Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (43 Viewers)

[Nick]

ha ha.

Who they asking to boycott, as most have already gone ?

Asking as many as they can you would think, probably so they can get excited when ST numbers are low and try and get outraged that x% of them are free or OAPs and how it is all lies.

 

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[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Because you seemed to be a little angry about details being leaked So much so you have waded on wrong threads about it and banged on about Fisher leaking all the info etc.

I'm not angry about anything at the moment just read the threads but quite frankly I'm losing interest, haven't renewed yet, don't think I will now. As for wading in on wrong threads I'd had a few then but never mind.

 

[Nick]

I'm not angry about anything at the moment just read the threads but quite frankly I'm losing interest, haven't renewed yet, don't think I will now. As for wading in on wrong threads I'd had a few then but never mind.

It was just the first 2 I remembered who were outraged and stuff being leaked, I remember Moz also saying about "what is the agenda or them leaking info to their PR man" and not being happy about it.. There was even talk about the "takeover" being de-railed because the info was shared.

Gary Hoffman told me last night he's disappointed that the club has seen fit to make his bid public as "these things should remain private."

It's a bit confusing it goes from that to being sent out on a press release.

 

[skybluetony176]

Trouble with all that tony is that in all likelihood the club will still be worth a bid of £2m in a years time and that the SISU investment could well be no greater than it is now. Where is the incentive to go now?

Could. With the season ticket boycott and likely falls in attendances next season it seems highly unlikely that SISU won't have to put their hands in their pockets. Has to be equity as well doesn't it under SCMP so they'll never get it back.

Fact is that player sales are actually worth more to SISU's pocket if they're sold under Hoff's ownership than they are under SISU's ownership because as long as SISU are owners the money goes straight back to the club to plug holes so SISU don't have to. They never see the upfront fee or the add ons of players sales unless you believe the theory that SISU are taking millions out of the club. The only way that they can do that is by selling the squad as part of the club. It's a red herring to say that the squad is worth more than what Hoff is offering up front because the simple fact is that they don't have access to the squad value by selling the players themselves.

 

[Captain Dart]

I'll trade your fat lady singing for when the fat pig flies. £10m....


B. Where is the guarantee here? What if the club doesn't sell £3m worth of players in 3 years? It makes nothing from selling players (the only thing keeping it from further significant losses every year). Are the fans suddenly on board with 'selling the family silver' now?

C. How will this be achieved considering B?

D. Where has this figure come from? Is it more or less than a figure SISU might achieve selling it themselves? They're presumably already talked to prospective developers as part of the work they did to get it on to Rugby Council's local plan.

The player sales figure comes from looking at the last few years accounts, look under profit on sale of player registrations, 2016 was £2.5M, 2015 was £2.7M. I assume profitability continues at a slightly lower rate and SISU get 50%. Yes Nick, profit on player sales has been over £5M in the last 2 published accounts!

Ryton I assume gets permission for housing and sold. I have heard figures of £6M bandied about so allowing £4.5m isn't even optimistic.

As for promotion, it will come within 3 years even with a conveyor belt of talent being sold on surely, I only said 'more or less guaranteed' not "nailed on certainty". Widdrington is there to enhance the flow from National League isn't he, do you not think he will do a good job?

 

[Captain Dart]

Yeah, maybe there's a dark cellar buried deep under Ryton, where the new owners will
Stumble across Steve Waggot, Red Ken, Anderson, Mark Venus and numerous other
Former directors, all chained up and living on stale water and cold pies.

Sorry there are no more pies.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

It was just the first 2 I remembered who were outraged and stuff being leaked, I remember Moz also saying about "what is the agenda or them leaking info to their PR man" and not being happy about it.. There was even talk about the "takeover" being de-railed because the info was shared.



It's a bit confusing it goes from that to being sent out on a press release.

Funny how you remember what I say but conveniently chose not to remember what others say.

 

[Nick]

Funny how you remember what I say but conveniently chose not to remember what others say.

I remember it because I remember discussing it with you

I don't choose what I remember, maybe your posts just stick with me.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

I remember it because I remember discussing it with you

I don't choose what I remember, maybe your posts just stick with me.

Ahhhhhhhhhh

 

[skybluetony176]

I have to giggle at your juvenile attempts at appearing smart

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

OK. Answer me this then. Let's say for arguments sake that the squad is worth £10M with add ons but anything received up front is used to plug holes and then any subsequent received add ons are then used to plug holes leaving you with 0% of £10M or you sell everything now for £2M and you can then take 100% of £2M. Would you take 0% of £10M or 100% of £2M? Which option is therefore more valuable?

