Mediation talks underway (35 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

these starting requirements put forward - all stuff we can get behind

• “Putting Coventry City front and centre-stage in the community.”

• A future stadium solution for the football club, with the club’s preferred option remaining a return to an inner-city home at an expanded Butts Park Arena, groundsharing with Coventry rugby club in a stadium of potentially 15,000 to 25,000 capacity.

• A future home for the club’s ‘lifeblood’ youth academy, with one potential aim of relocating it next to a new training facility.

Just to play devils advocate turn it around and consider what the response could be (not saying its my view, fact or what will be)

“Putting Coventry City front and centre-stage in the community.” Well a good sentiment but what does it mean. Does it conflict with City of Rugby that CCC /CSF etc are invested in? Why would CCC tone down its support for Rugby or Wasps? What does CCFC offer that Wasps do not other than history & heritage? What are CCFC prepared to fund to achieve this? What are the CCFC plans and ideas that CCC could get behind

"A future stadium solution for the football club, with the club’s preferred option remaining a return to an inner-city home at an expanded Butts Park Arena, ground sharing with Coventry rugby club in a stadium of potentially 15,000 to 25,000 capacity" Show us the plans. Proof of funds. What are the infra structure improvements required. How much will it cost CCC. Why is it that option viable. What are the plans & commitments to rebuilding CCFC. How will it work between CCFC & CRFC how does CCC fit in. Timescales. How does it make CCFC better off

"A future home for the club’s ‘lifeblood’ youth academy, with one potential aim of relocating it next to a new training facility." Is it viable. Can club afford Academy in L2. What is going to happen to the funds from sale of Ryton. What site has been identified. Proof of funds to build it. is anywhere suitable available/affordable

Finally and probably vital is what are CCFC/SISU prepared to compromise on

Given the very public stance of CCC and Wasps regarding no talks whilst legals are going on then I cant help thinking activating the JR2 now makes mediation cosmetic at this stage. But that's just my opinion

This is just more bullshit, kicking the can down the road. Things have to be forced to a head.

 

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[chiefdave]

Just to play devils advocate turn it around and consider what the response could be (not saying its my view, fact or what will be)

For me this is why CCC should come out and back it 100%. Is, as most suspect, it is a bluff from SISU then CCC saying great lets get things moving is a big problem for them. The best result for SISU is CCC to give some generic response about dropping legal action.

 

[dongonzalos]

For me this is why CCC should come out and back it 100%. Is, as most suspect, it is a bluff from SISU then CCC saying great lets get things moving is a big problem for them. The best result for SISU is CCC to give some generic response about dropping legal action.

Problem is, it's actually the response anyone would expect.
We can hardly get involved with these people business wise, they are currently suing us.
Also they can say what can we do we haven't blocked anything there have been no proposals.

SISU are bluffing in my opinion.
If they were genuine they would provide a proposal to CCC and CRFC with proof of viability. With the caveat if this all goes through smoothly the legal action is on the table for dropping.

 

[chiefdave]

SISU are bluffing in my opinion.

And that's why they council should call their bluff. Say we're right behind it, get the plans for the Butts submitted ASAP, tell us what land you have identified for the academy etc.

What do SISU do then? They either have to come good or admit it was all a smokescreen.

 

[Nick]

And that's why they council should call their bluff. Say we're right behind it, get the plans for the Butts submitted ASAP, tell us what land you have identified for the academy etc.

What do SISU do then? They either have to come good or admit it was all a smokescreen.

Exactly.

Instead, the council will probably play into their hands like they did with trying to block the Butts the first time around and give them something to take to the football league to say "look, it's all blocked".

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Exactly.

Instead, the council will probably play into their hands like they did with trying to block the Butts the first time around and give them something to take to the football league to say "look, it's all blocked".

But maybe the Council ate worried about JR3.
CCC are trying to bankrupt us by agreeing to the terms and not paying a penny towards it.
Come on must look at the polish telecom company they brought shares in.
You cannot do buisiness with these people.

 

[Moff]

It's a statement based on Reid regurgitating the Sisu line after every headline and old fiver going along with it.
Nothing to do about growing up although it is a bit monotonous you keep saying that rather than make your own contribution.

Pot and kettle.

Now you know how I feel, and why I have to keep pointing it out to you. You know I only do it out to help your postings improve. Tell you what when you contribute more than the old clichés I will contribute meaningfully on your posts

 

[skybluetony176]

For me this is why CCC should come out and back it 100%. Is, as most suspect, it is a bluff from SISU then CCC saying great lets get things moving is a big problem for them. The best result for SISU is CCC to give some generic response about dropping legal action.

