The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (100 Viewers)

[Astute]

You’re damn straight it isn’t the deal I want us to get. I want better. What’s on offer is a gazillion times worse than joining the single market. Joining the single market would be infinitely better for the U.K. It’s an insult but you’re clambering all over it through ignorance.

Er no.

I have said it is good that we are getting invited to have talks. I also said only an idiot could say if it is good or bad.

You have made the rest up and said it can only be bad. But the EU getting deals with the same countries is good.

 

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[Astute]

All you’ve said is that the EU would love to do deals with the countries in it. I looked, they have. Australia is the only one that hasn’t reached an agreement with the EU and that’s in discussion, when I say discussion I don’t mean the Australian PM has made a comment in an interview with a newspaper to the effect that they’d like to do a deal. I mean actual discussions and negotiations. You’re answer crashed and burned because it was a flippant comment with no understanding behind it. Five minutes on google would have prevented you from making that claim.

All made up bile again I see.

So how good are these deals that the EU have then?

 

[Astute]

As opposed to leaving the single market to join another trading block that actually might be a hindrance to the U.K. economy than a benefit? How are you going to measure these millions exactly?

Ha ha. And as for residents from those countries have you ever been to London. You can’t move for Aussies and New Zealander’s. Vietnamese won’t need to come here, we’ll send the jobs to them.

So are we leaving the EU just to join the TPP?

And thousands of jobs never left the UK to go to the EU?

You love half truths. Better than your normal no truths though.

And do you need reminding that the highest immigrant population is now from Romania?

 

[skybluetony176]

Perhaps you can - like you explained why Britain left the ERM when interest rates were 7% or know details of Geoffrey Howes resignation speech or indeed have detailed knowledge of JFK

Then again wiki man - maybe you can’t

It’s very simple. You’re assumption is that there’s nothing stopping companies outsourcing jobs from the US to Vietnam anyway. Tariffs do. If those products made from jobs outsourced to Vietnam from America then have to come back into the US as a member of the TPP Trump or whoever the president is for that matter can’t apply tariffs to them. If they leave the TPP they can and that’s what he done. That was his election campaign pledge. Leave the TPP to protect US jobs from being outsourced to the region. Obama thought it was more important to raise the America’s presence in the region to negate China’s presence in the area.

 

[skybluetony176]

So are we leaving the EU just to join the TPP?

And thousands of jobs never left the UK to go to the EU?

You love half truths. Better than your normal no truths though.

And do you need reminding that the highest immigrant population is now from Romania?

I don’t need reminding of anything. I am still waiting for you to give a tangible reason for joining the TPP though. That I do need. Over to you.

 

[Sick Boy]

TPP a major positive?

A positive is seeing that countries are inviting us to trade deal talks.

Shall we say about certain posters who have a go at anything that could be good for the UK?

Deals that are good for the EU but bad for the UK?

Lol

 

[skybluetony176]

Er no.

I have said it is good that we are getting invited to have talks. I also said only an idiot could say if it is good or bad.

You have made the rest up and said it can only be bad. But the EU getting deals with the same countries is good.

We’re not being invited for talks. A few hours ago you assumed that we were in advance talk with the TPP until I pointed out to you it was a comment in a newspaper interview. We’re being invited to join an existing block. There is no conversation other than no thank you or yes please. There’s no negotiations on terms.

The EU has deals with the countries as individuals tailored to suit. Not a off the peg reject.

 

[skybluetony176]

All made up bile again I see.

So how good are these deals that the EU have then?

I made it up. Okay then, let’s hear your other reasons then.

The deals are tailored to suit. It doesn’t get any better than that and apparently that’s why we had to leave. So we could make our own trade deals, not leave one trading block for another. If we accept the invitation it will be through lazy politics and nothing more. It will also be contrary to the leave argument.

 

[Astute]

I don’t need reminding of anything. I am still waiting for you to give a tangible reason for joining the TPP though. That I do need. Over to you.

It is you that is pissed off that the offer has been made.

I have asked what offer is on the table. You know the offer is bad but know not a lot about the offer. As I have said a few times you seem pissed off that countries want deals with us. It doesn't go with what you have been saying for ages.

 

[Astute]

Lol

Really worth commenting wasn't it.

