The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Are you going to answer the question or not?

With respect I asked the question why you compared London to Catalonia first and you've not answered have you. When you do I've course I will answer.

 

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[Astute]

I thought that was Spain not the EU.



Mythos?

Mythos is a decent lager. One of the rare drinks that is as good out of a tin, bottle or even draught.

But what has Greece got to do with Spain?

 

[martcov]

Seriously you are beyond a laughing stock.

You see the only reason the U.K. Wouldn't be allowed a no strings attached free trade deal is spite. They have numerous deals with other countries - 27 is it now - and none of those countries offer anything like the balance of trade benefits the uk offers - so if the uk was say in a different location - say Australia and there was this huge trade surplus in the Euro favour they'd be fawning all over them for a trade deal

In the end that's the debate over. There is no logical argument as to why the eu wouldn't offer the deal as it's in the European business interests.

That is what the Euro is about isn't it? Benefitting members.

I asked you a question about Boris Johnson actually. I said it would take a very bad thing or someone saying something really bad to get enough MEPs to vote because of hate as opposed to rationality ( Boris came to mind ). I was thinking that some hardliner may create hate and spite. What you call spite at the moment, would be the known consensus that Britain shouldn't be better off having left than the remaining members. Sort of a reasonable wish on the part of the remaining members.

As you say the members want to see that they benefit. If the business interests would suffer that greatly, then they would have to take the lesser evil and let Britain be better off.

That is the speculation from, amongst others, Farage who helped lead us into this position. He hopes that the FDP ( Liberals ) will put pressure on Merkel to look after German business interests and therefore British interests before European ( EU ) interests. We'll see what actually happens there.

A united Europe with no hard borders is also a strategic wish - not just economic - for countries that have seen borders move back and forth over the centuries. Britain is different as it has no land borders and has not been invaded for a long long time.

 

[martcov]

Mythos is a decent lager. One of the rare drinks that is as good out of a tin, bottle or even draught.

But what has Greece got to do with Spain?

I thought you were still in Greece.

 

[Grendel]

I asked you a question about Boris Johnson actually. I said it would take a very bad thing or someone saying something really bad to get enough MEPs to vote because of hate as opposed to rationality ( Boris came to mind ). I was thinking that some hardliner may create hate and spite. What you call spite at the moment, would be the known consensus that Britain shouldn't be better off having left than the remaining members. Sort of a reasonable wish on the part of the remaining members.

As you say the members want to see that they benefit. If the business interests would suffer that greatly, then they would have to take the lesser evil and let Britain be better off.

That is the speculation from, amongst others, Farage who helped lead us into this position. He hopes that the FDP ( Liberals ) will put pressure on Merkel to look after German business interests and therefore British interests before European ( EU ) interests. We'll see what actually happens there.

A united Europe with no hard borders is also a strategic wish - not just economic - for countries that have seen borders move back and forth over the centuries. Britain is different as it has no land borders and has not been invaded for a long long time.

So if we were Australia with the same trade benefits to the member states then they'd want a no strings free trade deal?

 

[Sick Boy]

With respect I asked the question why you compared London to Catalonia first and you've not answered have you. When you do I've course I will answer.

I admit it was possibly not like for like.

 

[Sick Boy]

Mythos is a decent lager. One of the rare drinks that is as good out of a tin, bottle or even draught.

But what has Greece got to do with Spain?

What has 4 blowhards arguing about Spainish domestic affairs got to do with the EU?

 

[martcov]

The majority of those wanting to stay part of Spain said they weren't going to go out and vote.

yes that was similar in the Dombass. Before the Russians took over there was a demonstration of people with Ukrainian flags. They got banged to pieces by masked men. After that it was only pro Russian demonstrations. I don't know what would have happened to pro Spanish supporters waving Spanish flags in the middle of this crisis. We will not know the true result unless a vote is held under peaceful and calm conditions.

 

[Astute]

Yes. That is the present situation. It is not the only possible situation though, but what else can they say based on the present legalities. I class a step towards mediation as placing a stop on the independence issue immediately on condition of commencing serious talks to find a solution.

More like the only situation which the EU can have a say without risking further the collapse of the EU.

They mention nothing against the attackers but threaten the attacked. Says it all to me and millions others.

 

[Astute]

What has 4 blowhards arguing about Spainish domestic affairs got to do with the EU?

Little surprise for you.

Spain is in the EU. The EU had a chance of being useful for once. But they threaten the little man instead of offering to mediate as usual.

 

[Sick Boy]

Little surprise for you.

