Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Oh god. Here we go.......
Lets see how well this goes down on here (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ricketts
- Start date
Oh god. Here we go.......
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So can you please explain why the veteran LGBT campaigner Peter Tatchell takes that view. It was his view I was expressing.
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
I would say her father is a twat.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Did the dad give all his sweets to one kid on Halloween in the hope that the trickle down effect would leave enough sweets for everyone?
Seriously this place is getting GMK.
Seriously this place is getting GMK.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Trust you to stick up for a man who believes rape victims are wrong to abort their rapists baby.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Only when they agree with you it seems, then they are insulted
Astute
Well-Known Member
I have quite a lot of friends who are gay. The wife always wanted a gay son who is very camp. But......
Although I am not religious I respect people who are religious. This can include not letting people sleep together who are not married. Being gay is against some religions. Then you have people sleeping under their roof.
I agree that if you open up a business you should accept all. Everyone should be respected. But religions should be respected. And so should freedom of speech.
Not clear cut to me. And some gay people agree. You have those who hide who they really are. But then you have some who are totally militant and only want to cause trouble to highlight anything that they don't agree with. Then you have the majority that just want to be left alone to have a normal life. They want to blend in. They are normal people so why not be treated as so?
Although I am not religious I respect people who are religious. This can include not letting people sleep together who are not married. Being gay is against some religions. Then you have people sleeping under their roof.
I agree that if you open up a business you should accept all. Everyone should be respected. But religions should be respected. And so should freedom of speech.
Not clear cut to me. And some gay people agree. You have those who hide who they really are. But then you have some who are totally militant and only want to cause trouble to highlight anything that they don't agree with. Then you have the majority that just want to be left alone to have a normal life. They want to blend in. They are normal people so why not be treated as so?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What is a militant gay person?
No I cannot. I expressed my view and didn’t sneak someone else‘s in.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I’m not I’m sticking up for the basics of democracy - freedom of speech and expression.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
QUOTE="Astute, post: 1421109, member: 2627"]I have quite a lot of friends who are gay. The wife always wanted a gay son who is very camp. But......
Although I am not religious I respect people who are religious. This can include not letting people sleep together who are not married. Being gay is against some religions. Then you have people sleeping under their roof.
I agree that if you open up a business you should accept all. Everyone should be respected. But religions should be respected. And so should freedom of speech.
Not clear cut to me. And some gay people agree. You have those who hide who they really are. But then you have some who are totally militant and only want to cause trouble to highlight anything that they don't agree with. Then you have the majority that just want to be left alone to have a normal life. They want to blend in. They are normal people so why not be treated as so?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I agree and I wouldn't discriminate against gay people in my business either as an example but I do agree with people expressing their wish based on their religion or whatever. If someone doesn't want to accept their business because of their sexuality let's say then it's surely their damn loss but allow them their opinion.
Although I am not religious I respect people who are religious. This can include not letting people sleep together who are not married. Being gay is against some religions. Then you have people sleeping under their roof.
I agree that if you open up a business you should accept all. Everyone should be respected. But religions should be respected. And so should freedom of speech.
Not clear cut to me. And some gay people agree. You have those who hide who they really are. But then you have some who are totally militant and only want to cause trouble to highlight anything that they don't agree with. Then you have the majority that just want to be left alone to have a normal life. They want to blend in. They are normal people so why not be treated as so?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I agree and I wouldn't discriminate against gay people in my business either as an example but I do agree with people expressing their wish based on their religion or whatever. If someone doesn't want to accept their business because of their sexuality let's say then it's surely their damn loss but allow them their opinion.
Nice stories, but not really militants.
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
like Millie Tant from Viz, only homosexual
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
How are they militant?? People trying to be seen as equal within society?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Hahaha you regularly insult those who happen to disagree with you. It's funny that I haven't seen you doing the same for other groups of people apart from rich narrow minded toffs. Weird that.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You tell them they are not militant then. It is how some described themselves.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Part of the link
Back home in New York in '75, I joined the militant Gay Activists Alliance, no longer in its heyday but still a force. You could walk in and have a say. They even used Robert's Rules of Order. All the groups operated democratically. No one was getting paid. It was all people power.
