The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (314 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

I pointed out that Salmayrs appointment was no different to the way that we appoint our leading civil servant. How was that chatting shit exactly given that that has just been proven to be exactly the case? I was bang on. It was you who chatted endless pages of shit on the subject and constantly used it to change directions of conversation onto the EU. And now you’re attempting to do it again.

It was different - nobody left their post/died at a crucial moment in a given situation...along with others withdrawing their applications to smooth their path.

Both, under normal circumstances stink...but one stinks significantly worse to me.

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[dutchman]

Marine Le Pen is now more popular than Macron.

She always was. Macron only won with the support of the French left who only voted for him so as to keep Le Pen out, the same French left which is now rioting in the streets against Macron's austerity policies!

 

[martcov]

You mean even in the face of all that scaremongering over 18months or so - people STILL want to leave?

The sample of 20000...I know they can prove with lies lies & statistics that it is representative - but the only sample that matters(/ered) was in 2016.

Were this kind of thing happen all the time & actually mattered much, virtually every government would be deposed after local elections, or equivalent in virtually every democracy.

Give it up...we are leaving

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Says a remainer. According to him.

 

[martcov]

It was different - nobody left their post/died at a crucial moment in a given situation...along with others withdrawing their applications to smooth their path.

Both, under normal circumstances stink...but one stinks significantly worse to me.

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Yes it would. Juncker‘s coup was at least a college of 3. It was covered by a clause for use in urgency. Brexit was the urgency. There were 2 inquiries, including one by the ombudsman. The parliament was in uproar. There was major discussion. The outrage Brexit press, and the European press, was all over a lack of democratic procedure.

May made an appointment alone and without discussion. Corbyn critised it. That was all. I know which one stinks more.

 

[martcov]

Have you?

Try naming the person, job title and the official way to apply for the job. Which rules were broke.

And you compare it to the top EU job which is a job for life.

And you also tried to say May never got voted in the right way. That was certainly you chatting shite.

No one applied for the job. Only May knew about the job. The guy‘s representative said he would never come back and May appointed her own loyal lieutenant. No one was consulted, no one applied. End of story. Corbyn said it was out of order to appoint someone without considering others. May said it was because of Brexit. There are more civil servants in the UK than in the EU. The job is more powerful than Selmayr’s. Whitehall runs the UK.

 

[martcov]

Have you?

Try naming the person, job title and the official way to apply for the job. Which rules were broke.

And you compare it to the top EU job which is a job for life.

And you also tried to say May never got voted in the right way. That was certainly you chatting shite.

I asked you to name the head of the civil service weeks ago.

 

[martcov]

I have gone through it with you before. But you just chat shite on the subject.

OK. Let's go through the motions again. Mention the person. Show the job they got. Show the UK government rules on getting the post. And mention how high up the position is. Because you make out that it made the fact of Selmayr gettingthe job OK.

Just like when you tried to make out that May got her position without going down the proper way.

Then we will mention Selmayr. We will mention the EU rules and regulations. We will mention that he is in charge of 22,000 civil servants. We will mention that it is counted as the highest position you can have in the EU. We will mention that it is a job for life. We will mention of the blackmail from Juncker if Selmayr was removed from the post.

He has not got the job for life. He retires like any other civil servant.

There are more civil servants in the UK than the EU.

Blackmail? He would have resigned.

It’s 32000 civil servants.

You try to make out May‘s appointment is worse. You show the democratic rules for appointing the head of the UK civil service.

 

[Sick Boy]

So remind me what I said about Ireland?

This is your normal reply when you don't like something I have said. You add words to it then bring in other subjects and make out that I have made comments that I haven't. And you have taken this from me saying about younger residents leaving poorer countries and leaving them in trouble for the future. Somehow Ireland comes into it.

Trump? WOW.

If you want to bring him into it go for it. He is a twat who will make racism worse in America. He is using the same tactics as those in the EU. Blame those coming into the country. But I suppose you can change the meaning for this and will somehow change it to saying that I think Trump is great.

So what do you think of Le Pen getting more votes than Macron? All the fault of Trump? Or has France suddenly become racist in your view?

Do you genuinely not understand the connection and why I have mentioned Ireland in relation to Romania and high levels of emigration, seriously?!!

Nowhere have I said that you mentioned Ireland, I was using it an example to show what you were saying simply doesn't add up when looking at a country like Ireland.

As usual you've turned it into something all about you - zzzz

You have blamed the rise of the right on EU, yet ignored that it's also a growing trend in Amercia, hence the reference to Trump.

Anyway, it's priceless that you've just attacked Trump and ignored your previous posts where you've consistently blamed all sorts on immigration into the UK.

