The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (80 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Farage is nothing to do with anything. But you like to bring him into asmuch as you can.

The point you keep missing is Abbott is seen as a joke from all sides. Yet she has a high up position in the Labour party. Corbyn is supposed to be our saviour. Yet he wants out of the EU.

If you only had a single view you would say this yourself. But it all depends on the point you want to make at the time.

you've just done exactly what I said you do with regard to deflecting from the tories. David Davis categorically said that two important agencies would not leave the UK.
One has announced it's going and the other makes it's decision this week but it seems they will be following yet not a word about that.

 

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[Astute]

you've just done exactly what I said you do with regard to deflecting from the tories. David Davis categorically said that two important agencies would not leave the UK.
One has announced it's going and the other makes it's decision this week but it seems they will be following yet not a word about that.

Would you like to explain how I tried to deflect anything?

What I have said is that I don't trust them. I have said nothing else.

 

[Kingokings204]

UK 'ready to pay more for Brexit'

Just close your eyes really hard and say Brexit is great over and over again and it will come true!

This most certainly is not another concession, the UK holds all of the cards! They need us more than we need them!!

You’re forgetting we have a very weak government and the only reason May is still there is to stop corbyn getting in.

We could have 4 aces but if you don’t know how to play them you will still lose.

 

[Sick Boy]

You’re forgetting we have a very weak government and the only reason May is still there is to stop corbyn getting in.

We could have 4 aces but if you don’t know how to play them you will still lose.

We have been repeatedly told that the EU is about to fall apart. If that's the case then it wouldn't be able to dictate everything to the UK, would it?

 

[Grendel]

We have been repeatedly told that the EU is about to fall apart. If that's the case then it wouldn't be able to dictate everything to the UK, would it?

In all honesty if they accept 40 billion that’s clearly the case. It’s only around 18 months of additional payments after the actual leaving date.

I’m sure Barnier will do his best Napoleon impression about how insulting the offer is.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is there any good news as it seems to be one thing after another today

The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit

European Banking Authority will move from London to Paris | Metro News


This thread is worth a read concerning issues around agencies like the EMA leaving

And an investigation in to Vote Leave financing has been opened.

The animals can’t feel pain is quite shocking. I’ve read a few articles on it now from various publications of different political leanings (for balance) and the government comes of as climate change denying flat earth types in every article.

The worrying thing is what is this a prequel to. Lifting bans on hunting? Major changes in farming practices reducing standards of animal welfare? It’s far from a positive move and worrying to say the least.

 

[Kingokings204]

We have been repeatedly told that the EU is about to fall apart. If that's the case then it wouldn't be able to dictate everything to the UK, would it?

Again you may forget but would agree how weak our government is and I think it is also. May needs to go for mine and someone needs to stand up to these bullies. It’s how you treat bullies in day to day life.

As for the EU I would say there is a strong argument they are no better. Germany can’t form a government, that’s big news because a right wing party has spoiled the apple cart. Catalonia policticians are being locked up. A billionaire trump style figure has just been elected in Czech Republic. Victor orban in Hungary is livid with migrant quotas and has told them where to go. Italy and burlesconi in Sicily was it just got 75% of the eurosceptic vote (correct me if wrong) macron is losing support and some of his team are now resigning and we know all about the far right in Austria lately. It’s pretty damning. The last thing we need to do is 40b and I haven’t seen one shred of evidence as to why it is 40b. It’s just a figure.

If a mechanic said your bill is 1200 quid but there is no itemization would you pay it?

 

[Astute]

You’re forgetting we have a very weak government and the only reason May is still there is to stop corbyn getting in.

We could have 4 aces but if you don’t know how to play them you will still lose.

Labour has as many jokers as aces.

 

[Astute]

We have been repeatedly told that the EU is about to fall apart. If that's the case then it wouldn't be able to dictate everything to the UK, would it?

So you can't see it all going wrong? Even Merkel is on dodgy ground. And she has led Germany in the right direction. The racist vote is going up. There is unrest in several EU countries. Countless billions are being lost to fraud each year. And the trough they feed from is getting too big.

And now for the bad news........

