The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (128 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Oh well, it won't be long until the Euro collapses, and Austria, Holland and France leave the fascist commie EUSSR!

Does anyone know when Turkey is joining the EU, BTW?

 

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[Grendel]

Oh well, it won't be long until the Euro collapses, and Austria, Holland and France leave the fascist commie EUSSR!

Does anyone know when Turkey is joining the EU, BTW?

Do you think our relative wealth and prosperity in the last 20 years would have been better or worse than if we were in the Euro?

Do you think we should be in the Euro?

 

[Sick Boy]

Do you think our relative wealth and prosperity in the last 20 years would have been better or worse than if we were in the Euro?

Do you think we should be in the Euro?

I would rather we spoke French and drove on the right.

 

[Grendel]

I would rather we spoke French and drove on the right.

I would be interested in the answer to the question? Would we have been better in the euro or has our currency valuation globally been high as we weren't.

We know the answer but I'd like you to admit it.

 

[Sick Boy]

I would be interested in the answer to the question? Would we have been better in the euro or has our currency valuation globally been high as we weren't.

We know the answer but I'd like you to admit it.

I seem to remember you dodging plenty of questions.

I'm just surprised that such a small country could have such wealth and importance despite being in the EU. Surely we could be in the to 3 economies in the world in a few years now that we are on the verge of breaking free and we will all be richer, as your mate Farage claimed.

 

[Grendel]

I seem to remember you dodging plenty of questions.

I'm just surprised that such a small country could have such wealth and importance despite being in the EU. Surely we could be in the to 3 economies in the world in a few years now that we are on the verge of breaking free and we will all be richer, as your mate Farage claimed.

We weren't in the Euro that's why we enjoyed wealth and prosperity. Do you agree?

I'll answer any question you pose of you do me the courtesy and answer my question.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

To hate them is a reaction to them.

Is that where it begins though? Others latch onto your stance...then a few thugs think it's a good crack to escalate reactions...then a few more...& before you know where you are you might be surrounded by nutters clouding what you claim as your right & honourable stance. You may end up walking away in disgust whilst the thugs have a nice day out.

Guess to me I am putting the twist on it it that applied to the 'black lives matter' thing. They matter so much that black people lay in the road in front of cars!

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[clint van damme]

Is that where it begins though? Others latch onto your stance...then a few thugs think it's a good crack to escalate reactions...then a few more...& before you know where you are you might be surrounded by nutters clouding what you claim as your right & honourable stance. You may end up walking away in disgust whilst the thugs have a nice day out.

Guess to me I am putting the twist on it it that applied to the 'black lives matter' thing. They matter so much that black people lay in the road in front of cars!

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that bit in bold is beyond stupid.

 

[martcov]

Me to as it will make companies like mine incredibly rich and I get an even bigger bonus.

If that means my next Discovery will be cheaper, then I will benefit as well. But how many normal people will be getting big bonuses and buying cheaper Discoveries and Range Rovers?

 

[martcov]

Is that where it begins though? Others latch onto your stance...then a few thugs think it's a good crack to escalate reactions...then a few more...& before you know where you are you might be surrounded by nutters clouding what you claim as your right & honourable stance. You may end up walking away in disgust whilst the thugs have a nice day out.

Guess to me I am putting the twist on it it that applied to the 'black lives matter' thing. They matter so much that black people lay in the road in front of cars!

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I hate the violent nutters from the left just as much. Unfortunately the right needs them as much as they need right wing violent nutters.

 

[martcov]

We weren't in the Euro that's why we enjoyed wealth and prosperity. Do you agree?

I'll answer any question you pose of you do me the courtesy and answer my question.

We were in the EU and became more wealthy than we were out of it.

 

[Grendel]

We were in the EU and became more wealthy than we were out of it.

Nope we weren't in the Euro and hugely benefited from our ability to control our exchange rate. Remember the ERM?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

that bit in bold is beyond stupid.

On who's part?
Mine for thinking they matter a damn site more than lying in front of cars? Or theirs for thinking that is a good way to make the point...risking that they lay down in front of some idiot who doesn't think black lives matter?

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[clint van damme]

On who's part?
Mine for thinking they matter a damn site more than lying in front of cars? Or theirs for thinking that is a good way to make the point...risking that they lay down in front of some idiot who doesn't think black lives matter?

