The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (49 Viewers)

[mrtrench]

We want our Brexit cash boost - NHS boss

What’s the chances of this happening?

What are the chances of increased spending on the NHS at some time in the future after the UK has left the EU? Pretty much close to 100% I'd say.
Remember that we are presently in a state of austerity. As growth gathers pace; as the deficit continues to fall; as we no longer have to send £££s to Brussels it's inevitable that at some stage spending will increase.

 

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[Astute]

We want our Brexit cash boost - NHS boss

What’s the chances of this happening?

None for years.

How many years will it be before the amount that it costs us to leave will have been covered by the amount we would normally of handed to the EU?

 

[skybluetony176]

None for years.

How many years will it be before the amount that it costs us to leave will have been covered by the amount we would normally of handed to the EU?

Surely that cost will be offset by all the excellent trade deals that the country will be prospering on after we leave the EU?

 

[skybluetony176]

What are the chances of increased spending on the NHS at some time in the future after the UK has left the EU? Pretty much close to 100% I'd say.
Remember that we are presently in a state of austerity. As growth gathers pace; as the deficit continues to fall; as we no longer have to send £££s to Brussels it's inevitable that at some stage spending will increase.

Spending on the NHS always goes up regardless of being in the EU or not. The issue is that in real terms it never goes up enough and therefore is as good as a reduction. So to say it will go up after we leave the EU isn’t a prediction it’s a given. The question is will it go up by the incremental amounts we’ve become accustomed to or will it receive a real shot in the arm of £350M a day as per the brexit promise to make the tangible change required to the NHS budget that allows the NHS to operate how we all expect it to?

 

[Astute]

Surely that cost will be offset by all the excellent trade deals that the country will be prospering on after we leave the EU?

Here we go again.

We don't know what sort of deals we will get with EU countries. We don't know what sort of deals we will get with non EU countries.

But we do a lot more trade outside the EU than in it. It isn't as though we will be starting from nothing. Many will want trade deals. We are not allowed them until we leave the EU. And the UK will be able to make deals with the rest of the world a lot easier than the EU can as they will need all 27 countries to agree.

And there is the proof that I am not biased. I make a comment that is against us leaving being good or easy. Someone jumps straight onto it and comes out with the same old shit we have covered countless times.

Well done Tony.

 

[Astute]

Spending on the NHS always goes up regardless of being in the EU or not. The issue is that in real terms it never goes up enough and therefore is as good as a reduction. So to say it will go up after we leave the EU isn’t a prediction it’s a given. The question is will it go up by the incremental amounts we’ve become accustomed to or will it receive a real shot in the arm of £350M a day as per the brexit promise to make the tangible change required to the NHS budget that allows the NHS to operate how we all expect it to?

Same old shit different day.

 

[mrtrench]

Tone, I'm not replying to you because it's pointless, not because I think you are right. My original point was to point out the absurdity of your inference that spending on the nhs would not increase. You have accepted the point.

 

[skybluetony176]

Here we go again.

We don't know what sort of deals we will get with EU countries. We don't know what sort of deals we will get with non EU countries.

But we do a lot more trade outside the EU than in it. It isn't as though we will be starting from nothing. Many will want trade deals. We are not allowed them until we leave the EU. And the UK will be able to make deals with the rest of the world a lot easier than the EU can as they will need all 27 countries to agree.

And there is the proof that I am not biased. I make a comment that is against us leaving being good or easy. Someone jumps straight onto it and comes out with the same old shit we have covered countless times.

Well done Tony.

So you’re saying that the brexit campaign lied about our excellent trade opportunities as well as the NHS windfall. I get ya.

 

[Astute]

So you’re saying that the brexit campaign lied about our excellent trade opportunities as well as the NHS windfall. I get ya.

Same old shit different day.

 

[skybluetony176]

Tone, I'm not replying to you because it's pointless, not because I think you are right. My original point was to point out the absurdity of your inference that spending on the nhs would not increase. You have accepted the point.

