No, he always did sound a bit like me because he is a sensible poster.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (257 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
No, he always did sound a bit like me because he is a sensible poster.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And IIRC 1.7m more voted leave than remain.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Well it wasn't 27%
Which is how much as a percentage? 52:48 is a narrow margin.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The 27% considered it irrelevant and therefore chose their right to abstain
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes leave got 4% more of the vote than remain.
Hardly the will of the people.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Nearly 10% of the people that voted remain.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
By your and Daves argument then and applying percentages what percent of the available voting public chose to stay in the Eu?
And you claim that the vote was the will of the people knowing that most either voted remain or abstained. What right have you got to the claim that Brexit is their will when they didn’t even vote for it? If it was the will of the people it would have been a landslide. It wasn’t, so don’t claim it was.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha - most votes remain or abstained ha ha ha ha you clown
That is irrelevant as we are not claiming that that the will of the people was against Brexit. We are saying it wasn’t for Brexit either. It was actually split virtually down the middle with a lot of abstentions.
Most voted remain or abstained. Can’t you do maths at JLR?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What about the 90%? Are you claiming that a 52:48 plus many abstentions is the „will of the people“? The vote was won, but to use the old Nazi terminology is over the top. You won, get over it, but don’t exaggerate.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You’ve mentioned Nazis twice now Mart.
Yes, but you cannot call that the will of the people. The vote was split. Parliament is also split as is the cabinet. There is nothing on the table which represents anything like „the will of the people“. Using this Nazi terminology along with your hatred of multilateral organisations and posting racist remarks shows a certain underlying side to your persona.
Correct. This terminology stems from the Nazi propaganda in the 30s and their justification for their acts. I am interested to know why you keep quoting it, knowing that even in the Nazi sense, Brexit cannot be described as das Volkswillen. Why do you use this terminology?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I love how a trade deal is apparently going to sort out the Irish border issues. That will only work if the trade deal includes free movement of people. I honestly couldn’t say how many of my family who live in the north on the border rely on free movement of people to go to work everyday but it’s by far the majority of them. To give that some scope I have 46 first cousins in Northern Ireland all living along the border, all adults of working age, all with children the majority of who are of working age and a couple with grandchildren who aren’t yet working age. If they lose their rights to cross the border and work and then bring that money back into the UK to live it’s going to decimate there lives and the wider economy of Northern Ireland. I really don’t think people have grasped the seriousness of this situation regarding the Irish border and empty rhetoric from government members about being positive and pulling in the same direction ain’t going to change that and neither is some talk of some magical computer system that hasn’t been invented or even envisaged beyond the moronic mumblings of Boris Johnson.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t post racist remarks and oddly when you see where the remark came regarding the Italians from you went and said no comment. It’s not actually racist to be fair to Junker either - more the superior arrogance of the Marie Antionette character he is.
The country was offered two things.
1. A vote for a political party that was offering a referendum to leave Europe. This party was a minority party in the previous government and was allied to a very pro European Parliament. It won a majority so therefore was obliged to carry out the will of the people who voted for the referendum
2 An opportunity to leave or remain in Europe - the rules were very very clear stay or leave. I had no doubt at all the majority would vote for leave. A very very large leave vote was in the working class areas of the north
I am genuinely confused by the multilateral comment. The EU is far from that. It’s a fat cat quango where the actual decision makers are NEVER voted in by the population they represent and the 700 in the parliament are elected on low turnouts in many countries (oddly absent voters in Eu elections seem not to bother you)
I like many other civil libertarians from both sides of the political spectrum view this establishment as anti democratic. If I was in favour of facist ideology I’d support it as it’s built on classic facist ideology if you take the Latin it’s derived from literally. Namely centralise power to a few and remove the ability of change and choice for the many.
You are a lunatic and incapable of coherent debate,
It was amusing to a point but now you are becoming a bore.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Maybe the EU should tell us what Brexit is. This lot certainly doesn’t know 'Livid' Gove rips up EU customs report lord help us
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
48% of those who voted. 35% of registered voters, 31% of voting age population or 25% of total population.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Yes but that 34% of voting age population or 27% of total population still voted despite being told by the media that there was no point in them voting because the result was already a foregone conclusion.
How many more would also have voted Leave if they had known there was a good chance of winning?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Thats exactly the point, nobody can now how those that didn't vote would have voted or even why they didn't vote.
Its the same as claiming theres no point having another vote as everybody knew exactly what they were voting for and nobody would change their vote.
My vote certainly wouldn't be the same as it was before.
So in other words you were wrong to keep using the words „will of the people“ as it is obviously not supported by a large majority of people. You can call me a lunatic as much as you want but your hateful anti EU posts show clearly your hatred of the multinational parliament and council, and the fantastic achievement of creating the EU after the disasters of the 20 Century. The decision makers are the council- all elected representatives of their countries and the parliament all elected ( albeit by low turnouts which allow Freaks like Farage to get airtime ) MEPs. The civil service is the Commission and it’s leader is nominated by the political transnational groupings and then voted on by the council ( Juncker 26 for 2 against ). A percentage Victory that is a „will“ of the people who voted for him. Then the leader is confirmed by a parliamentary vote.
The fact that the EU stems from the attempt to stop fascism or a system dominating Europe, seems to annoy you intensely. You attack it with venom. You now claim that the democratic EU is fascist. Given the guarantees of people‘s rights and anti discrimination laws in the EU, your assertion is obviously false and you come across as a bitter fascist who wants to go back to a pre war aggressive nation state system,
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
But this is your problen really I think. At some stage you became EU positive for some reason. You cannot read between lines...I did answer the question in my response...& have referred recently to the fact that many so called experts think a bad deal is better for the UK than any shit deal the EU would prefer.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about to be honest
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Whether the EU or UK like it - there will be a transition period for both sides
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct. However if by that you mean had the no voters got off their backsides to vote the result might have been different...then 1. It might have been more convincing too 2. They sat on their backsides because they couldn't really give a damn whether we are in or out - since whatever the outcome, the impact on the majority of us will be minimal 3. It means that the majority of those that actually give a damn do not want to be a part of the EU anymore
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
The reult was as close to the will of the people as we could get. It is the fault of the political classes that have rendered people not caring enough to go vote
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
What you know that to be true of 52% of those who voted? You are simply falling for media reporting of selective surveys - themselves designed to mislead.
Now you & Mart & whoever can dispute that all you like, just like you dispute the result, the reasons people voted how they did, the fact that because it isn't your favoured result it is now only an advisory referendum & anything else you want...but we are leaving
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
As I have said before...4% pay increase would be gratefully received by most people. But you try telling them you're taking 4% off them & not to worry because it's only narrowly different to what they are already getting - just see what happens
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
But you could argue that 52% of non-voters (or more!) Would have voted to leave anyway so your point is totally invalid. They had the chance to vote to leave or to remain & they chose that they could not care less
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Yes, if we put a plan on the table.