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I just thought it was a very flippant comment about a serious situation.
We've all seen the footage - innocent black people, doing nothing wrong, not resisting arrest, murdered, and that's what it is, murdered by the police. In one case, shot in the back.

Do you think people want to risk their lives protesting, or are they so angry, so frightened by what has happened that they are doing whatever they can to bring attention to the issue.

I like your contribution to these debates even though I don't always agree with you but I thought that comment was out of line.

 

[martcov]

Nope we weren't in the Euro and hugely benefited from our ability to control our exchange rate. Remember the ERM?

Remember the. U.K. going to the IMF? Begging bowl in hand. Holiday cut short by chancellor etc.? No, conveniently not. Or the "pound in your pocket", devaluation etc.? Now that we're leaving it's different ..... or is it? Pie in the sky demands made by a Brexit ministry led by a drunken aggressive yob expecting 27 countries to cave in..... let's see how far the pound will be forcibly devalued ( so much to control ) when the Brexit talks crash. We will probably get the usual "it is good for exports" or maybe the good old "the pound in your pocket will not be effected" - might get away with that as the present generations won't remember the negative effects of a devalued pound.

 

[martcov]

Nope we weren't in the Euro and hugely benefited from our ability to control our exchange rate. Remember the ERM?

Actually, if you read my quote I said EU and not Euro, but don't let facts get in your way...

 

[Grendel]

Remember the. U.K. going to the IMF? Begging bowl in hand. Holiday cut short by chancellor etc.? No, conveniently not. Or the "pound in your pocket", devaluation etc.? Now that we're leaving it's different ..... or is it? Pie in the sky demands made by a Brexit ministry led by a drunken aggressive yob expecting 27 countries to cave in..... let's see how far the pound will be forcibly devalued ( so much to control ) when the Brexit talks crash. We will probably get the usual "it is good for exports" or maybe the good old "the pound in your pocket will not be effected" - might get away with that as the present generations won't remember the negative effects of a devalued pound.

Yeah I remember all that imf stuff in the 70's - we were in the EU through all of it weren't we?

 

[Grendel]

I would rather we spoke French and drove on the right.

Looks like the French have grown tired of their dribbling little euriphile already

Emmanuel Macron's popularity falls faster than any French president ever

 

[martcov]

Yeah I remember all that imf stuff in the 70's - we were in the EU through all of it weren't we?

The common market.. not the EU or customs union. And some of that was the 60s when we were begging to be allowed in to the common market. Germany wanted us in and France said non several times. France thought we would screw it up.... I wonder why?

 

[martcov]

Looks like the French have grown tired of their dribbling little euriphile already

Emmanuel Macron's popularity falls faster than any French president ever

Yes terrible. Similar to Farage's mate Trump. Must be the MSM's fault printing fake news ;-)...

 

[Grendel]

The common market.. not the EU or customs union. And some of that was the 60s when we were begging to be allowed in to the common market. Germany wanted us in and France said non several times. France thought we would screw it up.... I wonder why?

The main contributor to our growth has been our refusal to join the Euro. That gave us an advantage in exchange rates and without it we'd be looking at being like other basket cases like Italy and Spain.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I just thought it was a very flippant comment about a serious situation.
We've all seen the footage - innocent black people, doing nothing wrong, not resisting arrest, murdered, and that's what it is, murdered by the police. In one case, shot in the back.

Do you think people want to risk their lives protesting, or are they so angry, so frightened by what has happened that they are doing whatever they can to bring attention to the issue.

I like your contribution to these debates even though I don't always agree with you but I thought that comment was out of line.

Certainly wasn't meaning to be flippant over this. BOTH are big issues & I wish I could think of a workable solution...but I suspect that a lot of it is down to basic human nature. Everything happens for a reason...& to some the reasons are simply too complex that the solutions become easier. That usually involves some form of scapegoating or generalisations which both seem to cause similar harm

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[martcov]

The main contributor to our growth has been our refusal to join the Euro. That gave us an advantage in exchange rates and without it we'd be looking at being like other basket cases like Italy and Spain.

So to obtain growth all you have to do is to refuse to join the euro? I don't think it is that easy otherwise countries like Germany would have refused to join.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So to obtain growth all you have to do is to refuse to join the euro? I don't think it is that easy otherwise countries like Germany would have refused to join.

