The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (192 Viewers)

[Astute]

We can only take this common sense approach because of Brexit. That’s the very definition of pro brexit and by the way being anti EU at the same time. You’ve clearly got yourself in a mindset where you’re just going to argue the opposite of what I say on this thread. If I’m ever persuaded to turn pro brexit I’m fully expecting you to turn anti brexit. Can’t win.

Not at all.

So would it be a common sense approach? Yes or no?

Believe it or not but I am not anti EU. What I don't like about it is the way rules are made. Then if there is something wrong they don't like admitting that they are wrong and changing them back.

The EU is a very good idea. But having a single currency is not. And open borders are not a good idea either. They are now coming back to haunt them.

 

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[Grendel]

Of their own policy or ours?

The common fisheries policy has discarding as it wants equal competition in the seas

I doubt also it will agree the trading proposal or the alternative to freedom of movement

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

Does this agreement mean they will have to cut down all the trees in the UK

 

[skybluetony176]

The common fisheries policy has discarding as it wants equal competition in the seas

I doubt also it will agree the trading proposal or the alternative to freedom of movement

So what does that have to do with the changes to the fishing policy that the government is proposing once we leave?

 

[Grendel]

So what does that have to do with the changes to the fishing policy that the government is proposing once we leave?

They will not let us leave Tony without agreeing to continue the policy as it is. They will tie us to it - it’s not difficult

 

[chiefdave]

Well...now go analyze some EU deals from before Brexit & see how well Britain fared in them.

To save time why don't you just link to deals that will significantly better post Brexit or that we wouldn't have been able to sign post Brexit.

You are just NEVER going to be satisfied.

I would love to be satisfied, the issue I have at the moment is what I am seeing now bears very little resemblance to what I was promised when voting leave. From the moment the result was announced the prominent leave campaigners have been racing to distance themselves from what was promised in the campaign or even having anything to do with the actual leave process. We're only months away from our leave date and very little seems to have been achieved.

 

[skybluetony176]

They will not let us leave Tony without agreeing to continue the policy as it is. They will tie us to it - it’s not difficult

So how do Norway have their own fishing policy that includes no discarding and they’re more in the EU than we will be when we leave? They’re members of the EEA which includes membership to the common market and includes things like free movement of people. Sounds like you’re scaremongering again and it’s not based on anything factual at all. When you look at facts other countries who are tied in with the EU more than we will be when we leave the EU have the freedom to set their own fishing policies in their own waters. What you’re saying is half baked nonsense based on nothing that is actually happening in the real world. Grendull fact as it’s known around these parts.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Examples?

If you mean the EU...let us be current & say...migration & secondary migration?

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[SkyblueBazza]

You are just saying things.

What is wrong with you?

China stopped EU beef due to BSE.
The new EU deal is for 6 countries initially. Britain would never be a part of that as was fingerpointed as the cause of the initial ban. The EU would negotiate & the UK would be last on board. I can understand that. But Brexit is not the cause for us being 3yrs behind as was claimed earlier is it??? Left to the EU we would have been another 10-20yrs.
So this deal is bringing our inclusiin separate to the EU as a net gain.

Now do you understand? Or were you just fretting once you realised you agreed ealier on?

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[Astute]

So how do Norway have their own fishing policy that includes no discarding and they’re more in the EU than we will be when we leave? They’re members of the EEA which includes membership to the common market and includes things like free movement of people. Sounds like you’re scaremongering again and it’s not based on anything factual at all. When you look at facts other countries who are tied in with the EU more than we will be when we leave the EU have the freedom to set their own fishing policies in their own waters. What you’re saying is half baked nonsense based on nothing that is actually happening in the real world. Grendull fact as it’s known around these parts.

LIVE: 'We have Brexit transition deal', says Barnier

Read near the top. One line gives you an idea what Barnier says he wants.....

Then you have more of an explanation here....

EU TURNS UP THE HEAT: EU negotiator ready to punish British fishermen! | Fishing for Leave

 

[skybluetony176]

What is wrong with you?

China stopped EU beef due to BSE.
The new EU deal is for 6 countries initially. Britain would never be a part of that as was fingerpointed as the cause of the initial ban. The EU would negotiate & the UK would be last on board. I can understand that. But Brexit is not the cause for us being 3yrs behind as was claimed earlier is it??? Left to the EU we would have been another 10-20yrs.
So this deal is bringing our inclusiin separate to the EU as a net gain.

Now do you understand? Or were you just fretting once you realised you agreed ealier on?

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So was Ireland, they were equally culpable in the BSE crisis. They’re dealing beef with China as part of this deal.

 

[skybluetony176]

LIVE: 'We have Brexit transition deal', says Barnier

Read near the top. One line gives you an idea what Barnier says he wants.....

Then you have more of an explanation here....

EU TURNS UP THE HEAT: EU negotiator ready to punish British fishermen! | Fishing for Leave

That’s about access to waters. I’m talking specifically about the practice of how we fish, as is what’s been said by the British government.

