The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (34 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Just looking at some figures on line and the second largest demographic of immigrants into the UK is from India. That’s India who want easing of immigration rules between the UK and India as part of any post brexit trade deal. Seems leaving the EU is going to make us more vulnerable to immigration from at least one third world country. I wonder if it will reach the levels of mass immigration?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
MPs just voted 'that animals cannot feel pain or emotions'
It makes you proud to be British! God Save The Queen. BREXIT BREXIT BREXIT!
It makes you proud to be British! God Save The Queen. BREXIT BREXIT BREXIT!
I think most people in the country agree that controlled immigration is good for the country. What isn't is uncontrolled i.e. Not being able to decide who comes into the country and how many.
Housing is a major issue currently. If only 250k of new houses are being built every year and we have a similar number in net migration it doesn't take Einstein to work out that the situation won't improve quickly.
We all know a high number of under 30s voted remain, the same demographic that are struggling to get on the housing ladder due to a shortage of property leading to high prices.
I hear the same challenges/contradictions constantly from people arguing for remain (or in other words continued uncontrolled immigration - I appreciate that we also have a large number of non EU migrants but we do have a choice/control to some extent over this) People complaining about Depressed/low wages, public services being stretched etc etc. These arent all the nasty tory party's fault or capitalism gone wrong. These issues will have no doubt been impacted to some extent by large numbers of net migration.
Difficult choices have to be made in life as we don't live in a utopian society. We either accept the impacts good and bad or do something about it.
I've have also never understood how people find it acceptable why someone from the EU (whether they have skills we require or not) should a better chance of living and working here than a potentially highly skilled Australian, American or African ?
I've said it to numerous people (friend and relatives) over the past year or two, the EU only had to make one consession to ensure a remain win (possibly by landslide) - provide an element of control over immigration. Even if they agreed X tens of thousands per year could have total freedom of movement. Then it's limited to the country's capacity to absorb higher numbers or fill the right skill sets - the same as migrants from non EU countries
Unfortunately the arrogance and stubbornness of the EU (and No doubt partly due to Cameron's pathetic attempts to negotiate) led to this mess of a situation which isn't what most people (in the UK or EU) actually want.
Housing is a major issue currently. If only 250k of new houses are being built every year and we have a similar number in net migration it doesn't take Einstein to work out that the situation won't improve quickly.
We all know a high number of under 30s voted remain, the same demographic that are struggling to get on the housing ladder due to a shortage of property leading to high prices.
I hear the same challenges/contradictions constantly from people arguing for remain (or in other words continued uncontrolled immigration - I appreciate that we also have a large number of non EU migrants but we do have a choice/control to some extent over this) People complaining about Depressed/low wages, public services being stretched etc etc. These arent all the nasty tory party's fault or capitalism gone wrong. These issues will have no doubt been impacted to some extent by large numbers of net migration.
Difficult choices have to be made in life as we don't live in a utopian society. We either accept the impacts good and bad or do something about it.
I've have also never understood how people find it acceptable why someone from the EU (whether they have skills we require or not) should a better chance of living and working here than a potentially highly skilled Australian, American or African ?
I've said it to numerous people (friend and relatives) over the past year or two, the EU only had to make one consession to ensure a remain win (possibly by landslide) - provide an element of control over immigration. Even if they agreed X tens of thousands per year could have total freedom of movement. Then it's limited to the country's capacity to absorb higher numbers or fill the right skill sets - the same as migrants from non EU countries
Unfortunately the arrogance and stubbornness of the EU (and No doubt partly due to Cameron's pathetic attempts to negotiate) led to this mess of a situation which isn't what most people (in the UK or EU) actually want.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Oddly one of the BoE monetary committee thinks leaving the EU will make that worse. Not sure I follow the logic in that.
Brexit: UK workers willing to accept lower wages as deadline to leave EU approaches, says Bank of England policymaker
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
...the UK continues to display plenty of arrogance and ignorance itself.
Why should the EU have changed the rules yet again for the UK? Most people seem to talk as though the leave vote was something of a landslide, when it was anything but.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Those happy about a decrease in wages are morons.
I've never suggested it was a landslide for Brexit. In fact my comment that one minor (in my view) consession could have made it a landslide for remain suggests the exact opposite
The EU as with any country needs to accept and address people's concerns and fears. If it's doesn't then there's only one way it will go. For example Junkers views for closer integration are not shared by a lot of the general public in the EU
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The issue with internal EU migration is very much a UK issue.
Well, we were previously told that Austria, France and Holland were about to follow Britain's lead, it doesn't look like is going to happen anytime soon.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And what is the biggest cause of lower wages? Oh yes. Over supply of labour. And that is exactly what you want.
Astute
Well-Known Member
In what way is it only a UK issue?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Stop insulting Britain, top German politician tells the EU | Daily Mail Online
Now tell us that Barnier isn't taking the piss.
That is why most people didn’t vote for Brexit. The ones who stayed at home could have voted for Brexit, but were not convinced of voting either way. Unfortunately for them, they allowed Brexit to happen and are as guilty of creating this mess as the Brexit voters. Brexodus is under way. Not only have we just lost two important agencies, but we will have to create U.K. agencies to replace them. Which means even more civil servants, these replacements paid for by UK tax payers.
