The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (87 Viewers)

[Astute]

Anyhow. Meanwhile back in the real world the most powerful woman in British politics is calling the shots again.

Tory-DUP Brexit war of words intensifies

When I say most powerful woman in British politics I did of course mean Arlene Foster, not Teresa May. Not even an elected MP.

So the financial matters of countries in the EU being in danger don't matter as they are not in the real world. But the real world that is more important than the financial mess concerning many trillions of Euros which is something a woman has said.

Yeah OK Tony.

 

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[skybluetony176]

So the financial matters of countries in the EU being in danger don't matter as they are not in the real world. But the real world that is more important than the financial mess concerning many trillions of Euros which is something a woman has said.

Yeah OK Tony.

Like you understand what’s happening in the financial industry of Europe. It’s a layer cake. I don’t understand anything about any one of those layers anymore than you do.

Besides, I thought institutions being run by someone not elected to them was your bugbear. I’d have thought this would upset you more than anyone. Certainly over “correcting” someone on an industry you know Jack about anyway.

 

[martcov]

Anyhow. Meanwhile back in the real world the most powerful woman in British politics is calling the shots again.

Tory-DUP Brexit war of words intensifies

When I say most powerful woman in British politics I did of course mean Arlene Foster, not Teresa May. Not even an elected MP.

Yes, well no surprise there. 48% of those bothered to vote, voted remain. More in Northern Ireland. Remain is dead easy. There is only one version. Now, the 52% leavers are divided and are at war with each other. There are least 5 different versions of leave in the 48% ( if you include a small number of "I've changed my mind" voters ). The absolute majority, if all 4 versions of leave ( without those who have changed their minds ) and 1 remain option were on the voting slip, would be remain. The rest are just fighting themselves over whose version of leave is the right one. A minority wants Chequers, another Canada +, another Norway, and yet another No Deal. The will of the people is clearly remain, all other options are minority options and incompatible with one another. Sad state of affairs when it is clear as daylight, the majority will not be in favour of any of the options in play right now. The will of the majority will be ignored as the UK commits economic suicide. And some just want to talk about Selmayr and the EC and hope that the EU suffers and that the Euro collapses. Then they will feel justified in supporting the most undemocratic fxxk up of mylifetime.

 

[Astute]

I am not interested in Carney. I think it is a good idea that he is staying to complete the Brexit mess. That's it. You'll now say that I am defending him or that he wasn't elected, or some other crap...

You say he is right this time. Yes, it may be that he hasn't seen any proposal yet, but there is no way that nothing is going on in the background.

So why has nothing happened since March?

So you say that there won't be a trade deal that benefits the UK in some way but those who run the banking system in the UK know nothing about the banking system in the UK?

Don't you understand the seriousness of it all?

EU countries will be forced into a massive sell off containing trillions of Euros worth of derivatives and similar. They would have to go at a cut price. Nothing is in place. And putting something in place will take time. As you keep reminding us we could crash out of the EU at the start of next year without a deal. Because there are a lot of people that will make enough trouble not to accept a bad deal for the UK. You even think it is a good idea that we get a vote on the deal.

Do you really think it would happen now?

Because the EU is more important than a good trade deal you constantly tell us.

 

[Astute]

Like you understand what’s happening in the financial industry of Europe. It’s a layer cake. I don’t understand anything about any one of those layers anymore than you do.

Besides, I thought institutions being run by someone not elected to them was your bugbear. I’d have thought this would upset you more than anyone. Certainly over “correcting” someone on an industry you know Jack about anyway.

What would you like to know?

 

[martcov]

So the financial matters of countries in the EU being in danger don't matter as they are not in the real world. But the real world that is more important than the financial mess concerning many trillions of Euros which is something a woman has said.

Yeah OK Tony.

Financial matters are in danger in the UK as well. You seem to think that we are out of everything that is happening around us. You didn't answer about London dropping to second place just ahead of Hong Kong. I would have thought that that is a bad sign. Besides which, the UK government collapsing in the middle of important negotiations is far more important to the UK than what may or may not happen to the EU if the Euro clearing system has to be regulated by a third party country.