So what part was wrong?

 

[Astute]

We’re not being invited for talks. A few hours ago you assumed that we were in advance talk with the TPP until I pointed out to you it was a comment in a newspaper interview. We’re being invited to join an existing block. There is no conversation other than no thank you or yes please. There’s no negotiations on terms.

The EU has deals with the countries as individuals tailored to suit. Not a off the peg reject.

So are you saying that talks are not on going and we wouldn't be allowed a say?

It isn't the EU you know.

 

[Astute]

I made it up. Okay then, let’s hear your other reasons then.

The deals are tailored to suit. It doesn’t get any better than that and apparently that’s why we had to leave. So we could make our own trade deals, not leave one trading block for another. If we accept the invitation it will be through lazy politics and nothing more. It will also be contrary to the leave argument.

It isn't a trade deal that has a rule where you can't make other trade deals. It is the EU that has that with us.

So come on then. What are the deals on offer? I don't know. Neither do you. But you know they are bad.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is you that is pissed off that the offer has been made.

I have asked what offer is on the table. You know the offer is bad but know not a lot about the offer. As I have said a few times you seem pissed off that countries want deals with us. It doesn't go with what you have been saying for ages.

What benefit will there be for the U.K. in joining the TPP?

I note you’re struggling to answer the question. Hence the distraction.

 

[skybluetony176]

It isn't a trade deal that has a rule where you can't make other trade deals. It is the EU that has that with us.

So come on then. What are the deals on offer? I don't know. Neither do you. But you know they are bad.

I repeat. What is the benefit for the U.K. in joining the TPP?

I note that you are having trouble answering the question.

 

[skybluetony176]

So are you saying that talks are not on going and we wouldn't be allowed a say?

It isn't the EU you know.

No. It’s worse.

 

[Astute]

What benefit will there be for the U.K. in joining the TPP?

I note you’re struggling to answer the question. Hence the distraction.

Distraction? That is your tactic.

Looks like a free trade agreement. A free trade agreement with several countries. So what is bad about that?

 

[Astute]

No. It’s worse.

Come.on then. Spit out what you know.

And I see there is no comment from you about the latest dodgy dealings in the EU that paid off the commission when looking into the Selmayr fiasco.

Ignore everything bad about the EU and try to make everything look bad for the UK even when you hardly know anything. Then you expect to be taken seriously.

 

[skybluetony176]

Distraction? That is your tactic.

Looks like a free trade agreement. A free trade agreement with several countries. So what is bad about that?

So you’re going to blindly keep your fingers crossed. You don’t know why it will be good but it just will. Also I don’t think it’s a complete FTA, it’s comprehensive but there will still be tariffs. No guarantee that it will be tariffs that protect us and grows trade. Or for that matter grow our trade over and above the trade we do under the terms that the EU has with TPP individual members. Yet alone the trade deals the EU has agreed with Japan and Canada and is working on with Australia. Then you have to factor in the lost trade with the EU from Brexit.

Why will it be better than what we’re walking away from?

 

[martcov]

It isn't all signed and started.

But it isn't the start that you wanted us to get. You was hoping it would take us years to get anywhere. And you are pissed off that countries want trade deals with us.

What is signed and started?

 

[skybluetony176]

Come.on then. Spit out what you know.

And I see there is no comment from you about the latest dodgy dealings in the EU that paid off the commission when looking into the Selmayr fiasco.

Ignore everything bad about the EU and try to make everything look bad for the UK even when you hardly know anything. Then you expect to be taken seriously.

Yeah, distraction my tactic. Says the man who’s just asked me to talk about something that’s already been done to death. No thanks. I won’t entertain your favourite distraction by giving it oxygen.

 

[martcov]

Come.on then. Spit out what you know.

And I see there is no comment from you about the latest dodgy dealings in the EU that paid off the commission when looking into the Selmayr fiasco.

Ignore everything bad about the EU and try to make everything look bad for the UK even when you hardly know anything. Then you expect to be taken seriously.

What did the „EU“, whatever you class as the „EU“, pay the Commission ( an integral part of the EU )?