Shouldn't CRFC back it 100% first? There's little evidence of that. In fact hasn't JS been quoted as not wanting to work with SISU now? If that's the case what are CCC supposed to get 100% behind exactly?

 

[Nick]

I always thought Sharpe was quite clever when wording things to not give too much away.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Shouldn't CRFC back it 100% first? There's little evidence of that. In fact hasn't JS been quoted as not wanting to work with SISU now? If that's the case what are CCC supposed to get 100% behind exactly?

What's it got to do with CRFC? They're not in dispute with CCFC.

 

[chiefdave]

Shouldn't CRFC back it 100% first? There's little evidence of that. In fact hasn't JS been quoted as not wanting to work with SISU now? If that's the case what are CCC supposed to get 100% behind exactly?

Even better for the council. All CCC have to do is say they're all for the stadium at the Butts and tell Fisher to get the plans in ASAP. Sharp tells Fisher to do one, he's not interested.

If they did that it would at least give the appearance of them being supportive of the club. If they don't do it Fisher can run to the FL and add it to his evidence as to why we can't stay in Coventry.

 

[clint van damme]

Shouldn't CRFC back it 100% first? There's little evidence of that. In fact hasn't JS been quoted as not wanting to work with SISU now? If that's the case what are CCC supposed to get 100% behind exactly?

I think you're right. JS doesn't want anything to do with sisu and I don't think CCFC fit into his plans at all whoever's at the helm.
The amount of time we all spend discussing the Butts when there's never been any inkling of us moving there is frankly baffling.

 

[skybluetony176]

What's it got to do with CRFC? They're not in dispute with CCFC.

They have the lease. Of they won't deal with SISU it's a non starter. Which in actual fact then asks the question what's it got to do with the council? How are the council supposed to call SISU's bluff? If the lease holder won't deal with SISU there is no bluff.

 

[skybluetony176]

Even better for the council. All CCC have to do is say they're all for the stadium at the Butts and tell Fisher to get the plans in ASAP. Sharp tells Fisher to do one, he's not interested.

If they did that it would at least give the appearance of them being supportive of the club. If they don't do it Fisher can run to the FL and add it to his evidence as to why we can't stay in Coventry.

Sharp already has told Fisher to do one. Why do you want the council to make him do it again? Why do you think it's the job of the council to make him do it again? Baffling, truly baffling.

 

[chiefdave]

Sharp already has told Fisher to do one. Why do you want the council to make him do it again? Why do you think it's the job of the council to make him do it again? Baffling, truly baffling.

No he hasn't, he's said he won't work with SISU, no mention of Otium. Could be interpreted as very careful selected phrasing.

But asked today if any involvement with the football club had now been ruled out, Mr Sharp said: “I have certainly firmly ruled out any involvement with Sisu.”

Don't really see the problem. Will take the council literally minutes to fire out a press release saying they're happy to work with the club and for them to get plans submitted. Then just sit back and wait for the response from SISU.
Its about trying to force things to a conclusion rather than letting it drag on for several more years.

 

[Captain Dart]

I think you're right. JS doesn't want anything to do with sisu and I don't think CCFC fit into his plans at all whoever's at the helm.
The amount of time we all spend discussing the Butts when there's never been any inkling of us moving there is frankly baffling.

Reid is the only one talking a Butts move up. Meanwhile Cov Utd are definitely playing there next season and they are selling season tickets.
It is unclear if their contract extends any further than one season but I thought they were moving there until they could build a ground themselves.
I think they will be playing there for at least the next 5 seasons, CCFC will not be involved. * my opinion.

 

[skybluetony176]

No he hasn't, he's said he won't work with SISU, no mention of Otium. Could be interpreted as very careful selected phrasing.

Don't really see the problem. Will take the council literally minutes to fire out a press release saying they're happy to work with the club and for them to get plans submitted. Then just sit back and wait for the response from SISU.
Its about trying to force things to a conclusion rather than letting it drag on for several more years.

So Otium are going to fund it then? Lets hope JS doesn't ask for proof of funds with traceability all the way back as apparently is the norm. Wake up Dave.

They have already made such a press release stating also that they can't refuse planning based on who is applying for it. They even suggested a site. There's nothing stopping the club putting in planning today or any other day either at the BPA or any other site. Why is it the councils job to force them to do it? If we were serious about it we'd already have done it. The bluff was called a long time ago. What you're actually saying is you want the council to help YOU understand that. The vast majority of us passed that point 3 years ago.