Which ignores the points being made by Simon Stevens. Perhaps we should just give the brexit campaign a free pass on the claim that was very much at the forefront of their campaign. Seems that the head of the NHS isn’t going to give him that free pass. Why should we? Whether you voted leave or remain?

 

[Kingokings204]

Which ignores the points being made by Simon Stevens. Perhaps we should just give the brexit campaign a free pass on the claim that was very much at the forefront of their campaign. Seems that the head of the NHS isn’t going to give him that free pass. Why should we? Whether you voted leave or remain?

No one is giving leave a free pass including leavers but you are so set on this country failing and praying the nhs doesn't get its money so we can all say you were right. We all hope the nhs gets more money of course we do.

We have been told we won't be leaving the EU properly until 2021 at it's current stage. Could be longer of course so we are going to have a wait a bit of time for our answers.

 

[Astute]

Which ignores the points being made by Simon Stevens. Perhaps we should just give the brexit campaign a free pass on the claim that was very much at the forefront of their campaign. Seems that the head of the NHS isn’t going to give him that free pass. Why should we? Whether you voted leave or remain?

OK lets humour you.

So where is this money supposed to come from when we have what looks like years of 'contributions' to make to the EU that the brexiteers didn't either consider or mention to us?

You ignored it less than an hour ago preferring your normal rants that you have been making for over a year. Can't you see that it could be a new rant for you?

 

[skybluetony176]

No one is giving leave a free pass including leavers but you are so set on this country failing and praying the nhs doesn't get its money so we can all say you were right. We all hope the nhs gets more money of course we do.

We have been told we won't be leaving the EU properly until 2021 at it's current stage. Could be longer of course so we are going to have a wait a bit of time for our answers.

I’m not praying anything. I’m just not ignoring the point being raised by Simon Stevens.

 

[mrtrench]

NHS Boss in request for more money for NHS shocker. In other news, Pope wants more people to become Catholics and Mrs. May wants people to vote Conservative.

 

[skybluetony176]

OK lets humour you.

So where is this money supposed to come from when we have what looks like years of 'contributions' to make to the EU that the brexiteers didn't either consider or mention to us?

You ignored it less than an hour ago preferring your normal rants that you have been making for over a year. Can't you see that it could be a new rant for you?

For once I agree with you. Brexiteers didn’t consider it. They didn’t consider that it was a gross figure quoted, they didn’t consider that the gross figure was wrong by about £10M as its actually more like £360M, they didn’t consider the rebate that we never pay meaning that the nett figure which is actually something like £270M so we were never sending the incorrect £350M to the EU in the first place, they never considered the money that comes back to the UK in subsidies, grants and projects etc. and they certainly never considered the divorce bill. They also never considered that two of the leading lights behind the slogan want the NHS privatised or pay at point of use.

I also didn’t raise the point. Simon Stevens did. I just raised awareness on here about it as it seems to have gone largely ignored. Conveniently.

Seems to be a difficult question to answer for some. Lots of excuses why it won’t happen in the short term, no reasoning why it will happen long term.

 

[skybluetony176]

NHS Boss in request for more money for NHS shocker. In other news, Pope wants more people to become Catholics and Mrs. May wants people to vote Conservative.

Did we had a referendum promise of more people becoming catholic? Clearly more people don’t want to vote conservative going by the general election results but I don’t remember that being a remain promise either so I’m not sure what the relevance of your point is.

 

[Astute]

For once I agree with you. Brexiteers didn’t consider it. They didn’t consider that it was a gross figure quoted, they didn’t consider that the gross figure was wrong by about £10M as its actually more like £360M, they didn’t consider the rebate that we never pay meaning that the nett figure which is actually something like £270M so we were never sending the incorrect £350M to the EU in the first place, they never considered the money that comes back to the UK in subsidies, grants and projects etc. and they certainly never considered the divorce bill. They also never considered that two of the leading lights behind the slogan want the NHS privatised or pay at point of use.

I also didn’t raise the point. Simon Stevens did. I just raised awareness on here about it as it seems to have gone largely ignored. Conveniently.