Yeah I agree and I wouldn't discriminate against gay people in my business either as an example but I do agree with people expressing their wish based on their religion or whatever. If someone doesn't want to accept their business because of their sexuality let's say then it's surely their damn loss but allow them their opinion.[/QUOTE]
You think businesses should choose who they serve is the same as allowing people to have opinions? What if you don’t like „blacks“ or Muslims? Just turn them away? What if a company doesn’t like your face? In their opinion you are not worth serving?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You think businesses should choose who they serve is the same as allowing people to have opinions? What if you don’t like „blacks“ or Muslims? Just turn them away? What if a company doesn’t like your face? In their opinion you are not worth serving?[/QUOTE]
Is that what I said though?
I said I respect religious beliefs although not religious myself.
KOK said similar but in a different way. He said nothing about racism. So where did this diatribe come from?
My point was that we have to respect peoples religion and beliefs. Even if we don't agree with them. I also said that they shouldn't go into business in something that would cause conflict. How about where religious beliefs state that people don't sleep together if not married? Can they stop heterosexual couples but not homosexual couples?
As I said it isn't a clear cut problem.
Is that what I said though?
I said I respect religious beliefs although not religious myself.
KOK said similar but in a different way. He said nothing about racism. So where did this diatribe come from?
My point was that we have to respect peoples religion and beliefs. Even if we don't agree with them. I also said that they shouldn't go into business in something that would cause conflict. How about where religious beliefs state that people don't sleep together if not married? Can they stop heterosexual couples but not homosexual couples?
As I said it isn't a clear cut problem.[/QUOTE]
It is clear cut. You can have your opinions, but if you’re in business you can’t pick and choose your clients based on your views on sex, religion colour or whatever. If you have this inflexible attitude don’t go into business.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Including people with religious beliefs?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
They shouldn't be free to discriminate against people based upon their beliefs.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Bang on mate.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So people with certain beliefs would be banned from freedom of expression in your world?
You are confusion discrimination with freedom of expression.
I suggest you read this article by the excellent Mr Tarchell
I’ve changed my mind on the gay cake row. Here’s why | Peter Tatchell
Astute
Well-Known Member
Hooray. You have got my point.
We shouldn't discriminate against people and how they lead their lives as ling as it doesn't harm others. We shouldn't discriminate against people's religious beliefs. This is the fine line I mentioned.
Should people have the right to keep to their religious beliefs in their own home?
It is debatable whichever way you look at it.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
If they're offering a service and then their beliefs are imposed upon others and lead to discrimination, that is wrong.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Would a B&B be able to stop a heterosexual unmarried couple from having a room in their own home if their religion doesn't agree with it?
As I have said they shouldn't be in the business. But it is debatable on religious grounds.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sadly in this article you’d be on the side of the absurd Fran Cowling and not the admirable Peter Tatchell.
Peter Tatchell: snubbed by students for free speech stance
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It is a difficult question but I am not comfortable with kind of discrimination. Should someone be able to refuse service based on the colour of their skin?
Otis
Well-Known Member
I quite like Peter Tatchell. Obviously flawed, (aren't we all) and I don't agree with some things he says, but I find him articulate and interesting.
For what it's worth I don't think cake shop should turn someone away because they are gay, but I do think they should be able to draw a line on what they are prepared to put on the cake. Otherwise is it okay to put 'F**k off you fat slag' or 'Happy Birthday you c**t?'
For what it's worth I don't think cake shop should turn someone away because they are gay, but I do think they should be able to draw a line on what they are prepared to put on the cake. Otherwise is it okay to put 'F**k off you fat slag' or 'Happy Birthday you c**t?'
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That was my point. If it’s ok to discriminate on religious grounds, then why can’t people discriminate based on their opinions of black people? Better to say no discrimination. Full stop.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You are bringing in racist comments into a totally different subject.
Are you surprised that Tatchell says similar to what I have been saying is a fine line?