Spain is in the EU. The EU had a chance of being useful for once. But they threaten the little man instead of offering to mediate as usual.

As a neutral, I though you said there were many benefits to the EU? Now it's never useful? Again, it shouldn't and doesn't get involved in domestic affairs. It shouldn't do either.

 

[Astute]

yes that was similar in the Dombass. Before the Russians took over there was a demonstration of people with Ukrainian flags. They got banged to pieces by masked men. After that it was only pro Russian demonstrations. I don't know what would have happened to pro Spanish supporters waving Spanish flags in the middle of this crisis. We will not know the true result unless a vote is held under peaceful and calm conditions.

So why won't Spain allow the vote? Other than the vast majority wants change.

I hate bullies and bullying. And this is bullying at its worse.

 

[Astute]

As a neutral, I though you said there were many benefits to the EU? Now it's never useful? Again, it shouldn't and doesn't get involved in domestic affairs. It shouldn't do either.

If it doesn't get involved why is it threatening the Catalonian people?

 

[Sick Boy]

If it doesn't get involved why is it threatening the Catalonian people?

How is it threatening them?

 

[chiefdave]

You see the only reason the U.K. Wouldn't be allowed a no strings attached free trade deal is spite.

Are the US, Canada and New Zealand, among others, also acting out of spite?

The Trump administration has joined a group of countries objecting to a deal between the UK and EU to divide valuable agricultural import quotas, in a sign of how the US and others plan to use Brexit to force the UK to further open its sensitive market for farm products.

President Donald Trump has been one of the most prominent international backers of Brexit and has vowed quickly to negotiate a “beautiful trade deal” with the UK after it leaves the EU.

But his administration’s objection to a preliminary plan, agreed to by Brussels and London over how to split the EU’s existing “tariff rate quotas” under World Trade Organisation rules after the UK assumes its own WTO obligations following Brexit, illustrates how Washington is likely to drive a hard bargain.

 

[Grendel]

Are the US, Canada and New Zealand, among others, also acting out of spite?

Do they have a trade balance in their favour in the same magnitude we have Dave with Europe? Or has my point escaped you?

 

[Astute]

Do they have a trade balance in their favour in the same magnitude we have Dave with Europe? Or has my point escaped you?

Your point will escape them as you are not pro EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

With respect I asked the question why you compared London to Catalonia first and you've not answered have you. When you do I've course I will answer.

Are you going to answer the question? Presumably you'd be in favour of Scottish or Welsh independence a referendum took place with approval of parliament?

 

[Sick Boy]

Your point will escape them as you are not pro EU.

Coming from the most anti-EU poster on this forum.

 

[Grendel]

Are you going to answer the question? Presumably you'd be in favour of Scottish or Welsh independence a referendum took place with approval of parliament?

Yes I would.

 

[Astute]

Are you going to answer the question? Presumably you'd be in favour of Scottish or Welsh independence a referendum took place with approval of parliament?

The Scottish wanted a referendum. They were allowed one. They voted to stay. Then as she didn't get the result she wanted she started moaning like a remoaner. She then lost a lot of votes. She has had ti admit that the Scottish people don't want what she wants.

The Catalan people want a referendum. They got refused. Their government (yes they do have their own government, ministers and parliament) went ahead with it as they have had enough of the Spanish government taking away all of their rights. So the Spanish government sent in the Spanish police to beat up badly those wanting to vote. Now the EU is threatening to throw them out of the EU.

And some can't see anything wrong with it all.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes I would.

Apologies, I meant WITHOUT.

 

[Astute]

Coming from the most anti-EU poster on this forum.

I am not anti EU. But I can see what they do wrong. I can see that they don't want what is best for the people. They have their aims and nothing else seems to happen.

You? You don't seem to care about the homeless. You are always happy to blame people for it. But you can't come out with ways of easing the problem. All you can come out with is the one way which continually makes it worse. When something bad happens you are at the front of the queue to make excuses for the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

The Scottish wanted a referendum. They were allowed one. They voted to stay. Then as she didn't get the result she wanted she started moaning like a remoaner. She then lost a lot of votes. She has had ti admit that the Scottish people don't want what she wants.

The Catalan people want a referendum. They got refused. Their government (yes they do have their own government, ministers and parliament) went ahead with it as they have had enough of the Spanish government taking away all of their rights. So the Spanish government sent in the Spanish police to beat up badly those wanting to vote. Now the EU is threatening to throw them out of the EU.

And some can't see anything wrong with it all.