 

[Nick]

So Otium are going to fund it then? Lets hope JS doesn't ask for proof of funds with traceability all the way back as apparently is the norm. Wake up Dave.

They have already made such a press release stating also that they can't refuse planning based on who is applying for it. They even suggested a site. There's nothing stopping the club putting in planning today or any other day either at the BPA or any other site. Why is it the councils job to force them to do it? If we were serious about it we'd already have done it. The bluff was called a long time ago. What you're actually saying is you want the council to help YOU understand that. The vast majority of us passed that point 3 years ago.

Which site did they suggest?

 

[skybluetony176]

Which site did they suggest?

Don't recall. But it was said at the time we returned.

 

[Nick]

Don't recall. But it was said at the time we returned.

Wasn't it the housing estate in Radford that Maton was on about?

 

[Captain Dart]

Wasn't it the housing estate in Radford that Maton was on about?

Tim said the price of the old Ryton factory site per acre was too expensive (think he quoted £0.5M/acre).
I guess he wants some council land gifted to the club.
Unfortunately the timing is all wrong, any land within the city boundary is wanted for housing.

 

[chiefdave]

So Otium are going to fund it then?

No. at no point have I suggested that.

What you're actually saying is you want the council to help YOU understand that. The vast majority of us passed that point 3 years ago.

You've totally missed the point. It doesn't matter what me or you think it matters what people like the FL think. Lets look at it from their perspective.

CCFC's landlords are currently refusing to talk to them.
CCFC propose a move to a groundshare at the Butts.
The FL get shown around the Butts and agree that it has potential as a site for CCFC.
CCC take action to block any move to the Butts.
CCFC announce mediation is taking place and one of their three key issues is they want CCC to support a groundshare at the Butts.

Now there's two options here. CCC can totally play into SISU's hands and basically bat the question away one way or another or they can call SISU's bluff and say great idea, get your plans submitted along with permission from the freeholder, tell us how you will fund it etc and we'll give you total support.

What do SISU do then? To me this presents an opportunity to force the endgame.

 

[Nick]

No. at no point have I suggested that.

You've totally missed the point. It doesn't matter what me or you think it matters what people like the FL think. Lets look at it from their perspective.

CCFC's landlords are currently refusing to talk to them.
CCFC propose a move to a groundshare at the Butts.
The FL get shown around the Butts and agree that it has potential as a site for CCFC.
CCC take action to block any move to the Butts.
CCFC announce mediation is taking place and one of their three key issues is they want CCC to support a groundshare at the Butts.

Now there's two options here. CCC can totally play into SISU's hands and basically bat the question away one way or another or they can call SISU's bluff and say great idea, get your plans submitted along with permission from the freeholder, tell us how you will fund it etc and we'll give you total support.

What do SISU do then? To me this presents an opportunity to force the endgame.

Exactly! They will soon shit themselves if that approach was taken.

 

[chiefdave]

Wasn't it the housing estate in Radford that Maton was on about?

There was the former Dunlop site Maton mentioned. It was with his if we illegally refused planning permission SISU could appeal and it would be overturned piece in the CT. A few days later it turned out the land was allocated for housing and couldn't be used for a stadium.

 

[Nick]

There was the former Dunlop site Maton mentioned. It was with his if we illegally refused planning permission SISU could appeal and it would be overturned piece in the CT. A few days later it turned out the land was allocated for housing and couldn't be used for a stadium.

So it was never calling their bluff, that was the one in Holbrooks.

Also, how much more pressure could the FL apply if the council etc were all happy and welcoming?

 

[dongonzalos]

And that's why they council should call their bluff. Say we're right behind it, get the plans for the Butts submitted ASAP, tell us what land you have identified for the academy etc.

What do SISU do then? They either have to come good or admit it was all a smokescreen.

I wished they would.
Unfortunately it was exactly with JR1. They don't have to its a case of SISU biting off their nose to spite their face.
The council will come out of it quite reasonably by saying we can't deal with SISU at the moment they are suing us.
With JR1 SISU should have put a bid in for ACL and said when this deal is signed the legal action will be dropped.
They should do the same now. Submit planning permission for the Butts (you can do that without owning the land) offer ditching the legal action if their proposal gets off the ground.
There is nothing in it for the council to call SISU's bluff. They don't have to their actions look reasonable anyway.
CCFC is the entity that needs either the Butts or a long term stay at the Ricoh. Both options depend on dropping legal action.
SISU care more about the legal action than CCFC. It won't be dropped even if we have to move away again.