Do we have any figures for the number of new civil service jobs created by Brexit? That would be interesting as it would have to be deducted from the net savings of not paying into the EU.
Henkel was in the AfD until 2015. He left because of Petry and her husband, but is still a supporter of some AfD views. He is not a leading politician in Germany, but a MEP.
How is there an over supply of labour? We have virtually brim full employment- There will never be 0,00% unemployment. People are between jobs, just out of school or university still looking for the right job, or maybe people don’t want to work. If we have such low unemployment, then there is an under supply of labour. The biggest cause of low wages is the type of jobs available and the power of large international employers against relatively unorganised labour.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes a German MEP saying that the EU is taking the piss.
Mr Henkel, an MEP and former head of the Federation of German Industries – the equivalent of the CBI – said its view was that Britain should have the ‘best deal possible’.
I suppose you know more than he does as usual as his view differs to your own.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So last week you took the piss out of the full employment quote. And quite rightly so. Now you use it to try and prove a point. How unusual
Mass migration lowers wages by £450 and ‘DOES NOT work for British people’
And here is one to test you
Jeremy Corbyn: “wholesale” EU immigration has destroyed conditions for British workers
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
So last week you took the piss out of the full employment quote. And quite rightly so. Now you use it to try and prove a point. How unusual
Mass migration lowers wages by £450 and ‘DOES NOT work for British people’
And here is one to test you
Jeremy Corbyn: “wholesale” EU immigration has destroyed conditions for British workers
You just JC should resign on another thread yet are now quoting him?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Other EU counties do not have an issue with internal EU migration. You seem to get easily confused over the difference between EU and non EU migration.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You love the EU.
You love Corbyn.
He wants out of the EU.
It is you that needs to work out where your loyalties are. But you can't come out with it. You can only bash the Tories and defend Labour.
Astute
Well-Known Member
We are the most affected by it. There are now so many more cars on the road that they are putting traffic lights on the M6. What a great idea. Our population is catching up with Germany. But you are happy about it. There are millions of homeless people. But you blame anyone other than EU rules. Yes I get you. We can't allow in the trades we need. But you don't mind. I would prefer those non EU immigrants with the skills we need over anyone from the EU that doesn't have the skills we need. You are against that. Then you moan about the hospital situation and blame anything but the EU rules. Yes I also get that.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Actually I'm neutral in this debate.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Germany's population is something like 13 million more.
You seem to blame the EU for most of the country's issues. Your hatred for it will no doubt continue well into the future and you will probably be blaming it in 10 years time.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Objective
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I'd say the keywords you want are migrants posing as refugees to be honest.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
That's disgraceful tbf. I just don't think politicians are on the same planet as normal folk.
So last week you took the piss out of the full employment quote. And quite rightly so. Now you use it to try and prove a point. How unusual
Mass migration lowers wages by £450 and ‘DOES NOT work for British people’
And here is one to test you
Jeremy Corbyn: “wholesale” EU immigration has destroyed conditions for British workers
The same foundation says that the labour market is tight, but wages are still not rising in line with inflation. It says that the recent British model has been one of „low skill, low pay“ jobs. Which is what I said.
Corbyn is contradictory and seems to mess up in this article.
Whatever... we have almost full employment- although through low skill, low paid jobs. You could blame migrants for that, but I wouldn’t.
I think employers are happy enough to employ people on low wages rather than improving productivity.
Anyway, you should be happy that the pesky migrants are going home. Soon the British will be working in jobs which 450,00 more.
Considering that Britain was top of the G7 countries for GDP, and the 6. biggest economy in the world whilst at the same time being destroyed by EU migrants, things can only get even better now that they are going home ;-)
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
on a thread where someone said he was glad a girl had been killed you save your outrage for animals? ( I do agree it's a disgrace).
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I really don't believe you have set foot out of your house in the last 20 years.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
When did I say I wasn't outraged by that? That is also truly terrible.
This is exactly why I am trying to put my arguments across. Stuff like that is only going to happen more and more. The problem is, people don't want to listen and usually just shout 'racist'.
Only difference to me is that the UK government should put their commitment in writing to pay what they owe - as far as we can assess at the moment. May has said we wil honour our commitments. But, who knows how long she will be around and what she thinks are our commitments.
Henkel is pretty extreme in his views on the EU, but he isn’t talking about leaving it. I don’t know more than he does, but I don’t agree on everything he says. I agree on some things though. E.g He doesn’t want the UK EU Parliament seats redistributed. He wants them not to be replaced. I agree on that.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But again they are people we have a legitimate reason not to allow entry to the country now so leaving the EU will make no difference.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There’s also the small matter of the minimum wage and living wage. Both of which are set by the British government. Nothing to do with the EU or immigrants. The government could address some of the issues surrounding low pay anytime they want but have chosen not to. They could quite easily link both to inflation but don’t. Maybe they’ll be an announcement in the budget later.
The German minimum wage is linked to average wage rises and raised every 2 years.