 

[Astute]

So was Ireland, they were equally culpable in the BSE crisis. They’re dealing beef with China as part of this deal.

While several countries in the EU are not.

 

[Astute]

That’s about access to waters. I’m talking specifically about the practice of how we fish, as is what’s been said by the British government.

Read and digest.

No deal has been made. Barnier wants to keep our waters or he says that we won't be able to sell our fish in the EU. Although 60% of fish consumed in the EU comes from our waters. And the Norwegian fishermen rely on our waters.

Doesn't that tell you anything about the way negotiations are with everything? That is why we have to keep the no deal on the table. Otherwise we will be ruined if we agree to everything they say.

 

[skybluetony176]

Read and digest.

No deal has been made. Barnier wants to keep our waters or he says that we won't be able to sell our fish in the EU. Although 60% of fish consumed in the EU comes from our waters. And the Norwegian fishermen rely on our waters.

Doesn't that tell you anything about the way negotiations are with everything? That is why we have to keep the no deal on the table. Otherwise we will be ruined if we agree to everything they say.

The Norwegian fishermen access our waters though their members of the EEA and still facilitate their own law of no discarding. As will we be able to do regardless of what access to waters are agreed.

 

[chiefdave]

Brussels will not allow the fisheries amendment

They will not let us leave Tony without agreeing to continue the policy as it is. They will tie us to it - it’s not difficult

No deal has been made. Barnier wants to keep our waters or he says that we won't be able to sell our fish in the EU.

How do these statements line up with the notion that we hold all the cards in negotiations and the EU need us more than we need them? If that is correct why don't we get on with doing our own thing and wait for them to come crawling desperately back?

 

[Astute]

How do these statements line up with the notion that we hold all the cards in negotiations and the EU need us more than we need them? If that is correct why don't we get on with doing our own thing and wait for them to come crawling desperately back?

So we should let the EU keep rights to our fishing waters as they would be happy to lose 60% of the fish they eat?

 

[Astute]

The Norwegian fishermen access our waters though their members of the EEA and still facilitate their own law of no discarding. As will we be able to do regardless of what access to waters are agreed.

Yes we will as long as they don't say we have to keep to everything they say. And so far that has been all that they have said.

Nothing is certain until it is signed for.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The second paragraph is very interestinge. The other day I linked a very pro brexit article regarding what we will do post brexit with regards to fishing policies after. I approve of the post brexit plans on this subject, I welcome them whole heartedly, I even described it as a true argument for leave in my post. So the question now is who noticed it? One poster and one poster only. Chief Dave, my fellow doom merchant. Who was also positive about it and echoed my own comment and condemnation of the current commons fisheries policy. So the so called non doom merchants what happened to them when an actual real and tangible good news brexit story comes along? Astute was tied up as usual with his what about Junker policy, Grendull was busy explaining that he always answers questions as a way to not answer a question and who knows about the others.

Thing is I’m perfectly happy not only to acknowledge the good news stories but also debate them but the truth is there isn’t that many out there and even when there is it’s only the apparent doom merchants who want to highlight and discuss them on here. We could have had pages of discussion on the benefits of leaving the common fisheries policy but the truth is no one wanted to.

Yes - apologies. I remember the article. Waiting for the footy so can't be bothered to read the rest of the post lol

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[SkyblueBazza]

You like history:

I founded Ukip. It’s a national joke now and should disappear | Alan Sked

I couldn't actually give a toss about that

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[chiefdave]

But the point is...we may well be 3yrs behind the first EU countries. But we were never going to be one of the first. More like the very last...possibly 15yrs down the line which would equal a net gain of 12yrs! And that 3yrs is certainly not down to Brexit as was claimed!

The three years is down to us needing to negotiate market access. EU countries getting the same approval aren't having to do that, why?

I have seen nothing to suggest we would have some artificial delay of 15 years placed on us as a member of the EU, would be interested to see more detail on that.

The new EU deal is for 6 countries initially. Britain would never be a part of that as was fingerpointed as the cause of the initial ban. The EU would negotiate & the UK would be last on board. I can understand that. But Brexit is not the cause for us being 3yrs behind as was claimed earlier is it??? Left to the EU we would have been another 10-20yrs.
So this deal is bringing our inclusiin separate to the EU as a net gain.

Why would Britain not have been part of that? The inspections are of facilities were done by the Chinese on the same trip in April where they checked Irish facilities. Ireland are expected to resume exports in a matter of weeks having been approved, why can the UK having gained similar approval not begin at the same time?

When the UK does finally begin exports how is it a net gain of leaving the EU given it was nothing to do with the EU that exports stopped in the first place?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

To save time why don't you just link to deals that will significantly better post Brexit or that we wouldn't have been able to sign post Brexit.

I would love to be satisfied, the issue I have at the moment is what I am seeing now bears very little resemblance to what I was promised when voting leave. From the moment the result was announced the prominent leave campaigners have been racing to distance themselves from what was promised in the campaign or even having anything to do with the actual leave process. We're only months away from our leave date and very little seems to have been achieved.