 

[duffer]

Don't recall. But it was said at the time we returned.

I don't recall the council ever offering or suggesting an alternative site to the Ricoh either SBT, so politely, I think you're mistaken.

I can't see any issue with drawing all of the sides together to talk - that has to be a step forward. If it's SISU bullshit, and it may well be, then the sooner we find out the better. If it isn't, then maybe something might actually come of it.

The one thing that's clear to me is that the council has to step away from seeing CCFC at the Ricoh as the only option. At the moment there's a reasonable case based on the funds avaialble from the arena deal and Wasps refusal to negotiate, to suggest that the Ricoh isn't going to be the way forward. So if everyone really wants CCFC to stay in Coventry then it's time for CCC to deal with that reality and start thinking seriously about whether there are alternatives.

At the moment everything that has come out of the Council towards the club has been negative and seemingly predicated on forcing CCFC to stay at the Ricoh. That's not exactly surprising given JR2 but it gets us nowhere. JR2 is going to happen whether we or they like it or not - SISU have got a legal right to take it forward, and they're going to.

The council, who clearly believe they're going to win anyway should compartmentalise it, look at where they want the club to be in the future, and start looking at the options because at the moment I don't think it's likely to be in Coventry. This isn't about SISU winning, or the Council winning, it's about the City winning. The millions that Wasps are claimed to be bringing into the city would be dwarfed by even a moderately successful football club. I can't see any upside to avoiding discussions, but I can see a lot of potential downsides if we keep heading in the direction we are...

 

[Nick]

I wished they would.
Unfortunately it was exactly with JR1. They don't have to its a case of SISU biting off their nose to spite their face.
The council will come out of it quite reasonably by saying we can't deal with SISU at the moment they are suing us.
With JR1 SISU should have put a bid in for ACL and said when this deal is signed the legal action will be dropped.
They should do the same now. Submit planning permission for the Butts (you can do that without owning the land) offer ditching the legal action if their proposal gets off the ground.
Their is nothing in it for the council to call SISU's bluff. They don't have to their actions look reasonable anyway.
CCFC is the entity that needs either the Butts or a long term stay at the Ricoh. Both options depend on dropping legal action.
SISU care more about the legal action than CCFC. It won't be dropped even if we have to move away again.

How viable is moving away if the council and everybody else is showing willingness to sort things compared to when they pull stunts like trying to block things at the Butts?

 

[dongonzalos]

How viable is moving away if the council and everybody else is showing willingness to sort things compared to when they pull stunts like trying to block things at the Butts?

How viable is moving away?
Sorry don't really understand your question.
For SISU the priority is the legal action and CCFC costing nothing if you are talking viability?

 

[Nick]

How viable is moving away?
Sorry don't really understand your question.
For SISU the priority is the legal action and CCFC costing nothing if you are talking viability?

No, I mean from a FL point of view.

At the minute, everything the council or Wasps do in terms of refusing to help or deal with CCFC will be noted and send to the FL won't it? Would the FL really let CCFC move if everybody was being extra helpful?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

The council stated the football club would not be impacted by Wasps arrival. By refusing to consider the Butts and forcing the club into a long term rental deal with Wasps at a considerably higher rate, not impact the club? Surely by doing that, they are forcing the club to the brink? SISU own us but quite clearly other parties have influence on the future of the club. Some people don't like that, but it's true. They have passed planning permission on the Higgs centre, knowing it puts the academy future under threat. Again does this not go against Wasps not impacting the club?
I know SISU own us and they don't want to pay for anything etc, but that does not make it OK to knowingly harm the club because of them. Wasps according to some are here for the full 250 years, if so what realistic chance is there of another 30,000 seater stadium being built in Coventry? Particuarly with the need for housing. Does this not force the club to always being at the whim of Wasps? What future will CCFC have as the secondary sporting team? What chances of building an academy and training ground? It's all well and good saying once SISU will go, all will be well. CCC and Wasps will help, they might, but it will be on their terms, as it is now. SISU going won't change that. The CCC decisions have clearly demonstrated they do not have a place for CCFC. Wasps are the councils chosen sporting club for this city.
It astounds me that some defend them, it horrifies me people can't see it. Still, keep beating the SISU out drum. There is more than one enemy here. They appear to be in competition to ruin the club first. This needs fighting on all fronts. Been saying it for ages, but some only want to get at SISU. All well and good but it's just leaving an open door for the council to damage the club too.

 

[dongonzalos]

I don't recall the council ever offering or suggesting an alternative site to the Ricoh either SBT, so politely, I think you're mistaken.