Seems to be a difficult question to answer for some. Lots of excuses why it won’t happen in the short term, no reasoning why it will happen long term.

So who is Simon Stevens?

Nobody knows what will happen short or long term. But there seems to be a few on here that knows.

 

[Astute]

Did we had a referendum promise of more people becoming catholic? Clearly more people don’t want to vote conservative going by the general election results but I don’t remember that being a remain promise either so I’m not sure what the relevance of your point is.

The relevance is you remember every exit bullshit but forget every remain bullshit.

 

[Grendel]

Did we had a referendum promise of more people becoming catholic? Clearly more people don’t want to vote conservative going by the general election results but I don’t remember that being a remain promise either so I’m not sure what the relevance of your point is.

Hello Tony. “More people don’t want to vote Conservative” two million more did than 2015 Tony.

 

[Kingokings204]

Hello Tony. “More people don’t want to vote Conservative” two million more did than 2015 Tony.

And apparently we ignore facts.

He is quoting the same nhs boss who demands more money every year regardless and is using brexit as his argument.

I guess if he gets more money it will be put firmly in the "despite brexit" news section just how we have the lowest rate of unemployement "despite brexit" and highest rate of the FTSE market for a long time "despite brexit"

 

[mrtrench]

Sorry you didn't understand the point Tone, fortunately others did and have explained

 

[skybluetony176]

The relevance is you remember every exit bullshit but forget every remain bullshit.

You’re right. I don’t remember remain claiming that that more people would become catholic or vote conservative either. When did they claim that? Do you have a link? I’d love to read all about that.

 

[Astute]

So what are you accusing me of saying this time Tone?

What I have said is you are coming out with the same shite as a year ago. You come out with what has been said by others as the truth when nobody knows what will happen.

Why don't you try looking with your own eyes on what is going on? You will see both good and bad about Brexit. Your problem is you only want to see bad.

 

[skybluetony176]

And apparently we ignore facts.

He is quoting the same nhs boss who demands more money every year regardless and is using brexit as his argument.

I guess if he gets more money it will be put firmly in the "despite brexit" news section just how we have the lowest rate of unemployement "despite brexit" and highest rate of the FTSE market for a long time "despite brexit"

If the NHS gets a huge shot in the arm because of brexit great. I don’t have a problem with admitting I’m wrong in assuming it won’t happen. In fact as someone who’s extremely frustrated by the the lack of investment in the NHS I’d be happy, very happy to admit I got it wrong should that happen.

We have record low rates of unemployment despite free movement of people from within the EU. Not sure if you’re arguing for or against brexit their?

The FTSE especially the 100 is made up largely of companies that trade internationally, because the pound crashed of the brexit vote the profit of international payments went up overnight so of course the FTSE has to reflect this. It’s mostly a reaction to the pound crashing inflating profits.

Funny how everything positive is an immediate effect of brexit yet anything that is negative is nothing to do with brexit because we haven’t left yet and even when we do it will still be nothing to do with brexit because we’ll be paying the divorce bill. I think that’s called having your cake and eating it.

 

[skybluetony176]

Sorry you didn't understand the point Tone, fortunately others did and have explained

I understand the point. It’s just completely irrelevant to brexit whereas the NHS receiving money is relevant and central to the brexit campaign.

 

[Kingokings204]

If the NHS gets a huge shot in the arm because of brexit great. I don’t have a problem with admitting I’m wrong in assuming it won’t happen. In fact as someone who’s extremely frustrated by the the lack of investment in the NHS I’d be happy, very happy to admit I got it wrong should that happen.

We have record low rates of unemployment despite free movement of people from within the EU. Not sure if you’re arguing for or against brexit their?

The FTSE especially the 100 is made up largely of companies that trade internationally, because the pound crashed of the brexit vote the profit of international payments went up overnight so of course the FTSE has to reflect this. It’s mostly a reaction to the pound crashing inflating profits.

Funny how everything positive is an immediate effect of brexit yet anything that is negative is nothing to do with brexit because we haven’t left yet and even when we do it will still be nothing to do with brexit because we’ll be paying the divorce bill. I think that’s called having your cake and eating it.