So presumably if Scotland declared that afree Brexit they wanted another referendum and parliament said no you would fully support them declaring independence following a mock referendum?

 

[Sick Boy]

I am not anti EU. But I can see what they do wrong. I can see that they don't want what is best for the people. They have their aims and nothing else seems to happen.

You? You don't seem to care about the homeless. You are always happy to blame people for it. But you can't come out with ways of easing the problem. All you can come out with is the one way which continually makes it worse. When something bad happens you are at the front of the queue to make excuses for the EU.

For the 3rd time, I've already detailed on here the work I have done and do for the homeless. I'm not about to make 5% of the population scapegoats for it though.

 

[Grendel]

So presumably if Scotland declared that afree Brexit they wanted another referendum and parliament said no you would fully support them declaring independence following a mock referendum?

There's an irony there isn't there as not only would it be Brexit but also out of EU at the same time

 

[Astute]

So presumably if Scotland declared that afree Brexit they wanted another referendum and parliament said no you would fully support them declaring independence following a mock referendum?

Of course I would support it.

They had their vote. But that was when we were in and staying in the EU. If we ever do end up leaving they should have the right to decide.

 

[Astute]

For the 3rd time, I've already detailed on here the work I have done and do for the homeless. I'm not about to make 5% of the population scapegoats for it though.

One question.

If you know how badly being homeless affects people why are you 100% behind anyone from the EU being able to come and live here which makes the problem worse when there is nothing in place to even keep the housing shortage level with how bad it is now?

 

[skybluetony176]

Do they have a trade balance in their favour in the same magnitude we have Dave with Europe? Or has my point escaped you?

Our current trade levels with the EU is based on us being a member of the EU. Are you seriously suggesting that the dynamics of our trade wouldn’t be different if we’d never joined the EU? The US, Canada and New Zealand aren’t and never have been part of the EU. Their trading dynamics are completely different to that of a member state of the EU. If you’re going to compare eggs you have to compare them with eggs.

 

[martcov]

Try being serious about Greece then.

Greece used to be a country of rich and poor people. Now after joining the EU and having the same currency tied to how Germany is doing it has changed. There are hardly any rich people left. The vast majority are either poor or destitute. But I will say one thing. The vast majority are still lovely people. But they are realistic. They can't afford to leave the EU. But they also know nothing will change if they stay in.

I was talking to someone from Romania who is working in the hotel. It is his first and last season there. To him the money wasn't bad. But the price of living for him is astronomical. He has been offered a job over here. He will be living in Cambridge and working on a farm. He knows it won't be easy. But it will be much easier than he has it now. He is working up to 16 hours a day 7 days a week.

We went out for a meal a couple of days ago. The wife was surprised to see the waitress. She had done their nails earlier in the day. She has a family with two young kids. But she can't afford to spend time at home with her family. And they still rely on tips to get by.

Then you say good for holidaymakers. Would you like to tell me in which way?

Meant ironically

 

[skybluetony176]

There's an irony there isn't there as not only would it be Brexit but also out of EU at the same time

Why would it? Scotland is currently a member of the EU. Why would that change if they gained independence from the rest of the UK pre brexit?

 

[Sick Boy]

One question.

If you know how badly being homeless affects people why are you 100% behind anyone from the EU being able to come and live here which makes the problem worse when there is nothing in place to even keep the housing shortage level with how bad it is now?

Because I refuse to indulge in dog whistle politics and do hold blame 5% of the population for the housing crisis.

 

[Astute]

Our current trade levels with the EU is based on us being a member of the EU. Are you seriously suggesting that the dynamics of our trade wouldn’t be different if we’d never joined the EU? The US, Canada and New Zealand aren’t and never have been part of the EU. Their trading dynamics are completely different to that of a member state of the EU. If you’re going to compare eggs you have to compare them with eggs.

Yes eggs with eggs.

So how many eggs is it going to cost us to sell in the EU? How many eggs is it going to cost EU countries to trade with us?

We already trade with countries all over the world. We have done for hundreds of years. But EU rules stops us from having trade deals. Trade deals will be beneficial to both sides. It won't be as hard as many would like you to believe.

Why do companies from all over the world come here to use our experience and expertise? We will

 

[martcov]

So if we were Australia with the same trade benefits to the member states then they'd want a no strings free trade deal?

Don't know.

 

[Astute]

Because I refuse to indulge in dog whistle politics and do hold blame 5% of the population for the housing crisis.

Don't worry. It is the same question that can't be answered by most pro EU people. You can't make a problem better by making it worse.