean absolving people of responsibility for their actions. Ultimately however this was not large scale, it was a few isolated incidents. It might become large scale of course... and if our owners fail to recognise the potential for that, then they're as responsible as the fans who do such actions, to my mind. That's not casting blame, that's recognising that there is *always* a chance for people to come together...

If they recognise they have that chance.
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That rules out Fisher even speaking though.

It would mean somebody else speaking about it, would they use Slade to do it? "Look, you are well within your rights to protest and we understand but please leave the football side alone off the pitch etc"

Venus can pretty much be written off.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
It seems that this sort of thing will increase as the seasons goes into its final stages and relegation is more or less confirmed.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Nick said:
That rules out Fisher even speaking though.
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It doesn't. He's not stupid, he's well aware of where we are.

It rules out anybody speaking until our owners change the policy at the top however. Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen so... expect more of this kind of thing (although there are few games with the symbolism of Northampton away).

Maybe it is all broken irretrievably.
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
Anyone see the pictures of fisher at Northampton in the CT article? He looks horrified for once and clearly these on pitch protests and disruption of games even makes someone who couldn't care less care.

Something must be working
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Kingokings204 said:
Anyone see the pictures of fisher at Northampton in the CT article? He looks horrified for once and clearly these on pitch protests and disruption of games even makes someone who couldn't care less care.

Something must be working
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Nothing will work. We have been told so on here enough to know that.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
That rules out Fisher even speaking though.

It would mean somebody else speaking about it, would they use Slade to do it? "Look, you are well within your rights to protest and we understand but please leave the football side alone off the pitch etc"

Venus can pretty much be written off.
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Can you really see anyone with connections to SISU saying that we are within our rights to protest? All we will get is being blamed for some sort of deal falling through because of it. Like when Fisher blamed us for Butts falling through a couple of hours after the event.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
benji123 said:
Because it is slowly pushing sisu out there's only going to be so much they can take. Put it this way I'd rather be in league 2 with new ownership than in a league 1 relegation battle with sisu!
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But we are going to be Division 4 with SISU by the look of things :(
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Relegation also makes it less likely we will be able to afford to pay the franchise their rent money as well.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Astute said:
Can you really see anyone with connections to SISU saying that we are within our rights to protest? All we will get is being blamed for some sort of deal falling through because of it. Like when Fisher blamed us for Butts falling through a couple of hours after the event.
Click to expand...

Which is why I said it's pointless Fisher opening his mouth if the aim is to try and calm the fans down.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
Which is why I said it's pointless Fisher opening his mouth if the aim is to try and calm the fans down.
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Wouldn't Fisher telling us to calm down mean he wants us to go mental? ;)
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Relegation also makes it less likely we will be able to afford to pay the franchise their rent money as well.
Click to expand...

If SISU hadn't pissed of the fan base and a mass boycott of season tickets being inevitable next season as a result of that the opposite would most likely have been true. The average loss of a league one club is apparently £1.7M as apposed to £500K in league two. League two would have been more attractive to SISU's breakeven model had they have not alienated their customer base in the meantime. Yes relegation will naturally hit attendances but lets not pretend that will be the overriding factor next season.
 
A

archieboy

Active Member
dongonzalos said:
The problem is when you treat people with utter contempt.
When you move their football club to another town.
When you promise them you are building a new stadium.
When you promise them you are buying land for the new stadium in theee weeks.
When you take legal action that might help a different business but completely hurts CCFC.
Then when you run the club in such a way that it sits bottom of division 3.
When this all happens and some fans vent their anger, you then arrogantly blame those fans for.....

Losing the club matches
Putting off investors and putting off potential new staff.

That toxic leadership approach just fuels the situation and provokes more anger.

SISU have annoyed all of us. They have annoyed around 40,000-60,000 Coventry city fans.

Now in all walks of life in a pool of 40,000-60,000 people. Everyone reacts very differently to someone upsetting you.

I don't agree with flares and I don't agree with pitch invasions. However am I surprised it is happening?
Not in the slightest.
To be honest I am surprised it took this long.
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Excellent post sums it up for me completely, I was there with my 9 year old Saturday, probably his fifth away game ever, said he really enjoyed it regardless of the result because of the fans passion. I don't condone it but people are angry and pissed off and when you mix it with alcohol this is the result, I think it will get worse personally
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue said:
Got to say I've never heard the C bomb and Nonce as much as I have on Saturday! Some real anger in the stands and it's no suprise as SISU have really treated fans with contempt
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By the end of the season I reckon it'll get a hell of a lot worse. Sadly even with different owners in League 2 it is unlikely that it'll get any better in the long-run either.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
archieboy said:
Excellent post sums it up for me completely, I was there with my 9 year old Saturday, probably his fifth away game ever, said he really enjoyed it regardless of the result because of the fans passion. I don't condone it but people are angry and pissed off and when you mix it with alcohol this is the result, I think it will get worse personally
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Give it another couple of years and I reckon the protests will even take place during the franchise's matches as well.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
By the end of the season I reckon it'll get a hell of a lot worse. Sadly even with different owners in League 2 it is unlikely that it'll get any better in the long-run either.
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If we had new owners the atmosphere at our club would suddenly change. We would get many supporters back. It would be a totally different ball game (still football)
 
skybluebeduff

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
The protests at Northampton weren't even advertised like they usually are on social media, although there were a post on CCFC fans forum on Facebook of someone posting a link to smoke grenades last Thursday.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Astute said:
If we had new owners the atmosphere at our club would suddenly change. We would get many supporters back. It would be a totally different ball game (still football)
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Have to say, if we won games in the division below, the atmosphere'd get better. Only reason it's exploding (again) now is because we're so utterly inept on the pitch as well - last season masked the horrendous failures of the club, to an extent.

Now whether we would actually win games in the division below is another matter entirely...(!)
 
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