 

[chiefdave]

So you can't see it all going wrong? Even Merkel is on dodgy ground.

Another election in Germany can't be good news for the negotiations. Merkel will be concentrating on that. Even if its called today you'd think it would be the other side of Xmas so you're losing another couple of months.

 

[chiefdave]

Not strictly Brexit but an indication of our standing in the world currently. For the first time since it was formed in 1946 there will be no British judge on the International Court of Justice.

 

[Marty]

Just heard the 40billion figure, they're being completely unrealistic in their expectations now, I think we should just walk away.

 

[clint van damme]

Just heard the 40billion figure, they're being completely unrealistic in their expectations now, I think we should just walk away.

No one can say if it's unrealistic or not because none of us no the detail or what future pay outs we will get. It could be a great deal, it could be awful. None of us know.
Personally, even if it does prove to be on the high side, I think it will be money well spent if it stops us walking away with no deal.

What I did find strange was that the cabinet has apparently said they will back May but need to know exactly what we will get for 40 Billion. Well surely you would want a comprehensive break down whether it was 5 billion or 100 billion?

 

[Astute]

No one can say if it's unrealistic or not because none of us no the detail or what future pay outs we will get. It could be a great deal, it could be awful. None of us know.
Personally, even if it does prove to be on the high side, I think it will be money well spent if it stops us walking away with no deal.

What I did find strange was that the cabinet has apparently said they will back May but need to know exactly what we will get for 40 Billion. Well surely you would want a comprehensive break down whether it was 5 billion or 100 billion?

I thought we were supposed to pay whatever the EU wanted?

Numbers are not even being spoken about properly yet. Just what they want.us to pay for including loans not given out yet and improvements to infrastructures in other EU countries. This includes Italy where a massive amount each year is lost to fraud.

Some people need to make their minds up about how much the EU wants. If it is too much should we threaten to walk away without a deal? Or should we pay whatever even if it reaches 100 billion?

 

[clint van damme]

I thought we were supposed to pay whatever the EU wanted?

Numbers are not even being spoken about properly yet. Just what they want.us to pay for including loans not given out yet and improvements to infrastructures in other EU countries. This includes Italy where a massive amount each year is lost to fraud.

Some people need to make their minds up about how much the EU wants. If it is too much should we threaten to walk away without a deal? Or should we pay whatever even if it reaches 100 billion?

We don't know what we're paying for so it's pointless debating until it becomes clearer.
I think walking away without a deal will be disastrous for this country so I would do what I could to avoid it. Hopefully they will except this offer and things can start moving forward.

 

[Marty]

No one can say if it's unrealistic or not because none of us no the detail or what future pay outs we will get. It could be a great deal, it could be awful. None of us know.
Personally, even if it does prove to be on the high side, I think it will be money well spent if it stops us walking away with no deal.

What I did find strange was that the cabinet has apparently said they will back May but need to know exactly what we will get for 40 Billion. Well surely you would want a comprehensive break down whether it was 5 billion or 100 billion?

This is the problem, it's like walking in a car dealership and them turning round and saying £30k, the monetary figure at this moment is a complete waste of time and unless they're serious about negotiating a suitable deal for all we need to walk away to show we won't let them walk all over us. I agree with May, no deal is better then a bad deal.

 

[Astute]

We don't know what we're paying for so it's pointless debating until it becomes clearer.
I think walking away without a deal will be disastrous for this country so I would do what I could to avoid it. Hopefully they will except this offer and things can start moving forward.

There isn't anything we can offer on yet though. The negotiations are about what we are willing to pay for. The EU won't say how much it will be. That will come later. And there is the problem.

We could think it is 40 billion. All the negotiations seem to go well. Then at the end of it all they could say 100 billion.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Is there any good news as it seems to be one thing after another today

The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit

European Banking Authority will move from London to Paris | Metro News


This thread is worth a read concerning issues around agencies like the EMA leaving

And an investigation in to Vote Leave financing has been opened.

What about an investigation into vote Remain? Millions were pumped into propaganda leaflets. We were told there would be a recession. We were told the cuts would start on Friday. We were told by Obama we would go to the back of the queue. We were also told by the BBC it would be a disaster.

