The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (19 Viewers)

[Astute]

Mmm. OK. Who are we going to sell all these extra fish that all these extra fleets are going to catch to exactly?

Every new car I’ve ever bought has been either from a U.K. manufacturer or made in the U.K. it doesn’t take brexit to make this remainer loyal to U.K. jobs. I stopped buying HP sauce when they moved production to the EU. Funnily enough of all my vocal leave friends the most vocal buys a new Mercedes every three years and still has HP in his cupboard.

So anyway because jobs have already been lost don’t you think the government should do everything it can to protect the rest? Isn’t that what governments are supposed to do.

We have to rely on other EU fleets catching fish in our water that we are not allowed to catch for our own needs.

But you know this.

 

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[Astute]

Because as the article points out fishing rights are being used as a bargaining chip and that was only ever going to be the case. The article is pretty clear about that.

The article is clear that we are only allowed to catch 9% of the fish in our own water. The other 91% goes to the other EU fleets.

Why should what is ours by right be used by the EU as a bargaining chip? They want to remain to be difficult they can go elsewhere. And if as you and Mart seem to think that they don't need our fish why are they continuing to want to take our rights away from us?

 

[Sick Boy]

We fish for shellfish because we can't fish for anything else. Our quota from the EU is negligible to what we need. But instead of having what should be ours we o lying have a few miles which is still ours. This is where the shellfish are.

But you know this.

The UK is only able to fish for shellfish? LOL

 

[Astute]

The EU’s tastes are more varied than ours. They’ll just change their eating habits if they have to. Plus as already pointed out most of the fish we supply the EU is processed and a lot of the whole fish for processing comes from Norway. What makes you think that Norway won’t just sell more fish to the EU processing plants instead of the U.K.? You seem to think that the EU will lose availability to the fish coming out of the U.K. Not necessarily the case, there’s more than one way to skin a fish.

Yes of course there is. They want to cherry pick.

Try to deny it.

 

[Astute]

Except we have no plans to change the system post-Brexit.
“We do not intend to change the method for allocating existing quota.”
Fisheries white paper: sustainable fisheries for future generations

And one of the biggest problems for our own fishermen, that 61% of our quota is allocated to just 3 companies (one of which is Dutch owned contributing to 44% of our quote we give away to foreign fishermen). That's nothing to do with the EU.

And what we can catch seem to bare little resemblance to what we import. For example we export 116K tonnes of salmon at £4.69 per kg while importing 90K tonnes of salmon at £5.24 per kg. However if you look at popular fish such as cod, tuna and haddock the imports dwarf the exports.

Of course the imports dwarf the exports. We are not allowed to catch our own fish. We can't even catch what we need.

So you show proposals. Just like Brexit so far is proposals. We seem to be offering rights to our water for a good trade deal.

So what chance is there of that?

No good trade deal then no rights to our water.

They won't get everything their own way. That is what the threat of no deal is all about. But many it seems would happily bend over and take it.

 

[Astute]

The UK is only able to fish for shellfish? LOL

So where did you get that from?

They are not allowed to fish our coastline. Which part of that do you not understand or as usual are you trying to twist words?

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course the imports dwarf the exports. We are not allowed to catch our own fish. We can't even catch what we need.

So you show proposals. Just like Brexit so far is proposals. We seem to be offering rights to our water for a good trade deal.

So what chance is there of that?

No good trade deal then no rights to our water.

They won't get everything their own way. That is what the threat of no deal is all about. But many it seems would happily bend over and take it.

Yeah we are really going to catch loads of tuna and prawns in British waters after Brexit.

 

[Sick Boy]

So where did you get that from?

They are not allowed to fish our coastline. Which part of that do you not understand or as usual are you trying to twist words?

"We fish for shellfish because we can't fish for anything else."

Your words, not mine.

 

[skybluetony176]

We fish for shellfish because we can't fish for anything else. Our quota from the EU is negligible to what we need. But instead of having what should be ours we o lying have a few miles which is still ours. This is where the shellfish are.

But you know this.