I can't see any issue with drawing all of the sides together to talk - that has to be a step forward. If it's SISU bullshit, and it may well be, then the sooner we find out the better. If it isn't, then maybe something might actually come of it.

The one thing that's clear to me is that the council has to step away from seeing CCFC at the Ricoh as the only option. At the moment there's a reasonable case based on the funds avaialble from the arena deal and Wasps refusal to negotiate, to suggest that the Ricoh isn't going to be the way forward. So if everyone really wants CCFC to stay in Coventry then it's time for CCC to deal with that reality and start thinking seriously about whether there are alternatives.

At the moment everything that has come out of the Council towards the club has been negative and seemingly predicated on forcing CCFC to stay at the Ricoh. That's not exactly surprising given JR2 but it gets us nowhere. JR2 is going to happen whether we or they like it or not - SISU have got a legal right to take it forward, and they're going to.

The council, who clearly believe they're going to win anyway should compartmentalise it, look at where they want the club to be in the future, and start looking at the options because at the moment I don't think it's likely to be in Coventry. This isn't about SISU winning, or the Council winning, it's about the City winning. The millions that Wasps are claimed to be bringing into the city would be dwarfed by even a moderately successful football club. I can't see any upside to avoiding discussions, but I can see a lot of potential downsides if we keep heading in the direction we are...

Unfortunately the Council and Wasps for that matter don't have to.
Only a tiny proportion of people support the legal action so they are not going to get a sway of public pressure.
The football club are looking to Wasps and the Council for something.
Wasps and the Council want the legal action stopped.
I can't see the Council or Wasps changing their stance.
Unfortunately the legal action is more important to SISU so I can't see SISU changing their stance either.
Just like JR1 I see it as pointless action that just hurts the football by antagonising the partners we need to work with. With salt rubbed into the wounds that just like JR1 it won't even bloody succeed.

 

[chiefdave]

At the minute, everything the council or Wasps do in terms of refusing to help or deal with CCFC will be noted and send to the FL won't it? Would the FL really let CCFC move if everybody was being extra helpful?

Exactly. If you're the FL you could have Wasps refusing to talk to CCFC and CCC blocking any attempt by the club to move and failing to respond to the clubs request for help. That makes a solid argument if Fisher turns up and says we want to move out of the city.

On the other hand you could have CCC saying we'd support any new stadium plan, including the Butts, 100% and Wasps saying we'll give you another 5 year agreement while the stadium is built. The argument to move out of the city is then non-existent.

 

[dongonzalos]

No, I mean from a FL point of view.

At the minute, everything the council or Wasps do in terms of refusing to help or deal with CCFC will be noted and send to the FL won't it? Would the FL really let CCFC move if everybody was being extra helpful?

Yes totally, we were allowed to move away before saying we were 'forced out'. Yet people were even sending rent offers to the FL proving we were far from getting chased out.
The FL have all but admitted they won't stop SISU going again.
The stance by the Council and Wasps gives them ammo that don't even need.,

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't recall the council ever offering or suggesting an alternative site to the Ricoh either SBT, so politely, I think you're mistaken.

I can't see any issue with drawing all of the sides together to talk - that has to be a step forward. If it's SISU bullshit, and it may well be, then the sooner we find out the better. If it isn't, then maybe something might actually come of it.

The one thing that's clear to me is that the council has to step away from seeing CCFC at the Ricoh as the only option. At the moment there's a reasonable case based on the funds avaialble from the arena deal and Wasps refusal to negotiate, to suggest that the Ricoh isn't going to be the way forward. So if everyone really wants CCFC to stay in Coventry then it's time for CCC to deal with that reality and start thinking seriously about whether there are alternatives.

At the moment everything that has come out of the Council towards the club has been negative and seemingly predicated on forcing CCFC to stay at the Ricoh. That's not exactly surprising given JR2 but it gets us nowhere. JR2 is going to happen whether we or they like it or not - SISU have got a legal right to take it forward, and they're going to.

The council, who clearly believe they're going to win anyway should compartmentalise it, look at where they want the club to be in the future, and start looking at the options because at the moment I don't think it's likely to be in Coventry. This isn't about SISU winning, or the Council winning, it's about the City winning. The millions that Wasps are claimed to be bringing into the city would be dwarfed by even a moderately successful football club. I can't see any upside to avoiding discussions, but I can see a lot of potential downsides if we keep heading in the direction we are...

The club leaving the Arena would not show the council in a good light, as regardless of whether it really is for the best or not, it will essentially be the club leaving due to Wasps' arrival.