 

[Liquid Gold]

When will it all just fucking end

 

[oldskyblue58]

Any one actually clear as to what is being bid for? I am no longer certain

a) ownership of Otium
b) assets less football creditors
c) something else

I cannot see why anyone would buy Otium

 

[oldskyblue58]

Could. With the season ticket boycott and likely falls in attendances next season it seems highly unlikely that SISU won't have to put their hands in their pockets. Has to be equity as well doesn't it under SCMP so they'll never get it back.

Fact is that player sales are actually worth more to SISU's pocket if they're sold under Hoff's ownership than they are under SISU's ownership because as long as SISU are owners the money goes straight back to the club to plug holes so SISU don't have to. They never see the upfront fee or the add ons of players sales unless you believe the theory that SISU are taking millions out of the club. The only way that they can do that is by selling the squad as part of the club. It's a red herring to say that the squad is worth more than what Hoff is offering up front because the simple fact is that they don't have access to the squad value by selling the players themselves.

but the SISU expectation is not asset based, so discussion on player values is irrelevant, and small upfront payments followed by huge add ons really don't get the deal,( if there is one) done, Therefore no choice based on those criteria to be made by SISU

 

[oucho]

When will it all just fucking end

Agree - it is fair to say that the end does not seem to be within sight.

 

[Astute]

But she isn't saying anything is she........... so she has shut up. It isn't Seppala or SISU wasting anyone's time in truth over negotiations or bids. They have never said they are looking for offers, or even that CCFC is for sale (quite the opposite isn't it) and any bids from GH have been firmly and promptly rebutted, there have been no negotiations going on or invited. That's not defending her or pro SISU for anyone reading this, its just what is. It is clear isn't it, and only hope being stirred up that got everyone excited. So guess it is your final sentence

Like I said there has never been any need to sell displayed. All the noise has come from elsewhere

I agree with all of it. The put up or shut up was meant for those putting the bids in though. Reach a certain valuation or don't bother. There will be an amount that she would sell for. But as I said earlier I don't think that it will be a realistic amount. And I can't see the uncertainty helping ticket sales.

 

[Nick]

And I can't see the uncertainty helping ticket sales.

Maybe that's part of the plan?

Definitely more to why he has also done a U turn on whether it should be public or not and why he is now going on about not renewing

 

[weecohawena]

Just checking there's still no takeover.

Carry on

 

[hill83]

When will it all just fucking end

Whenever you want it to really.

 

[skybluetony176]

but the SISU expectation is not asset based, so discussion on player values is irrelevant, and small upfront payments followed by huge add ons really don't get the deal,( if there is one) done, Therefore no choice based on those criteria to be made by SISU

Which is sort of the point I'm making. Posters keep saying £2M isn't even the value of the squad as if somehow it's derisory because they could sell the players for more. I agree it's irrelevant. If SISU sell the players the funds will be used to plug holes not to keep Joy in handbag's. If they took the £2M of Hoff upfront the losses become someone else's problem, Joy can book a taxi to Harrods and spend £2M on handbag's to her heart is content.

 

[Liquid Gold]

 

[Nick]

Which is sort of the point I'm making. Posters keep saying £2M isn't even the value of the squad as if somehow it's derisory because they could sell the players for more. I agree it's irrelevant. If SISU sell the players the funds will be used to plug holes not to keep Joy in handbag's. If they took the £2M of Hoff upfront the losses become someone else's problem, Joy can book a taxi to Harrods and spend £2M on handbag's to her heart is content.

Surely if they wanted to they would just call in some debt / interest and take the cash?

 

[skybluetony176]

Surely if they wanted to they would just call in some debt / interest and take the cash?

And what happens to the holes in the accounts? Do they just stop paying something/someone? Do we go under transfer embargo which would surely increase the velocity of our downwards spiral? How much would CCFC be worth as a non league team?

 

[Nick]

And what happens to the holes in the accounts? Do they just stop paying something/someone? Do we go under transfer embargo which would surely increase the velocity of our downwards spiral? How much would CCFC be worth as a non league team?

That's why I said if they wanted to take some cash.

 

[dongonzalos]

or they are offering something they know has no real substance cc4l

For what purpose OSB?

 

[dongonzalos]

You didn't tell them you were an Oligarch did you?

I told them my mates Oli, Garth and Rich also wanted to meet them. I guess there may have been some confusion.

 

[Nick]

For what purpose OSB?

Because to say £20m sounds better doesn't it?

 

[dongonzalos]

In the real world, people aren't so silly as to go public with such information.

In the real world when someone bids for something and the person they are trying to buy from feels the offer made is too small. They then never give them a hint at what a suitable offer would sound like??
As usual your version of the real world is very different to everyone else's.