 

[martcov]

So you’re going to blindly keep your fingers crossed. You don’t know why it will be good but it just will. Also I don’t think it’s a complete FTA, it’s comprehensive but there will still be tariffs. No guarantee that it will be tariffs that protect us and grows trade. Or for that matter grow our trade over and above the trade we do under the terms that the EU has with TPP individual members. Yet alone the trade deals the EU has agreed with Japan and Canada and is working on with Australia. Then you have to factor in the lost trade with the EU from Brexit.

Why will it be better than what we’re walking away from?

According to Abe, he hopes it will „minimize the damage caused by Brexit“. Doesn‘t sound like going upwards to me. Just trying to save what can be saved seeing as Japanese firms have invested in the UK.

 

[Grendel]

It’s very simple. You’re assumption is that there’s nothing stopping companies outsourcing jobs from the US to Vietnam anyway. Tariffs do. If those products made from jobs outsourced to Vietnam from America then have to come back into the US as a member of the TPP Trump or whoever the president is for that matter can’t apply tariffs to them. If they leave the TPP they can and that’s what he done. That was his election campaign pledge. Leave the TPP to protect US jobs from being outsourced to the region. Obama thought it was more important to raise the America’s presence in the region to negate China’s presence in the area.

Well done Tony. You’ve basically argued the case against the Eu, for protectionism and against any form of customs union or freedom of movement.

 

[skybluetony176]

According to Abe, he hopes it will „minimize the damage caused by Brexit“. Doesn‘t sound like going upwards to me. Just trying to save what can be saved seeing as Japanese firms have invested in the UK.

TPP collectively doesn’t even equal the trade that the U.K. does with Germany alone. Benefits of membership of the TPP are being wildly overplayed. That’s if the lame duck ever gets of the ground in the first place.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well done Tony. You’ve basically argued the case against the Eu, for protectionism and against any form of customs union or freedom of movement.

So you wouldn’t welcome membership of the TPP then for the same principle that you don’t back membership of the EU?

Also I hate to piss on your chips but it’s Trumps argument not mine. I was just relaying what he’s said. Not sure what freedom of movement has to do with it either. Clearly you’ve just thrown that one in for fun.

 

[Astute]

So you’re going to blindly keep your fingers crossed. You don’t know why it will be good but it just will. Also I don’t think it’s a complete FTA, it’s comprehensive but there will still be tariffs. No guarantee that it will be tariffs that protect us and grows trade. Or for that matter grow our trade over and above the trade we do under the terms that the EU has with TPP individual members. Yet alone the trade deals the EU has agreed with Japan and Canada and is working on with Australia. Then you have to factor in the lost trade with the EU from Brexit.

Why will it be better than what we’re walking away from?

Fuck me.

Just read back at the shite you are coming out with.

Cross my fingers? What good will that do?

I say it is positive news that other countries are waiting to do trade deals with us after leaving the EU. You make a full story out of it.

Two things made the referendum happen.

1, Cameron. He felt the pressure and wanted to get votes back from UKIP.

2, UKIP voters. You was a UKIP voter.

It is people like you that are to blame for the whole fiasco. You got your wish. Then you worked out your wish isn't what you wanted. But the horse has bolted. And it has left people like myself to suffer. I have worked hard for over 30 years for 2 main reasons.

1, I have brought up a large law abiding family. Still have another 9 years 1 month to go. Have already been bringing kids up for over 30 years.

2, To travel for the rest of my days where we are capable. Just 9 years 1 month to go. People like you who voted UKIP might have fucked my lifelong plans up.

Then I have you going on constantly about me wanting to leave the EU. You can't get your couple of brain cells to understand that it wasn't what I wanted. It wasn't what I voted for. But it is what you voted for. And now you cry your eyes out every day about it.

So we are where we are. It looks like it is happening.

So what can we do now?

Now it is down to damage limitation. And to move forward and get stronger. We need trade deals. I don't want us half in half out of the EU. There is a good chance they would stop us from trade deals elsewhere. They would still want money off us each year. They still want freedom of movement. So in other words we would be out of the EU but still in it. In other words in a worse situation than now.

And now you want me to agree with you that all free trade agreements are bad. Because it is what TPP looks like.

But when it comes down to it if millions like yourself didn't vote UKIP it wouldn't be happening.