 

[Astute]

Do you genuinely not understand the connection and why I have mentioned Ireland in relation to Romania and high levels of emigration, seriously?!!

Nowhere have I said that you mentioned Ireland, I was using it an example to show what you were saying simply doesn't add up when looking at a country like Ireland.

As usual you've turned it into something all about you - zzzz

You have blamed the rise of the right on EU, yet ignored that it's also a growing trend in Amercia, hence the reference to Trump.

Anyway, it's priceless that you've just attacked Trump and ignored your previous posts where you've consistently blamed all sorts on immigration into the UK.

I genuinely don't get most links that you make. Yet I understand why you point out that I frequently have a go at the way the EU is run but ignore when I frequently have a go at everyone else. You just want to make out that I am biased.

So I was looking at a country like Ireland? Would you like to explain how Romania is like Ireland? They have whole areas where most young people have left Romania. Who is left to look after the old? Not a problem SB says. It is just like Ireland

And yes the rise of the right is partly similar in the EU and America. Keep immigration down. Or are you going to try and dispute this? Suppose you will as it is you who brought it up to muddy the water.

All about me? Nothing to do with me. It has all been about you and your partner. It has been about where you want to live and why. And I don't blame you one little bit. You have your future with your partner who is Italian to think about. If it was all about me I would also be seriously biased on the side of staying in the EU. I am now exactly 9 years to when I retire as my little boy is 9 this month. I want to spend the last of my years travelling. Brexit could stop me from travelling in the EU.

And back onto the UK. You have tried to say that our lack of housing and affordable housing has nothing to do with the open door policy within the EU. It has nothing to do with the millions of people that have come here. You blame the Tories for selling off council housing. But these homes are still lived in. Yes they can be blamed for not building enough. But so can Labour. You say our population should rise by over half a million a year. I say we need to catch up with the infrastructure. You look for someone to blame other than the rules that have helped the situation get worse. Yet you try to make out that it is all about me.

There is good and bad about the EU. This is supposed to be a debate. Yet if you dare to mention any bad about the EU there is a few of you ready to pounce on any comment you don't like.

OK. We all agree that right wingers are growing in most of the EU. Only an idiot would try to deny it. If it has nothing to do with the EU and the rules would you like to explain what is causing the problem?

 

[Astute]

I have chosen the BBC as you can't deny that they are biased towards the EU. It is a couple of months out of date. But let's ignore what has happened in France since. It explains the rise of the right and far right. I find it worrying although some of you don't seem to think that it is much of a problem.

Is Europe seeing a nationalist surge?

 

[martcov]

I genuinely don't get most links that you make. Yet I understand why you point out that I frequently have a go at the way the EU is run but ignore when I frequently have a go at everyone else. You just want to make out that I am biased.

So I was looking at a country like Ireland? Would you like to explain how Romania is like Ireland? They have whole areas where most young people have left Romania. Who is left to look after the old? Not a problem SB says. It is just like Ireland

And yes the rise of the right is partly similar in the EU and America. Keep immigration down. Or are you going to try and dispute this? Suppose you will as it is you who brought it up to muddy the water.

All about me? Nothing to do with me. It has all been about you and your partner. It has been about where you want to live and why. And I don't blame you one little bit. You have your future with your partner who is Italian to think about. If it was all about me I would also be seriously biased on the side of staying in the EU. I am now exactly 9 years to when I retire as my little boy is 9 this month. I want to spend the last of my years travelling. Brexit could stop me from travelling in the EU.

And back onto the UK. You have tried to say that our lack of housing and affordable housing has nothing to do with the open door policy within the EU. It has nothing to do with the millions of people that have come here. You blame the Tories for selling off council housing. But these homes are still lived in. Yes they can be blamed for not building enough. But so can Labour. You say our population should rise by over half a million a year. I say we need to catch up with the infrastructure. You look for someone to blame other than the rules that have helped the situation get worse. Yet you try to make out that it is all about me.

There is good and bad about the EU. This is supposed to be a debate. Yet if you dare to mention any bad about the EU there is a few of you ready to pounce on any comment you don't like.

OK. We all agree that right wingers are growing in most of the EU. Only an idiot would try to deny it. If it has nothing to do with the EU and the rules would you like to explain what is causing the problem?

You are fanatically against the EU. You bend everything. Latest being to pretend May‘s appointment of her loyal lieutenant is not as bad, or lacking of democracy, as Juncker‘s appointment of his loyal lieutenant. There was zero democracy involved as it was a civil servant post. In the EU there was a college of 3 who appointed Selmayr and investigations and open discussions.