 

[skybluetony176]

Gibraltar status is URGENT - Spain demands talks AFTER Brexit

Northern Ireland, Scotland, Gibraltar. The break up of the union was a leave scare story. Apparently. Still, at least we’ll keep Wales so the ECB should remain undamaged. Every cloud and all that.

 

[skybluetony176]

What would you like to know?

Ha ha ha ha.

 

[Astute]

Financial matters are in danger in the UK as well. You seem to think that we are out of everything that is happening around us. You didn't answer about London dropping to second place just ahead of Hong Kong. I would have thought that that is a bad sign. Besides which, the UK government collapsing in the middle of important negotiations is far more important to the UK than what may or may not happen to the EU if the Euro clearing system has to be regulated by a third party country.

New York is ahead of HK. Same as London is.

So how was the link that you supplied worked out?

Would you like to explain how the LSE which is much smaller than the NYSE in size could be bigger?

 

[Astute]

Ha ha ha ha.

Exactly.

You know nothing. So you expect me to know nothing.

So what would you like to know?

 

[martcov]

So why has nothing happened since March?

So you say that there won't be a trade deal that benefits the UK in some way but those who run the banking system in the UK know nothing about the banking system in the UK?

Don't you understand the seriousness of it all?

EU countries will be forced into a massive sell off containing trillions of Euros worth of derivatives and similar. They would have to go at a cut price. Nothing is in place. And putting something in place will take time. As you keep reminding us we could crash out of the EU at the start of next year without a deal. Because there are a lot of people that will make enough trouble not to accept a bad deal for the UK. You even think it is a good idea that we get a vote on the deal.

Do you really think it would happen now?

Because the EU is more important than a good trade deal you constantly tell us.

I take it that the financial part is separate to the trade part and that financial services are more important to the UK. Carney is saying to the EU that they need the UK. The EU hasn't commited itself to anything. Carney says they should do so or face the consequences. The financial side has nothing to with what is being argued about with Barnier at this stage.

The UK banks need 'passporting' or banking licenses in the EU. The EU needs a solution to the clearing system and it's regulatory supervision by a third party country which is not allowed under existing rules as London was always in the EU. No one envisaged dealing with third party countries. So, the rules have to be changed as suggested in my link. There will be some form of trade off as no one in the EU or in the UK is going to wreck the other side's financial system. They would be harming themselves. But, as I said, this has nothing to do with the Irish border or the possible collapse of the UK government through Brexit infighting between the various minority factions.

 

[skybluetony176]

Financial matters are in danger in the UK as well. You seem to think that we are out of everything that is happening around us. You didn't answer about London dropping to second place just ahead of Hong Kong. I would have thought that that is a bad sign. Besides which, the UK government collapsing in the middle of important negotiations is far more important to the UK than what may or may not happen to the EU if the Euro clearing system has to be regulated by a third party country.

The fact that London is the financial capital of the world makes it especially vulnerable. It’s not happened by accident, it’s happened partly if not largely because we’re in the EU and London’s growth in this sector has been turbocharged because it’s seen as a gateway into Europe. Any damage for the EU is more than likely to be short term in this sector, however London could lose sections of trade permanently and the migration of that trade to an EU country will be a permanent gain for said EU country. Ireland, France and the Netherlands all selling themselves already for such a scenario.

 

[martcov]

New York is ahead of HK. Same as London is.

So how was the link that you supplied worked out?

Would you like to explain how the LSE which is much smaller than the NYSE in size could be bigger?

The link was the same as the one you supplied, but more up to date ( September 2018 ). You claimed with your out of date link ( 2017 ) that London was the number one financial centre by the criteria of the organisation that you quoted. You were wrong. You said London was stronger. They claim NY is stronger and that HK is catching up with London in their ratings. You were wrong. Who is on about being 'bigger' or 'smaller'? Don't you ever read what you post? I answered with the same criteria that you gave me. So, ask yourself how the link worked out - it's your link.

 

[martcov]

Exactly.

You know nothing. So you expect me to know nothing.

So what would you like to know?

Haha ... you don't even check the dates of your own links..

 

[skybluetony176]

Exactly.

You know nothing. So you expect me to know nothing.

So what would you like to know?

Same as you. How do I know? Because I’ve read your posts. All your doing is rehashing things you’ve read and then mashing them together until they become noise. Only confirmed by you twice now asking me what I want to know. If you knew you wouldn’t be asking, you would already know what I need to know.