The Euro suits Germany down to the ground as a net exporter to traditionally poorer parts of Europe. The value of the Euro might be competitive for Germany but doesn't mean it is for other countries in Europe.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

It sounds as though the euro will be more valuable then the pound after the new year.

euro more valuable than the pound?

I prefer a more positive interpretation:

The pound will become even more competitive than the euro.

Bring it on!

 

[Kingokings204]

The Euro suits Germany down to the ground as a net exporter to traditionally poorer parts of Europe. The value of the Euro might be competitive for Germany but doesn't mean it is for other countries in Europe.

Yes exactly. The euro works lovely for Germany as they set the interest rates and value to all intents and purposes but it doesn't suit all the countries in southern Europe on the med who have completely different make up. They heavily depend upon tourism and fresh fruits. Completely different to Germany to sell lots of cars in engineering for example. Not to mention tax avoidance problems well documented in Greece etc. Problem is they are both stuck in the same currency.

Greeces problems are caused by being in the euro. Youth unemployment was 50% at one stage and their bond markets were in double digits with debt GDP ratio of nearly 200%. (If people understand this) If they left the euro and got back the drachma let's say. They can undervalue and boost foot fall , investment, more jobs and spending and works towards getting back to an even keel which grant it will take time. As it stands it's borrowed way more than it can ever even dream to pay back and will need more down the future. The bailouts ( approx 400billion euros) they have got haven't helped Greece one bit which is what we are meant to think it's just trapped them further and helped out failing italien french and German banks who can now cream the interest. It's a con.

How many eu countries have been bailed out now? 5 is it? Soon to be Italy perhaps who voted against the euro effectively last year when the pm got told where to go. France even struggle and they are touching Germany.

It doesn't work!!!!

 

[Kingokings204]

It was once said by an ex Bank of England governor that's its "hard enough to set the interest rates for Newcastle and London let alone Germany and Greece."

He is right.

 

[martcov]

Yes exactly. The euro works lovely for Germany as they set the interest rates and value to all intents and purposes but it doesn't suit all the countries in southern Europe on the med who have completely different make up. They heavily depend upon tourism and fresh fruits. Completely different to Germany to sell lots of cars in engineering for example. Not to mention tax avoidance problems well documented in Greece etc. Problem is they are both stuck in the same currency.

Greeces problems are caused by being in the euro. Youth unemployment was 50% at one stage and their bond markets were in double digits with debt GDP ratio of nearly 200%. (If people understand this) If they left the euro and got back the drachma let's say. They can undervalue and boost foot fall , investment, more jobs and spending and works towards getting back to an even keel which grant it will take time. As it stands it's borrowed way more than it can ever even dream to pay back and will need more down the future. The bailouts ( approx 400billion euros) they have got haven't helped Greece one bit which is what we are meant to think it's just trapped them further and helped out failing italien french and German banks who can now cream the interest. It's a con.

How many eu countries have been bailed out now? 5 is it? Soon to be Italy perhaps who voted against the euro effectively last year when the pm got told where to go. France even struggle and they are touching Germany.

It doesn't work!!!!

Er no. Greece spent more than it had. Greeks have a different morale as far as paying taxes go. The wealthier Greeks moved billions out of the country. The interest rates are set by the EZB. As regards creaming the interest, we have the lowest interest rates in memory. This helps people repay their debts. If we had higher interest these countries would long be bankrupt- really bankrupt.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes exactly. The euro works lovely for Germany as they set the interest rates and value to all intents and purposes but it doesn't suit all the countries in southern Europe on the med who have completely different make up. They heavily depend upon tourism and fresh fruits. Completely different to Germany to sell lots of cars in engineering for example. Not to mention tax avoidance problems well documented in Greece etc. Problem is they are both stuck in the same currency.

Greeces problems are caused by being in the euro. Youth unemployment was 50% at one stage and their bond markets were in double digits with debt GDP ratio of nearly 200%. (If people understand this) If they left the euro and got back the drachma let's say. They can undervalue and boost foot fall , investment, more jobs and spending and works towards getting back to an even keel which grant it will take time. As it stands it's borrowed way more than it can ever even dream to pay back and will need more down the future. The bailouts ( approx 400billion euros) they have got haven't helped Greece one bit which is what we are meant to think it's just trapped them further and helped out failing italien french and German banks who can now cream the interest. It's a con.