It's getting desperate now. No one says the leave campaign was perfect, but it's the same one or two things that keep cropping up. I could go on for days about how the remain campaign bullied and feared people into voting for it.

Enough is enough.

 

[skybluetony176]

What about an investigation into vote Remain? Millions were pumped into propaganda leaflets. We were told there would be a recession. We were told the cuts would start on Friday. We were told by Obama we would go to the back of the queue. We were also told by the BBC it would be a disaster.

It's getting desperate now. No one says the leave campaign was perfect, but it's the same one or two things that keep cropping up. I could go on for days about how the remain campaign bullied and feared people into voting for it.

Enough is enough.

Dave’s links have nothing to do with either campaign. Dave’s links are the reality of what’s happening since we voted leave.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

No doubt he'll get hounded for it, but Morrissey is absolutely right:

“I want Germany to be German. I want France to be French. If you try to make everything multicultural, you will not have any culture in the end."

I believe this factor being the case in Britain combined with Merkel's policy on migrants, they both helped swing the vote for leave.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not strictly Brexit but an indication of our standing in the world currently. For the first time since it was formed in 1946 there will be no British judge on the International Court of Justice.

Been replaced by an Indian judge I believe.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Dave’s links have nothing to do with either campaign. Dave’s links are the reality of what’s happening since we voted leave.

"The Electoral Commission has launched a new investigation into spending at the EU referendum by Vote Leave."

 

[chiefdave]

“I want Germany to be German. I want France to be French. If you try to make everything multicultural, you will not have any culture in the end."

Think there's some truth in that. Obviously you'd wouldn't have no culture at all you'd have everything mixed in together indistinguishable from each other. The trick is to get the balance right. You want multiculturalism to gain the benefits of those outside influences but you don't want to tip over in to that dominating everything.

Seems to be something we struggle with in this country but I don't think that's particularly related to the EU, other EU countries seem to be able to maintain their identity. Part of the problem here is things like the hijacking of our flag as a right wing symbol.

 

[skybluetony176]

No doubt he'll get hounded for it, but Morrissey is absolutely right:

“I want Germany to be German. I want France to be French. If you try to make everything multicultural, you will not have any culture in the end."

I believe this factor being the case in Britain combined with Merkel's policy on migrants, they both helped swing the vote for leave.

We best all stop drinking tea from Asia, eating chips from Belgium in fact we better stop eating potatoes full stop. Bloody foreign vegetables coming over here stealing the turnips job.

Have you any idea how much of Britain’s historical culture is based on foreign influence? It works both ways as well, Britain has had huge influence on cultures around the world. When I went to Sri Lanka many moons ago everything in the hotel stopped for elevens every day tea and sponge cake for all, guests and staff. That’s a British tradition that’s long died out at home but continues in former British empires.

Cultures blending isn’t a new phenomenon caused by the arrival of the EU. It’s been happening for centuries. In fact you could say it’s traditional.

 

[chiefdave]

"The Electoral Commission has launched a new investigation into spending at the EU referendum by Vote Leave."

If you read the link they are looking at very specific things for which they say evidence has come to light. Seems to be focused on 3 organisations not declaring spending correctly which could mean the Leave campaign spent more than was allowed under the European Union Referendum Act.

I would expect them to investigate that and I would expect the same if there was evidence of similar from Vote Remain.

 

[Captain Dart]

If you read the link they are looking at very specific things for which they say evidence has come to light. Seems to be focused on 3 organisations not declaring spending correctly which could mean the Leave campaign spent more than was allowed under the European Union Referendum Act.

I would expect them to investigate that and I would expect the same if there was evidence of similar from Vote Remain.

They are investigating both sides but for some reason only one side was reported in the headlines.
Besides the Government leafleted everyone to promote the remain platform and that huge figure didn't count before the referendum, that is the biggest scandal.
EU referendum: £9m cost of taxpayer-funded leaflet warning about the 'damage' of Brexit angers Eurosceptics

 

[chiefdave]

They are investigating both sides but for some reason only one side was reported in the headlines.