Truth is I don’t need to know anything. Like I said it’s a layer cake. What ever happens, hard brexit, soft brexit, customs union, WTO there will be winners and losers from within the layer cake and unless a U.K. based bank gets brought down and tax payer bailouts start getting handed out like confetti again it isn’t going to effect me and you.

 

[Astute]

I take it that the financial part is separate to the trade part and that financial services are more important to the UK. Carney is saying to the EU that they need the UK. The EU hasn't commited itself to anything. Carney says they should do so or face the consequences. The financial side has nothing to with what is being argued about with Barnier at this stage.

The UK banks need 'passporting' or banking licenses in the EU. The EU needs a solution to the clearing system and it's regulatory supervision by a third party country which is not allowed under existing rules as London was always in the EU. No one envisaged dealing with third party countries. So, the rules have to be changed as suggested in my link. There will be some form of trade off as no one in the EU or in the UK is going to wreck the other side's financial system. They would be harming themselves. But, as I said, this has nothing to do with the Irish border or the possible collapse of the UK government through Brexit infighting between the various minority factions.

Everything is interlinked.

The derivatives market is massive. Bigger than we could all imagine. Each type of the market is massive.

Can you imagine how massive the section just based on oil is? How many companies would like to safeguard themselves against the price of just oil?

So what do you think is put up as financial structures to combat whatever the risk is for whatever is being bet against?

Yes shares are a large part of it.

To dumb it down and simplify it let's try an easy one. Oil. If your company depends on the price of oil and the price going up would hurt it then derivatives are a good answer. Maybe a mix of shares in oil companies as their shares should go up with the price of oil. Then add a bit of interest rates in with it. Maybe purchase assets to do with the oil industry. Add a bit of whatever currency that normally goes up with the price of oil.

That is the easy part.

Then you need to work out how much is needed to offset the price where money can be made whatever happens. Some are for short some are for long.

Or would you like the more complex and more precise explanation?

But whatever happens yes shares are involved.

And the EU has it all in hand and will be ready to go at the start of next year if needed.

 

[Astute]

The fact that London is the financial capital of the world makes it especially vulnerable. It’s not happened by accident, it’s happened partly if not largely because we’re in the EU and London’s growth in this sector has been turbocharged because it’s seen as a gateway into Europe. Any damage for the EU is more than likely to be short term in this sector, however London could lose sections of trade permanently and the migration of that trade to an EU country will be a permanent gain for said EU country. Ireland, France and the Netherlands all selling themselves already for such a scenario.

This post shows you don't have a clue. And strangely enough Mart agrees with you.

That is unless the EU has been involved for 150 years or more. Why don't you have a look on how long London has been involved in this sort of thing. We were stronger before the EU was even thought of.

 

[Astute]

The link was the same as the one you supplied, but more up to date ( September 2018 ). You claimed with your out of date link ( 2017 ) that London was the number one financial centre by the criteria of the organisation that you quoted. You were wrong. You said London was stronger. They claim NY is stronger and that HK is catching up with London in their ratings. You were wrong. Who is on about being 'bigger' or 'smaller'? Don't you ever read what you post? I answered with the same criteria that you gave me. So, ask yourself how the link worked out - it's your link.

Error no. One was 2017 the other was 2018. I reposted the 2018 one as it is more up to date. But you have to mention the 2017 one. What a shock.

 

[Astute]

Haha ... you don't even check the dates of your own links..

What dates?

 

[Astute]

Same as you. How do I know? Because I’ve read your posts. All your doing is rehashing things you’ve read and then mashing them together until they become noise. Only confirmed by you twice now asking me what I want to know. If you knew you wouldn’t be asking, you would already know what I need to know.

Truth is I don’t need to know anything. Like I said it’s a layer cake. What ever happens, hard brexit, soft brexit, customs union, WTO there will be winners and losers from within the layer cake and unless a U.K. based bank gets brought down and tax payer bailouts start getting handed out like confetti again it isn’t going to effect me and you.

Totally wrong.

If it brings down an EU based bank the whole world could suffer. And suffer badly.

If you need proof do you remember what happened about 10 years ago?