The right is rising in Europe largely because of non EU immigration and the EU‘s ability to control it, egged on by populists. Different countries are more affected than others. Countries have varying other economic problems.

Voters objecting to EU rules, FOM, or Selmayr’s appointment are not causing the rise of the right.

 

[martcov]

I have chosen the BBC as you can't deny that they are biased towards the EU. It is a couple of months out of date. But let's ignore what has happened in France since. It explains the rise of the right and far right. I find it worrying although some of you don't seem to think that it is much of a problem.

Is Europe seeing a nationalist surge?

BBC are under fire for giving Farage and Banks a platform. Farage has been on Question Time over 30 times. Banks is under investigation or in the paper on 9 different cases, but he was on Marr and will now be on Question Time. Crime pays.

Farage is rolled out on discussion programs as the voice of Brexit. But, you obviously don’t watch BBC.

 

[martcov]

And the same people questioned don't think that any of Boris, Corbyn or Farage would do a worse job than May.

It seems most people I work with vote Tory. One main reason is we pay less tax under a Tory government. Or how about final salary pensions? Labour policies destroyed them. This is another big reason why they say they vote Tory. Their kids won't be able to have an affordable way of a comfortable retirement.

But then when you ask the younger generations they have a go at the older generations for taking everything and leaving them with nothing. Older generations had cheaper homes to buy....although interest rates under Labour were astronomical. And they also had pensions that are as rare as hens teeth these days. So they vote Labour as those who got everything vote Tory.

Ask the right questions to the right people and you will get the answers you want.

I still vote Labour. They are not best for me but I think more of my children. But Brexit is a difficult one. I didn't vote Brexit. I still don't think overall that it is a good idea.

But the EU can't continue as it is. It needs to reform and quickly. But those at the top don't want reform. They want their project to continue as it is. They want people to leave poor countries and move to rich countries. They don't care what happens to the poor countries after they have left. And now people have had enough. The right wing is growing.

Marine Le Pen is now more popular than Macron. It was only last year that Macron and his party easily beat Le Pen. Yet of course it is only the UK that has a problem with the EU. But as I have continually said right wing parties throughout the EU are growing in strength. And that isn't a good thing.

French far-right overtakes Macron in EU parliament election poll

Your older workmates are happy to vote Tory to pay less tax, and then when the infrastructure, schools and NHS fall apart they blame the migrants and not lack of funding caused by too little tax revenue.

 

[martcov]

I have gone through it with you before. But you just chat shite on the subject.

OK. Let's go through the motions again. Mention the person. Show the job they got. Show the UK government rules on getting the post. And mention how high up the position is. Because you make out that it made the fact of Selmayr gettingthe job OK.

Just like when you tried to make out that May got her position without going down the proper way.

Then we will mention Selmayr. We will mention the EU rules and regulations. We will mention that he is in charge of 22,000 civil servants. We will mention that it is counted as the highest position you can have in the EU. We will mention that it is a job for life. We will mention of the blackmail from Juncker if Selmayr was removed from the post.

I notice you don’t mention UK rules for appointing the top civil servant. Although you constantly go on about the EU rules which are on display for everyone to read. I even posted the clause which Juncker used to slip his loyal lieutenant in. He used the sub paragraph about urgency and based it on Brexit. May‘s exact excuse to Corbyn.

 

[martcov]

It isn't me that has an agenda. It is you.

So are right wing politics growing in the EU like I said? I noticed you never mentioned that.

The problem you have with me is I don't defend anyone and have a go at just about everyone when the evidence is there. But your job on here seems to be to defend the EU.

So Romania is growing? I said about the younger people leaving causing problems. I notice you never denied this fact. How about being truthful to the situation for once? And this isn't blaming the EU although you will try to make out that I am.

That 400,000 Romanians live in the UK is a tragedy for their homeland | Claudia Ciobanu

New Statistics Confirm Romania’s Demographic Catastrophe - Emerging Europe

Romania was dirt poor under communism. It still is poor. But, the infrastructure is better and there are people doing well. The young want to earn money now and not wait until wages have risen. No surprise there and the EU has given them a chance. But, you knock the EU. Romania does need the younger people, but would you prefer them to live in poverty than have the chance to leave?

 

[Astute]

Romania was dirt poor under communism. It still is poor. But, the infrastructure is better and there are people doing well. The young want to earn money now and not wait until wages have risen. No surprise there and the EU has given them a chance. But, you knock the EU. Romania does need the younger people, but would you prefer them to live in poverty than have the chance to leave?

The reason I have you blocked is that you don't have reasoning. I say about the problems caused. You want praise for the EU. You don't care about the problems caused. Nobody is supposed to mention the problems caused. Yes it is good for the up to 25% of the population of Romania that has left the country. Yes up to a quarter of the population has left. Not a problem you say.