Do you think we’ve always fished shellfish or it’s been forced upon us by the EU? I’ll give you a clue. We’ve always fished for shellfish. It’s a completely different process. Cod fishermen didn’t all of a sudden become shellfishermen. Did you read up on the Cod wars? It seems to me you believe you’re quoting verse and chapter on something that you clearly know little about. I’m trying to help you out by telling you where to find the relevant information but you don’t seem to want to help yourself.

 

[Astute]

Yeah we are really going to catch loads of tuna and prawns in British waters after Brexit.

And your point is?

So are you saying that the EU catches the Tuna and Prawns we have? Or is it your normal deflection?

 

[martcov]

So why is that?

Reducing tax payable is not dodging tax. We have to keep to EU rules....Even though the EU itself doesn't keep to them.....to protect EU producers. This isn't tax avoidance like what Juncker designed and is heavily defended on here for.

But let's twist the truth to try and make a point that doesn't exist.

Pollock! Juncker got in effect a 2% tax rate for Amazon in Luxemburg. Now he is in favour of Minimum or unified EU corporation tax. What the UK is hinting at is undercutting the EU corporation tax. Exactly what Juncker did and you haven’t stopped complaining about.

 

[Astute]

"We fish for shellfish because we can't fish for anything else."

Your words, not mine.

Strangely enough you missed out the part where I said how we still have the rights to catch what we want within a few miles of our coastline.

But I wouldn't expect anything else from you on this subject.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes of course there is. They want to cherry pick.

Try to deny it.

Try reading this link Ukip is wrong: British fishing answers to Westminster not Brussels | John Lichfield

It’s very revealing and educational. Education you severely need.

 

[Sick Boy]

And your point is?

So are you saying that the EU catches the Tuna and Prawns we have? Or is it your normal deflection?

No, I'm continuing with what I said earlier about UK tastes requiring fish to be imported. I'm not deflecting anything.

 

[Astute]

Do you think we’ve always fished shellfish or it’s been forced upon us by the EU? I’ll give you a clue. We’ve always fished for shellfish. It’s a completely different process. Cod fishermen didn’t all of a sudden become shellfishermen. Did you read up on the Cod wars? It seems to me you believe you’re quoting verse and chapter on something that you clearly know little about. I’m trying to help you out by telling you where to find the relevant information but you don’t seem to want to help yourself.

How about the truth for once?

This was in the same link I provided

With fish quota hard to come by, inshore fishermen here have increasingly turned to crab, lobster and whelk to make ends meet and 85% of the total shellfish haul is exported.

Yes they can't catch fish so had to change to shellfish.

 

[martcov]

Of course the imports dwarf the exports. We are not allowed to catch our own fish. We can't even catch what we need.

So you show proposals. Just like Brexit so far is proposals. We seem to be offering rights to our water for a good trade deal.

So what chance is there of that?

No good trade deal then no rights to our water.

They won't get everything their own way. That is what the threat of no deal is all about. But many it seems would happily bend over and take it.

I get my Pollock from Greenland over Iceland. So, Britain, or British waters, is by no means the only source of fish in the EU.

 

[martcov]

How about the truth for once?

This was in the same link I provided

With fish quota hard to come by, inshore fishermen here have increasingly turned to crab, lobster and whelk to make ends meet and 85% of the total shellfish haul is exported.

Yes they can't catch fish so had to change to shellfish.

And where are exporting to? And by whose trade deals?

 

[Astute]

Pollock! Juncker got in effect a 2% tax rate for Amazon in Luxemburg. Now he is in favour of Minimum or unified EU corporation tax. What the UK is hinting at is undercutting the EU corporation tax. Exactly what Juncker did and you haven’t stopped complaining about.

Bollocks.

Try the truth for once. Luxembourg would take a million or two instead of billions. We have to charge more tax because the EU says. We have to charge VAT on certain items because the EU says.

But you know this.

 

[Astute]

I get my Pollock from Greenland over Iceland. So, Britain, or British waters, is by no means the only source of fish in the EU.

So why is the EU so desperate to keep their hands on what should be ours?

 

[Astute]

And where are exporting to? And by whose trade deals?

So do you agree with me?

They would prefer to catch fish. They would make more money.

But it doesn't sound good for the point you are trying to make.