And it is affect not effect.

I have posted about what could be affected. You post for effect and nothing else.

 

[martcov]

Gibraltar status is URGENT - Spain demands talks AFTER Brexit

Northern Ireland, Scotland, Gibraltar. The break up of the union was a leave scare story. Apparently. Still, at least we’ll keep Wales so the ECB should remain undamaged. Every cloud and all that.

Plaid Cymru is not so impressed. Still they are only a minority.

 

[martcov]

What dates?

2017 as opposed to September 2018

 

[skybluetony176]

This post shows you don't have a clue. And strangely enough Mart agrees with you.

That is unless the EU has been involved for 150 years or more. Why don't you have a look on how long London has been involved in this sort of thing. We were stronger before the EU was even thought of.

The irony of this post is of the scale. Where exactly have I said London hasn’t been involved in the financial industry pre EU membership? That’s right, I haven’t. You then go onto tell us that the financial sector is 150 years or more, when you say more I’m sure you don’t mean 300 more because you would have said over 400 years old. That’s exactly why I don’t need you of all people to tell me about London as a financial centre. I was wrong when I said that you know as much as me, you clearly don’t and I’ve already confessed to knowing fuck all about it. But at least I know the basics.

 

[martcov]

Error no. One was 2017 the other was 2018. I reposted the 2018 one as it is more up to date. But you have to mention the 2017 one. What a shock.

I posted the 2018 one.You went on about the 2017 one. More lies.

 

[martcov]

Everything is interlinked.

The derivatives market is massive. Bigger than we could all imagine. Each type of the market is massive.

Can you imagine how massive the section just based on oil is? How many companies would like to safeguard themselves against the price of just oil?

So what do you think is put up as financial structures to combat whatever the risk is for whatever is being bet against?

Yes shares are a large part of it.

To dumb it down and simplify it let's try an easy one. Oil. If your company depends on the price of oil and the price going up would hurt it then derivatives are a good answer. Maybe a mix of shares in oil companies as their shares should go up with the price of oil. Then add a bit of interest rates in with it. Maybe purchase assets to do with the oil industry. Add a bit of whatever currency that normally goes up with the price of oil.

That is the easy part.

Then you need to work out how much is needed to offset the price where money can be made whatever happens. Some are for short some are for long.

Or would you like the more complex and more precise explanation?

But whatever happens yes shares are involved.

And the EU has it all in hand and will be ready to go at the start of next year if needed.

Trade is a differnet negotiation to financial services. The rest is not relevant to that.

 

[skybluetony176]

Totally wrong.

If it brings down an EU based bank the whole world could suffer. And suffer badly.

If you need proof do you remember what happened about 10 years ago?

And it is affect not effect.

I have posted about what could be affected. You post for effect and nothing else.

There’s more chance of it bringing down a U.K. bank for one simple reason. The EU’s risk is spread other a far greater number of institutions and countries than in the U.K. and the U.K. alone. It’s basic math.

 

[Astute]

The irony of this post is of the scale. Where exactly have I said London hasn’t been involved in the financial industry pre EU membership? That’s right, I haven’t. You then go onto tell us that the financial sector is 150 years or more, when you say more I’m sure you don’t mean 300 more because you would have said over 400 years old. That’s exactly why I don’t need you of all people to tell me about London as a financial centre. I was wrong when I said that you know as much as me, you clearly don’t and I’ve already confessed to knowing fuck all about it. But at least I know the basics.

So you have checked what I said and found out it has been going for hundreds of years. This makes me wrong?

Have a day off Tony.

So how big was it hundreds of years ago?

You are getting very pathetic.

You don't even know the difference between effect and affect.

 

[Astute]

I posted the 2018 one.You went on about the 2017 one. More lies.

Remember this link? Or have you forgotten about it already?

World’s Top 10 Financial Cities as of 2018 - Stash Learn

You was saying Mart?

Why don't you look back?

More lies? Yes. But not from me.

 

[Astute]

Trade is a differnet negotiation to financial services. The rest is not relevant to that.

Thanks for proving you don't have a clue about the subject. And that was after dumbing it down for you.