You still sound so bitter about losing the referendum that your bias is all to see. We all have an opinion on whether remain or leave but you just sound like a sore loser and no one likes a sore loser.

You would never admit brexit gave the nhs more money so why pretend like you would praise and acknowledge it and "you got it wrong"

I gave you a couple of hard facts since brexit of positive news and you turned them into complete negatives to suit your view so don't try and convince us you will admit you were wrong about brexit.

 

[clint van damme]

You still sound so bitter about losing the referendum that your bias is all to see. We all have an opinion on whether remain or leave but you just sound like a sore loser and no one likes a sore loser.

You would never admit brexit gave the nhs more money so why pretend like you would praise and acknowledge it and "you got it wrong"

I gave you a couple of hard facts since brexit of positive news and you turned them into complete negatives to suit your view so don't try and convince us you will admit you were wrong about brexit.

Brexit hasn't given the NHS more money yet, (I doubt it will). Even Jeremy Hunt admittedyesterday that the big red bus was absolute bullshit and tried to blame it on the leave campaign. Trouble is two tory ministers were stood in front of it.

And what hard facts of good news did you give us? I can't remember any, I may be wrong. I did ask for someone to post some but didn't get a reply.
The only positive piece I can remember was linked by me and it was from a UKIP economist but I couldn't find much else.
There's even starting to be negative Brexit stories and the right wing press.

I did read at the weekend that a deal has been agreed and a divorce bill of 53 billion. Personally I think that would be far preferable to a no deal.

 

[skybluetony176]

You still sound so bitter about losing the referendum that your bias is all to see. We all have an opinion on whether remain or leave but you just sound like a sore loser and no one likes a sore loser.

You would never admit brexit gave the nhs more money so why pretend like you would praise and acknowledge it and "you got it wrong"

I gave you a couple of hard facts since brexit of positive news and you turned them into complete negatives to suit your view so don't try and convince us you will admit you were wrong about brexit.

Bitter? No. I very much see the free movement of people as a benefit not a negative, you’re the one who brought up employment records, I’ve just pointed out that is why we’re enjoying free movement of people within the EU, something that’s very much been portrayed as a negative to EU membership. I’m just pointing out that it hasn’t had a negative effect on employment. If I was being negative I’d be asking you who’s going to fill these positions when we “take back control” of our borders (except the only land border of course) and limit the number of EU immigrants into the UK thus limiting the amount of jobs that can be filled? What effect will that have on the productivity of the country? What effect will that have the economy?

I’m afraid that the FTSE and the effect that the pound crashing has had on it is a fact, there’s been plenty of well published articles by well respected financial journalist who understand this much more than I ever could. You really wouldn’t have to look too hard to get the facts on this, don’t take my word for it go and find some facts for yourself. It is what it is, I haven’t turned it into anything unlike you trying to turn it into a positive of brexit.

 

[Kingokings204]

Brexit hasn't given the NHS more money yet, (I doubt it will). Even Jeremy Hunt admittedyesterday that the big red bus was absolute bullshit and tried to blame it on the leave campaign. Trouble is two tory ministers were stood in front of it.

And what hard facts of good news did you give us? I can't remember any, I may be wrong. I did ask for someone to post some but didn't get a reply.
The only positive piece I can remember was linked by me and it was from a UKIP economist but I couldn't find much else.
There's even starting to be negative Brexit stories and the right wing press.

I did read at the weekend that a deal has been agreed and a divorce bill of 53 billion. Personally I think that would be far preferable to a no deal.

No has said the big red bus wasn't bullshit. It was it should of been a net figure which couldn't of been argued. Let's not pretend this was just via the one side? That's the point Astute and I and others make.

As for positives I gave 2 hard facts and you said I gave none and completely ignored them. Tony turned my two hard fact positives into massive negatives when they aren't but it suited his agenda. I think you will forgive me if I don't list anymore for the want of wasting my breath.