 

[Astute]

No, I'm continuing with what I said earlier about UK tastes requiring fish to be imported. I'm not deflecting anything.

Yes you are. You say we import much more than we export. But you want to ignore the reason why.

 

[skybluetony176]

No, I'm continuing with what I said earlier about UK tastes requiring fish to be imported. I'm not deflecting anything.

90% of Cod eaten in the U.K. comes from Norway, Iceland and Russia. Leaving the EU is going to make very little difference to the U.K. Cod fleet. Most North Sea Cod isn’t available to the U.K. fleet in or out of the EU. “Fish don’t pay attention to borders” quoting the article I linked earlier. Astute has bought a lie from the leave campaign wholesale. It’s a very complicated situation and the answer isn’t the simplistic view of certain parties.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes you are. You say we import much more than we export. But you want to ignore the reason why.

The Cod Wars. I’ve already told you.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes you are. You say we import much more than we export. But you want to ignore the reason why.

Where do I say we import more than we export? Yet another lie.

 

[Astute]

Try reading this link Ukip is wrong: British fishing answers to Westminster not Brussels | John Lichfield

It’s very revealing and educational. Education you severely need.

An EU biased view from someone living in France. Says it all to me.

If you read what was put on here you would think that most in the UK want to stay in the EU. And that the EU is great.

 

[Astute]

The Cod Wars. I’ve already told you.

In what way?

 

[Sick Boy]

An EU biased view from someone living in France. Says it all to me.

If you read what was put on here you would think that most in the UK want to stay in the EU. And that the EU is great.

How have you come to that view? There are more Brexiteers on this thread than Remainers.

 

[Astute]

Where do I say we import more than we export? Yet another lie.

Either you or one of the other two.

Just a normal day. Twist the truth when trying to say what I have said is wrong.

Would you like me to uncover your lies from today more clearly?

The evidence is out there.

 

[Sick Boy]

Either you or one of the other two.

Just a normal day. Twist the truth when trying to say what I have said is wrong.

Would you like me to uncover your lies from today more clearly?

The evidence is out there.

So I didn't actually say it and you made it up?

No change there then.

 

[Astute]

How have you come to that view? There are more Brexiteers on this thread than Remainers.

Name.them.

Especially by amount of posts. Just you, Mart and Tony must do more than half of the full total of posts. And most of them are twisting the truth.

 

[Sick Boy]

Name.them.

Especially by amount of posts. Just you, Mart and Tony must do more than half of the full total of posts. And most of them are twisting the truth.

What's the truth? Your own personal opinion?

I hardly post on this thread these days as it's a waste of time and pretty boring.

 

[Astute]

So I didn't actually say it and you made it up?

No change there then.

Ah so trying to keep up with 3 if you twisting the truth at the same time is easy to keep up with?

Ok the EU doesn't need our fish. We get our tuna and Prawns from the EU. And we don't need our water back to become self sufficient.

Just carry on twisting the truth between yourselves. I will read and have a laugh later.

 

[skybluetony176]

In what way?

Read the link I’ve provided twice now. Look for yourself to find out where we import Cod from and how. I’ve given the figures already but please feel free to fact check them. If you look for the details the more obvious it is that the lie that you’ve clearly bought wholesale is a lie. Do yourself a favour and go and educate yourself. I’ve given you hints and supplied links as has CD.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ah so trying to keep up with 3 if you twisting the truth at the same time is easy to keep up with?

Ok the EU doesn't need our fish. We get our tuna and Prawns from the EU. And we don't need our water back to become self sufficient.

Just carry on twisting the truth between yourselves. I will read and have a laugh later.

Yet more made up rubbish.

Point out where I said we get our prawns and tuna from the EU?

The only one making stuff up and twisting everything is you, as usual.

What could be an interesting thread of debate is ruined by you making stuff up constantly.

 

[skybluetony176]

Bollocks.

Try the truth for once. Luxembourg would take a million or two instead of billions. We have to charge more tax because the EU says. We have to charge VAT on certain items because the EU says.

But you know this.

We could cut VAT by a quarter tomorrow under EU rules and always could. It’s another Red Herring.