Well done Tony for being on the winning side for once.

Now grow up and think of what is best in the situation that people like yourself caused which will make people like myself suffer. Then you have the balls to try and blame people like myself when I have nothing to do with it. All I want is the best for my kids.

 

[Astute]

Yeah, distraction my tactic. Says the man who’s just asked me to talk about something that’s already been done to death. No thanks. I won’t entertain your favourite distraction by giving it oxygen.

And here you go again.

Let's not talk about the EU being corrupt. Let's not talk about the EU having it looked into. And for the EU commission looking into it?

For condemning it but taking no action they got offered payments for three years after they leave the job. They also can get friends and family jobs where they don't have to go through the normal process. They don't have to pass the hard tests that have had to be taken for many years.

But let's not talk about any of it.

Don't worry. Have a few more things where fraud and breaking of rules and regulations by those at the top of the EU have occurred to come out with yet.

Yes Mr UKIP voter. Blame the world but not yourself. And carry on not wanting what is best for the UK after we leave. You are just as insignificant as myself in this fiasco. But at least I didn't have any part in this fiasco unlike yourself.

 

[Astute]

What did the „EU“, whatever you class as the „EU“, pay the Commission ( an integral part of the EU )?

Read again.

As you admitted those who took part in the investigation have been offered three years wages after leaving their post. On average over a quarter of a million each. Not a payment or sweetener?

Then you have jobs for friends and family that shouldn't be available as my link proved to you. All organised after the job which was given to Selmayr that you now admit was a scam and similar

European Commission's "Equal Opportunity" Practices Under Fire | EU Training

So they say that scams like giving Selmayr the job won't happen again. That makes it OK to you. There are many things they do that shouldn't happen. But as long as they say it won't happen again you will be happy.

 

[Astute]

TPP collectively doesn’t even equal the trade that the U.K. does with Germany alone. Benefits of membership of the TPP are being wildly overplayed. That’s if the lame duck ever gets of the ground in the first place.

If that is the case why is it such a victory if the EU makes a trade agreement with Australia and Japan?

Why is it always brilliant if the EU does it but absolutely wrong or crap if the UK does it?

 

[Astute]

So you wouldn’t welcome membership of the TPP then for the same principle that you don’t back membership of the EU?

Also I hate to piss on your chips but it’s Trumps argument not mine. I was just relaying what he’s said. Not sure what freedom of movement has to do with it either. Clearly you’ve just thrown that one in for fun.

Why is it you throw all kinds of accusations at someone if they mention Trump in any way. But it is OK for you to talk about Trump being right for once when it helps with your next bit of UK bashing.

 

[Astute]

So you wouldn’t welcome membership of the TPP then for the same principle that you don’t back membership of the EU?

Also I hate to piss on your chips but it’s Trumps argument not mine. I was just relaying what he’s said. Not sure what freedom of movement has to do with it either. Clearly you’ve just thrown that one in for fun.

Trumps argument not yours?

Errrrr

US tariffs make world 'more dangerous'

 

[shmmeee]

Distraction? That is your tactic.

Looks like a free trade agreement. A free trade agreement with several countries. So what is bad about that?

Call it a hunch, but something tells me you haven’t a fucking clue about international trade.

 

[martcov]

I don't have an axe to grind. I

Haha

 

[clint van damme]

Distraction? That is your tactic.

Looks like a free trade agreement. A free trade agreement with several countries. So what is bad about that?

you've been advocating walking away from dozens of free trade agreements for the entirety of this thread.

 

[martcov]

So are you saying that talks are not on going and we wouldn't be allowed a say?

It isn't the EU you know.

Are you saying we weren’t allowed a say in the EU? We helped make the rules of the EU, and they are being kept. That’s why we are having trouble having ou ccake and eating it. Don’t say no rules are kept. It’s crap. Rules are broken in every country in the world, and that is a crime or misdemeanour, and not allowed. There are constant investigations, sanctions and judgements against rule breaking. In the U.K. and the EU. There are people who get away with things they shouldn’t,such as Liam Fox, American business‘ representative in the U.K. government. Or, Selmayr/ Juncker in the EU. The EU is a far more advanced trading bloc than the TPP which hs not been ratified.