 

[skybluetony176]

Brexit hasn't given the NHS more money yet, (I doubt it will). Even Jeremy Hunt admittedyesterday that the big red bus was absolute bullshit and tried to blame it on the leave campaign. Trouble is two tory ministers were stood in front of it.

And what hard facts of good news did you give us? I can't remember any, I may be wrong. I did ask for someone to post some but didn't get a reply.
The only positive piece I can remember was linked by me and it was from a UKIP economist but I couldn't find much else.
There's even starting to be negative Brexit stories and the right wing press.

I did read at the weekend that a deal has been agreed and a divorce bill of 53 billion. Personally I think that would be far preferable to a no deal.

Oranges will be cheaper and we can sell more pigs ears to China are two positives to be fair. The only other positive anyone has been able to explain to me is regaining control of our fishing policies, which I’m actually 100% behind as the EU fishing policy can only be described as mental to the extreme. That’s assuming that we don’t just adopt and stick to the EU policy or adopt an even more mental one.

 

[Kingokings204]

Bitter? No. I very much see the free movement of people as a benefit not a negative, you’re the one who brought up employment records, I’ve just pointed out that is why we’re enjoying free movement of people within the EU, something that’s very much been portrayed as a negative to EU membership. I’m just pointing out that it hasn’t had a negative effect on employment. If I was being negative I’d be asking you who’s going to fill these positions when we “take back control” of our borders (except the only land border of course) and limit the number of EU immigrants into the UK thus limiting the amount of jobs that can be filled? What effect will that have on the productivity of the country? What effect will that have the economy?

I’m afraid that the FTSE and the effect that the pound crashing has had on it is a fact, there’s been plenty of well published articles by well respected financial journalist who understand this much more than I ever could. You really wouldn’t have to look too hard to get the facts on this, don’t take my word for it go and find some facts for yourself. It is what it is, I haven’t turned it into anything unlike you trying to turn it into a positive of brexit.

Simply laughable. You've completely ignored my post in its entirety and to quote Astute you have them completely ranted about something different to change the subject. Both facts I gave are because we haven't left the EU effectively is what you're saying. You are firmly in the "despite brexit" camp. You will never admit you're wrong. Again it's wasting my breath I'm sad to say. Bitter? I'm afraid so.

 

[clint van damme]

No has said the big red bus wasn't bullshit. It was it should of been a net figure which couldn't of been argued. Let's not pretend this was just via the one side? That's the point Astute and I and others make.

As for positives I gave 2 hard facts and you said I gave none and completely ignored them. Tony turned my two hard fact positives into massive negatives when they aren't but it suited his agenda. I think you will forgive me if I don't list anymore for the want of wasting my breath.

no I didn't I said, " I can't remember any, I may be wrong". Not quite the same as saying you gave none is it?

 

[Kingokings204]

no I didn't I said, " I can't remember any, I may be wrong". Not quite the same as saying you gave none is it?

Ok fair enough. I shall try again then

1. unemployment is at an all time low.

2. Ftse market is the highest it's been for years making Britain more investable.

Bonus positive

3. Many top global businesses here in the U.K. Have announced either increased growth or jobs forecasts including jaguar Land Rover, Siemens and even my friend Bloomberg and his new HQ in London who wants to over double his staff.

 

[Astute]

I’m afraid that the FTSE and the effect that the pound crashing has had on it is a fact, there’s been plenty of well published articles by well respected financial journalist who understand this much more than I.

Most people understand it better than you.

So it is a fact that things said by the same people that got the 2008 crash wrong and got what would happen if the UK voted to leave the EU wrong will be right this time?

 

[clint van damme]

Ok fair enough. I shall try again then

1. unemployment is at an all time low.

2. Ftse market is the highest it's been for years making Britain more investable.

Bonus positive

3. Many top global businesses here in the U.K. Have announced either increased growth or jobs forecasts including jaguar Land Rover, Siemens and even my friend Bloomberg and his new HQ in London who wants to over double his staff.

number 1 is debatable:
Unemployment in the UK is now so low it's in danger of exposing the lie used to create the numbers