Doesn't seem to be any details on the Electoral Commission site about an investigation into remain. There was the initial investigation following both side filing their returns, as with any election, but there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate further action against remain.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

We best all stop drinking tea from Asia, eating chips from Belgium in fact we better stop eating potatoes full stop. Bloody foreign vegetables coming over here stealing the turnips job.

Have you any idea how much of Britain’s historical culture is based on foreign influence? It works both ways as well, Britain has had huge influence on cultures around the world. When I went to Sri Lanka many moons ago everything in the hotel stopped for elevens every day tea and sponge cake for all, guests and staff. That’s a British tradition that’s long died out at home but continues in former British empires.

Cultures blending isn’t a new phenomenon caused by the arrival of the EU. It’s been happening for centuries. In fact you could say it’s traditional.

You're using cliches to try and make a nothing point really.

Of course every culture came from somewhere, but we are now established as pretty individual. That's what has made Europe so great. The EU is actually doing its best to spoil that, as are many political parties across Europe individually. The Swedish liberal party have now announced that they will work towards making the EU a federation of states. In other words get rid of nation states.

As Dave says, you need to have a balance. We're not seeing that anymore. Britain was first, now we are seeing it in France, Germany, Sweden etc.

I respect the individuality of different cultures. Multiculturalism ruins that.

 

[Captain Dart]

Doesn't seem to be any details on the Electoral Commission site about an investigation into remain. There was the initial investigation following both side filing their returns, as with any election, but there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate further action against remain.

There is but you have to look real hard, it is biased reporting.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

If you read the link they are looking at very specific things for which they say evidence has come to light. Seems to be focused on 3 organisations not declaring spending correctly which could mean the Leave campaign spent more than was allowed under the European Union Referendum Act.

I would expect them to investigate that and I would expect the same if there was evidence of similar from Vote Remain.

Sure, but do you think the Remain campaign would actually ever get investigated? It feels like a pretty one way street to me, because there is no way that was clean either.

 

[chiefdave]

There is but you have to look real hard, it is biased reporting.

Be quicker if you just put up a link so we could all take a look.

 

[Grendel]

Be quicker if you just put up a link so we could all take a look.

Both are being investigated - The FT confirmed this in article - the link will not work.

 

[skybluetony176]

You're using cliches to try and make a nothing point really.

Of course every culture came from somewhere, but we are now established as pretty individual. That's what has made Europe so great. The EU is actually doing its best to spoil that, as are many political parties across Europe individually. The Swedish liberal party have now announced that they will work towards making the EU a federation of states. In other words get rid of nation states.

As Dave says, you need to have a balance. We're not seeing that anymore. Britain was first, now we are seeing it in France, Germany, Sweden etc.

I respect the individuality of different cultures. Multiculturalism ruins that.

Cliches? Hardly. How many foreign influenced cliches do you want to get rid of out of curiosity. Will you be happy when we’re all cave dwellers again? Maybe you’d like to go back far enough so we’re back to the first settlers who first colonised the UK following the receding ice flows? Given that they came from Africa does that mean we’d all have to start blacking up?

The UK is a nation born out of globalisation. A failure to grasp that has made an army of little Englanders who have no clue as to how we arrived where we are today who can’t see that without foreign influence we wouldn’t be a shadow of the country we are. It’s people with your mentality that will see this country left behind.

 

[chiefdave]

Both are being investigated - The FT confirmed this in article - the link will not work.

Which article are you looking at? The only recent one I can find on the FT is 'Investigation into Vote Leave campaign spending reopens' which makes no mention of an investigation in to remain.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Cliches? Hardly. How many foreign influenced cliches do you want to get rid of out of curiosity. Will you be happy when we’re all cave dwellers again? Maybe you’d like to go back far enough so we’re back to the first settlers who first colonised the UK following the receding ice flows? Given that they came from Africa does that mean we’d all have to start blacking up?

The UK is a nation born out of globalisation. A failure to grasp that has made an army of little Englanders who have no clue as to how we arrived where we are today who can’t see that without foreign influence we wouldn’t be a shadow of the country we are. It’s people with your mentality that will see this country left behind.

It is people like you who will see this country destroyed.

I don't need to say anything more.