 

[dongonzalos]

Because to say £20m sounds better doesn't it?

What is the purpose of submitting a bid if you believe it will never be accepted?

 

[Nick]

In the real world when someone bids for something and the person they are trying to buy from feels the offer made is too small. They then never give them a hint at what a suitable offer would sound like??
As usual your version of the real world is very different to everyone else's.

Surely they do if they are mega keen on selling it?

I don't want to sell my house, if somebody offered me a small % of what I wanted one day I'd laugh at them and tell them to piss off. I wouldn't book a valuation and get him round for a survey.

It is assuming too much she wants to sell it to Hoffman isn't it?

 

[Nick]

What is the purpose of submitting a bid if you believe it will never be accepted?

No idea... That's what I am interested to know.

Probably the same as ranting about things being made public 1 minute and then sending out press releases to the media the next.

It's all very strange.

My opinion is that it's some sort of PR tactic / game or to try and apply pressure.

 

[dongonzalos]

As I read it there is more or less guaranteed
a. £2M up front
b. ~£3M share of transfer dealings for 3 years
c. ~£0.5M promotion to league one
d. ~£4.5M sale of Ryton

So £10M, which is where I thought Joy's minimum figure would be, but she is a greedy so & so hence she probably wants £12M.
I suspect she feels safe hanging on another year as it stands with no -ve cashflow and an indication of the court case outcome expected in that time.

The fat lady has yet to arrive at the changing room. :emoji_cry:

That's the reason for me. I guess there is some link between the level compensation and still owning the club. (Just a guess)

 

[dongonzalos]

But she isn't saying anything is she........... so she has shut up. It isn't Seppala or SISU wasting anyone's time in truth over negotiations or bids. They have never said they are looking for offers, or even that CCFC is for sale (quite the opposite isn't it) and any bids from GH have been firmly and promptly rebutted, there have been no negotiations going on or invited. That's not defending her or pro SISU for anyone reading this, its just what is. It is clear isn't it, and only hope being stirred up that got everyone excited. So guess it is your final sentence

Like I said there has never been any need to sell displayed. All the noise has come from elsewhere

Mixed messages to be fair. They have continually said it's not for sale. Then just last year Mr Fisher said every club is for sale and the actions of the fans protests) is putting people off buying.

 

[dongonzalos]

Surely they do if they are mega keen on selling it?

I don't want to sell my house, if somebody offered me a small % of what I wanted one day I'd laugh at them and tell them to piss off. I wouldn't book a valuation and get him round for a survey.

It is assuming too much she wants to sell it to Hoffman isn't it?

Until last year they kept saying that dont won't to sell as the club was at the bottom end of the business cycle.
Then during the season Mr Fisher said every club is for sale and the protests were putting people off.
So I honestly don't know if it is for sale or not. They talked about buying land, building a new stadium. A new training facility. The only action I have actually seen is a proactive approach to getting Ryton in a position where it can be sold for housing. That money is already promised to ARVO.
They were never returning to the CCC duristriction.
They would only ever return to the Ricoh as owners of Coventry.
Building a new stadium is the only plan.
Long term rental agreement at the Ricoh is now Plan A.
The Butts is the preferred plan.

So it's very hard to know what to believe regarding the club and what not to.

Whereas with Mr Hoffman he hasn't got a history of conflicting statements.
So I think it is unlikely that he would go to all this time and effort on a bid that he either hasn't got the money for. Or that he doesn't believe is a realistic bid.
He must think that if he was in SISU's shoes he would take it.

On the balance of probabilities you would have to say it's a genuine bid that he believed should have a chance.

 

[Nick]

Whereas with Mr Hoffman he hasn't got a history of conflicting statements.
So I think it is unlikely that he would go to all this time and effort on a bid that he either hasn't got the money for. Or that he doesn't believe is a realistic bid.
He must think that if he was in SISU's shoes he would take it.

He has a history of pointless bids though doesn't he?

I am not sure if he is just working his way up slowly to try and see if they would accept it. There is something going on.

 

[dongonzalos]

No idea... That's what I am interested to know.

Probably the same as ranting about things being made public 1 minute and then sending out press releases to the media the next.

It's all very strange.

My opinion is that it's some sort of PR tactic / game or to try and apply pressure.

To what end. We are repeatedly told on here that SISU don't care about public opinion.
Why would he go to all these lengths just to get PR against them?
He is hypocritical moaning about the way the first bid was leaked. Then doing this interview.
He was right to do the interview. Joy should do one as well clarifying her stance.
Mr Hoffman should have moaned about the tone of the first leaked article. Not that it happened.