We are playing by the EU rules. We negotiate they don't listen. So is the trade deal just trade as in things sold to each other? Are financial services sold? Could they be joined together? Ask the EU. They are the ones saying they are not allowed to use our services after leaving. But have a look. Services are traded. Are things that are traded counted as trade?

Yes it is complex if you don't understand. It isn't easy even if you do. This is most probably why those ruining the EU have underestimated the problem ahead. Yet you seem to think they will sort it in no time as they have 3 plans :shifty:

 

[Astute]

There’s more chance of it bringing down a U.K. bank for one simple reason. The EU’s risk is spread other a far greater number of institutions and countries than in the U.K. and the U.K. alone. It’s basic math.

Go take your head for a shake Tony.

You don't have the slightest clue do you. We are well covered. We have things put in place. It isn't us saying that we won't be able to use a tried and tested system. It isn't us that has trillions of Euros at stake. It isn't us that will have to sell trillions of Euros of derivatives at a discounted rate because we are saying that we are not allowed to hold them. But it is us that will be able to buy them at a discounted rate. This won't do our banks any harm.

This isn't me being anti EU. This is me saying it how it is. And I have a feeling that those ruining the EU have only just realised how much in the shit they could be.

But of course the EU doesn't need us for anything.

 

[Astute]

Wow Mart you are right. London has lost top spot.

Wow Mart you are wrong. It has been taken back by New York......by 2 points. London is second. HK is 3rd. Checked the official sites and not a site that says what you want.

London has over 50% of the trade for the whole of Europe. No surprise there.

 

[skybluetony176]

Go take your head for a shake Tony.

You don't have the slightest clue do you. We are well covered. We have things put in place. It isn't us saying that we won't be able to use a tried and tested system. It isn't us that has trillions of Euros at stake. It isn't us that will have to sell trillions of Euros of derivatives at a discounted rate because we are saying that we are not allowed to hold them. But it is us that will be able to buy them at a discounted rate. This won't do our banks any harm.

This isn't me being anti EU. This is me saying it how it is. And I have a feeling that those ruining the EU have only just realised how much in the shit they could be.

But of course the EU doesn't need us for anything.

That’s right I don’t have the slightest clue, like you.

A drop in a big pond is less damaging than a drop in a small pond. You don’t have to be a genius to understand that.

You have confirmed one of my original comments though. You’re clearly just repeating a load of stuff you’ve read, mashed them together and now it’s just noise.

Not sure why you don’t think the EU need us for anything. Certainly no one else has been suggesting that.

 

[skybluetony176]

London has over 50% of the trade for the whole of Europe. No surprise there.

Thanks largely to passporting under EU membership. A big loss to London. Confirmation that London has the most to lose.

 

[Astute]

That’s right I don’t have the slightest clue, like you.

A drop in a big pond is less damaging than a drop in a small pond. You don’t have to be a genius to understand that.

You have confirmed one of my original comments though. You’re clearly just repeating a load of stuff you’ve read, mashed them together and now it’s just noise.

Not sure why you don’t think the EU need us for anything. Certainly no one else has been suggesting that.

1, Name a reason why I don't have a clue. Because I have tried explaining it to you. But you either don't want to hear the truth or you don't have enough working brain cells to understand.

2, A drop in a big pond? OMG do you know how much a trillion Euros really are? Then if you do try multiplying it.

3, Explain how you have come to this comprehension. You being lacking in intelligence doesn't mean the rest of the world does. My learning come from my wife's brother (sadly died a few years ago so don't dare take the piss out of him) who had plenty of high up jobs in the city. Most people found it boring. But I have always had an interest in financial matters. And have said so on here several times before.

4, Nobody thinks the EU needs us? FFS read this thread. Read your own comments. We will crash and burn but the EU will get along great. I have lost count of comments like this. Just like your comment here about a small splash in a big pond.

And how about my claims that I think the EU will come round for a deal. No they won't is normally said as they don't need us.

 

[Astute]

Thanks largely to passporting under EU membership. A big loss to London. Confirmation that London has the most to lose.

So explain.

Has London got stronger since the EU started up?

Not at all.

Did countries from Europe use London before the EU? Yes 100%.

The EU has done fuck all for London. But now it is just another pebble to add to the list on why we should stay in the EU. But those ruining the EU have fucked up this time.