How many eu countries have been bailed out now? 5 is it? Soon to be Italy perhaps who voted against the euro effectively last year when the pm got told where to go. France even struggle and they are touching Germany.

It doesn't work!!!!

Greece are knackered either way, go back to the Drachma they still have massive Euro denominated debt to repay. The creditors have already taken a haircut but realistically they're never getting that money back.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Er no. Greece spent more than it had. Greeks have a different morale as far as paying taxes go. The wealthier Greeks moved billions out of the country. The interest rates are set by the EZB. As regards creaming the interest, we have the lowest interest rates in memory. This helps people repay their debts. If we had higher interest these countries would long be bankrupt- really bankrupt.

Why was it allowed to join the Eurozone then?

 

[skybluetony176]

The main contributor to our growth has been our refusal to join the Euro. That gave us an advantage in exchange rates and without it we'd be looking at being like other basket cases like Italy and Spain.

So in 2004 when the economy was booming and the pound was at 1.70 against the euro that was great for the growth of the British economy and now the pound is at an all time low and starting polarity with the euro in the face this is still good for the growth of the British economy? You're going to have to explain how that works because on face value of your fact less opinion it seems that you're trying to butter your bread both sides so long as you can say brexit isn't a mistake. Fact is the country had it's longest period of sustained growth ever while a willing member of the EU and the value of the pound reflects this.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So in 2004 when the economy was booming and the pound was at 1.70 against the euro that was great for the growth of the British economy and now the pound is at an all time low and starting polarity with the euro in the face this is still good for the growth of the British economy? You're going to have to explain how that works because on face value of your fact less opinion it seems that you're trying to butter your bread both sides so long as you can say brexit isn't a mistake. Fact is the country had it's longest period of sustained growth ever while a willing member of the EU and the value of the pound reflects this.

Tony, start with some facts. I think the highest rate ever was in the region of 1.60-1.65. By 2004 the highest exchange rate was 1.45. The current rate is still higher than it dropped to around 2009/10.

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[Kingokings204]

Er no. Greece spent more than it had. Greeks have a different morale as far as paying taxes go. The wealthier Greeks moved billions out of the country. The interest rates are set by the EZB. As regards creaming the interest, we have the lowest interest rates in memory. This helps people repay their debts. If we had higher interest these countries would long be bankrupt- really bankrupt.

That's just pure rubbish. so the euro is good for Greece and giving them more and more money at Low interest rates is good for Greece and whilst you're at it blaming Greeks for overspending and them moving their money out the country.

You really hate Greece don't you. They have failed in your beloved EU. And you are too in denial to see the real issues.

Mart, Greece is failing because its trapped in a currency it never should of joined which even the big politicians all admit now. Trouble is they havent got the balls to let the banks go bust because if they do the EU goes bust because as I said it's German french and Italian banks that have bailed them out to the tune of 400 billion so if they don't get their money back the whole thing goes bang. If they let the banks go bust and then Greece have a chance. At the moment there are no jobs and no hope with big austerity. It's a third world country effectively.

And don't even get me started on constant boats turning up on random beaches for of hundreds of people from Africa illegally in front of tourists meaning they probably don't come back so costing them income they badly need. All because the eu policy of yes come come come. So guess what they have come. Greece then have to house and feed all these people. It can't afford to.

 

[Sick Boy]

What exactly is the timescale on the EU crumbling apart and Austria, Holland and France leaving it as well?

 

[Kingokings204]

Why was it allowed to join the Eurozone then?

Greece never should of joined. All the economists at the time said it would be a disaster but big businesses and big politics talked them in to it. It was part of the jigsaw to create the super state. One fits all size. The eu by its very nature want a borderless state with one currency one army, one foreign policy etc etc etc. now if you believe that then fine you must love the EU but I certainly don't believe in it. I believe in borders and currencies and sovereign parliaments controlled by the voter.

Greece invented democracy and have basically turned into a third world country and had democracy crushed and been humiliated around the world. I remember when papandraou called a referendum on leaving the eu and the eu commission had him removed and replaced with a golden Sachs puppet in charge. Arrrgggghhhh makes me so mad.