Now you are becoming like Mart!
Just because YOU haven't beenn made aware doesn't mean things aren't happening!

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[chiefdave]

So we should let the EU keep rights to our fishing waters as they would be happy to lose 60% of the fish they eat?

Not at all. Just asking how, when we are supposed to be in the dominant position and leaving the EU to take back control, we are being dictated to by the EU? Shouldn't access to our waters be on our terms?

 

[chiefdave]

Now you are becoming like Mart!
Just because YOU haven't beenn made aware doesn't mean things aren't happening!

Doesn't mean it isn't happening but if it is happening why aren't people shouting about it and holding up examples of the bright post-Brexit future?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So was Ireland, they were equally culpable in the BSE crisis. They’re dealing beef with China as part of this deal.

Then why were they not putting us at the front of the queue I wonder?

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[SkyblueBazza]

Doesn't mean it isn't happening but if it is happening why aren't people shouting about it and holding up examples of the bright post-Brexit future?

Don't know - don't care

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[Grendel]

Not at all. Just asking how, when we are supposed to be in the dominant position and leaving the EU to take back control, we are being dictated to by the EU? Shouldn't access to our waters be on our terms?

Well Mart says it’s remaining in all but name.

Funniest site was Mr Euro frantically saying it’s a trap and designed so Europe reject in and they get blamed.

So that’s the point Dave isn’t it? It’s s reasonable compromise and unless you want to be tied to a modern day version of the Roman Empire or the Iron Curtain then we have to take control and just leave as what next? We have to join the euro? We have to adopt a common fiscal policy?

If this is as it seems and rejected by Europe would you be happy to salute Mr Junker and do what he tells us we can and cannot do?

 

[Astute]

Not at all. Just asking how, when we are supposed to be in the dominant position and leaving the EU to take back control, we are being dictated to by the EU? Shouldn't access to our waters be on our terms?

Of course they should be.

But you have the problem of how to negotiate with someone putting as much pressure as they can to make us stay. They give you two choices. Bend over and take it or say that we are preparing for no deal. But when we say we are preparing for no deal the remainers have a go. If we go along with it the remainers have a go.

So Juncker and Barnier are on a winner with the remainers whatever.

 

[Astute]

Not at all. Just asking how, when we are supposed to be in the dominant position and leaving the EU to take back control, we are being dictated to by the EU? Shouldn't access to our waters be on our terms?

Yes they should be. But look at my post above.

 

[Astute]

Doesn't mean it isn't happening but if it is happening why aren't people shouting about it and holding up examples of the bright post-Brexit future?

Yet again look at my posts above.

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course they should be.

But you have the problem of how to negotiate with someone putting as much pressure as they can to make us stay. They give you two choices. Bend over and take it or say that we are preparing for no deal. But when we say we are preparing for no deal the remainers have a go. If we go along with it the remainers have a go.

So Juncker and Barnier are on a winner with the remainers whatever.

The UK was supposed to hold all of the cards though and these would be the easiest negotiations ever, it was supposed to be the case of the UK having its cake and eating it and our might would mean the EU would do whatever we wanted because they need us more than we need them.

 

[Grendel]

The UK was supposed to hold all of the cards though and these would be the easiest negotiations ever, it was supposed to be the case of the UK having its cake and eating it and our might would mean the EU would do whatever we wanted because they need us more than we need them.

Well we do. We either agree a deal or we save £40 billion and leave.

You state the Eu values it’s citizens first so will agree. If it doesn’t a man of your principals will be first in the queue to leave.

 

[Sick Boy]

Well we do. We either agree a deal or we save £40 billion and leave.

You state the Eu values it’s citizens first so will agree. If it doesn’t a man of your principals will be first in the queue to leave.

The point was that we were told that the UK would basically be dictating the terms of any deal.

 

[Grendel]

So how do Norway have their own fishing policy that includes no discarding and they’re more in the EU than we will be when we leave? They’re members of the EEA which includes membership to the common market and includes things like free movement of people. Sounds like you’re scaremongering again and it’s not based on anything factual at all. When you look at facts other countries who are tied in with the EU more than we will be when we leave the EU have the freedom to set their own fishing policies in their own waters. What you’re saying is half baked nonsense based on nothing that is actually happening in the real world. Grendull fact as it’s known around these parts.

Why does Mr Euro think the same Tony? Are you more knowledgeable than Mr Euro?

As ever you try to sound intelligent and fail.

You’ve claimed to want a debate but everyone who challenges you gets the same tired juvenile insults. At least the racist slurs aren’t so frequent these days.

The sad thing is tiny you think you sound clever and witty but are just a bar room bore whose only audience is mad Mart in the corner.

 

[Grendel]

The point was that we were told that the UK would basically be dictating the terms of any deal.

No the point is if it’s proved the Eu are unreasonable and issues demands that would potentially ruin its member states you’d be the first to demand to leave having such humanitarian principals.