If, as I just said, a Döner shop doesn’t sell alcohol to anyone at all, it is not discrimination and the owner is practicing his beliefs. But, if someone offers a service to heterosexuals, but not to gays, then it is discrimination.
Lets see how well this goes down on here (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ricketts
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If, as I just said, a Döner shop doesn’t sell alcohol to anyone at all, it is not discrimination and the owner is practicing his beliefs. But, if someone offers a service to heterosexuals, but not to gays, then it is discrimination.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s not about what you want is it? So as long as your needs are satisfied screw everyone else.
you are just old old bigot basically.
So if a Jewish book seller refused to sell a homocaust denial book or a black poster company director refused to print a EDL poster (both legal publications) you’d deny the right of refusal?
You are s over the place. What you really mean is you define where discrimination exists, you decide what people can and can’t do - thank God (oh look) we have decent people like Tatchell standing against thought police Nazis like you.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You are arguing with yourself.
I said that there shouldn't be any type of discrimination.
But what happens each time two minorities have a disagreement because their opinions are so far apart?
Do we ask Mart which way it should go?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The B and B owners weren’t prosecuted for being anti homosexual
Astute
Well-Known Member
You need to learn about religion. Even if like me you don't believe in it at all.
If all B and Bs are not allowed to discriminate against gays, how come religious people see themselves as victims?
Didn’t say that. Just said if you offer a service it should be the same for everyone.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So you offer a book publishing service and your a practicing Jew whose parents died in the holocaust they’d have to publish a book from a holocaust denier?
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
when don't we? I'm one of the worse culprits!
Otis
Well-Known Member
As with most things in life, CVD, it's not just black and white and I sit here thinking there is a degree of sense in both sides of the argument.
Well no because publishers can reject books and don’t have to give a reason. You may mean a printer, but I suspect you could justify that as it is a specific situation. David Irving has had problems finding publishers. Partly because of the negative image caused by printing his works. Holocaust denying is also illegal in some countries.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You said and I quote
“If someone offers a service it should be the same for everyone”
You now say things can be justified for a “specific situation”
Can you explain what that means?
Astute
Well-Known Member
This has brought a smile to my face.
I have said all the way through this that there should be no discrimination. If two gay people want to share a bed in a B&B they should be able to. I also said that people of any religion where their religion disagrees with this should really do something else.
What I have also said is that it is discrimination against someones religion if they are forced to go against what their religion preaches.
Then we have Otis that says he can see both sides. Spot on Otis. And Mart agrees with him.
So why are you arguing the toss with me Mart?
Yes. It is not discriminating against a certain group of people, but refusing a service to a person specifically because he is in effect insulting your family. That is different to a general discrimination against non Jewish people. Unless you are saying holocaust deniers have a right to be published by the victims of the holocaust families?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Homosexuality is also illegal in some countries.
So what you are saying is discrimination is allowed but not when against certain minorities?
Because some people use their religion to discriminate and don’t like it when they are shown to be wrong. Then claim to be victims.
Being forced to treat customers as equals is not a form of discrimination. It says a lot about their religion.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So a Catholic could legitimately argue that a non married couple in the eyes of their Family - I.e. God is an insult in the eyes of their family.
Notwithstanding the fact you have already back peddled that “services should be available to everyone” and now seem to say well it’s ok as long as it’s not offending someone’s beliefs. You should represent the B and B owners in court.
Are you calling holocaust deniers a minority that needs protection from being discriminated against?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Who were the B and B owners discriminating against again?
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what you are saying is that Peter Tatchell is wrong and you are right?
And here was me thinking Tatchell had done more for gay rights than anyone else by miles in this country. You should come over here and tell him how wrong he is.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that religion and people with religious beliefs don't need protection from being discriminated against?
Ok. I think catholic B and B owners should take unmarried couples. But I don’t think Jews should take holocaust deniers. I don’t think B and B owners should take armed robbers either, but you will no doubt say I am justifying discrimination by saying that.
Otis
Well-Known Member
And should we discriminate against the discriminators?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think I think I think. That’s your argument in a nutshell. What you think is morally and ethically acceptable should apply to everyone else. That’s it isn’t it?
No. I serve Christians and some Muslims in my pub and don’t believe they should be discriminated against. I would hope the law would punish me if I refused them service on religious grounds. I would expect them to be punished for refusing service in their businesses based on religious grounds.
I have an opinion- that is I think. The law will decide. If the law is against discrimination, then that fits in with my opinion.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why would you refuse to serve them? What religion are you and how is serving them interfering with your religion?
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
In the sense that I would ignore a business that discriminated against certain groups, then yes
I wouldn’t refuse them because I don’t worship invisible beings. The question of refusing people because of religious beliefs or sexual preferences based on my religion doesn’t arise.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That’s because as far as religion goes you are a bigot.
I employ temporary staff on events and in the work contract they have the right to complain about forms of discrimination. This is an EU requirement written into German employment laws. If I discriminated on religious grounds I would be in trouble. This is what actually happened with the catholic church when employing staff ( not priests, but e.g. gardeners or maintenance staff ). They cannot just employ Catholics.
I am a bigot because I am a non believer? Or because I don’t discriminate?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Because you are intolerant of views that do not fit your own. You use the word “discriminate” as a shield to support your own views.
You are prepared to ignore views based off clear beliefs and yet consider yourself non-discremenatory because those beliefs are not sacred to you. That, in the end, is just discrimination.