Romanian Migrant Workers Leave 96,000 Children Behind


A Romanian village feels the country’s emigration pain

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

 

[skybluetony176]

I genuinely don't get most links

I’m sure no one is surprised by that admission.

 

[Astute]

I’m sure no one is surprised by that admission.

So how about commenting on what you say isn't a problem?

 

[martcov]

The reason I have you blocked is that you don't have reasoning. I say about the problems caused. You want praise for the EU. You don't care about the problems caused. Nobody is supposed to mention the problems caused. Yes it is good for the up to 25% of the population of Romania that has left the country. Yes up to a quarter of the population has left. Not a problem you say.


Romanian Migrant Workers Leave 96,000 Children Behind


A Romanian village feels the country’s emigration pain

The EU has not boosted Romania – but millions of Romanians have left the country

You blocked me for pointing out your mistakes.

I don’t want praiseworthy the EU. I want you to stick to the truth and be objective. It would help when you would stop telling me what I say.

I didn’t say it is not a problem. I said it is no surprise. Classic Astute.

 

[Sick Boy]

I genuinely don't get most links that you make. Yet I understand why you point out that I frequently have a go at the way the EU is run but ignore when I frequently have a go at everyone else. You just want to make out that I am biased.

So I was looking at a country like Ireland? Would you like to explain how Romania is like Ireland? They have whole areas where most young people have left Romania. Who is left to look after the old? Not a problem SB says. It is just like Ireland

And yes the rise of the right is partly similar in the EU and America. Keep immigration down. Or are you going to try and dispute this? Suppose you will as it is you who brought it up to muddy the water.

All about me? Nothing to do with me. It has all been about you and your partner. It has been about where you want to live and why. And I don't blame you one little bit. You have your future with your partner who is Italian to think about. If it was all about me I would also be seriously biased on the side of staying in the EU. I am now exactly 9 years to when I retire as my little boy is 9 this month. I want to spend the last of my years travelling. Brexit could stop me from travelling in the EU.

And back onto the UK. You have tried to say that our lack of housing and affordable housing has nothing to do with the open door policy within the EU. It has nothing to do with the millions of people that have come here. You blame the Tories for selling off council housing. But these homes are still lived in. Yes they can be blamed for not building enough. But so can Labour. You say our population should rise by over half a million a year. I say we need to catch up with the infrastructure. You look for someone to blame other than the rules that have helped the situation get worse. Yet you try to make out that it is all about me.

There is good and bad about the EU. This is supposed to be a debate. Yet if you dare to mention any bad about the EU there is a few of you ready to pounce on any comment you don't like.

OK. We all agree that right wingers are growing in most of the EU. Only an idiot would try to deny it. If it has nothing to do with the EU and the rules would you like to explain what is causing the problem?

I will try and make this simple for you to understand.

Ireland has historically had a lot of emigration, just like how Romania has recently and it has been an EU member much longer than Romania.

Ireland also used to be incredibly poor historically and look at it now comared to then.

Emigration is much lower compared to decades ago and it is richer.

If you genuinely don't understand the comparison and why it was made, then I'm speechless.

Also, I don't think I've ever mentioned the Tories selling off council housing, that's another long list of claims you've attributed to people.

Your comments about debates are ridiculous, you frequently take everything away from a debate and debase it by deliberately being obtuse.

 

[skybluetony176]

So how about commenting on what you say isn't a problem?

You wouldn’t understand anything I said or linked anyway so what would be the point?

 

[Astute]

I will try and make this simple for you to understand.

Ireland has historically had a lot of emigration, just like how Romania has recently and it has been an EU member much longer than Romania.

Ireland also used to be incredibly poor historically and look at it now comared to then.

Emigration is much lower compared to decades ago and it is richer.

If you genuinely don't understand the comparison and why it was made, then I'm speechless.

Also, I don't think I've ever mentioned the Tories selling off council housing, that's another long list of claims you've attributed to people.

Your comments about debates are ridiculous, you frequently take everything away from a debate and debase it by deliberately being obtuse.

So you compare Ireland when the potato famine occurred to Romania where the young and old are left to fend for themselves?

And the rest of what you have said is also rubbish.

Could you bring yourself to comment on the situation that the young and old in Romania are in? I suppose not as everything is going well.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you compare Ireland when the potato famine occurred to Romania where the young and old are left to fend for themselves?

And the rest of what you have said is also rubbish.

Could you bring yourself to comment on the situation that the young and old in Romania are in? I suppose not as everything is going well.

The potato famine? Fucking hell.

 

[Astute]

You wouldn’t understand anything I said or linked anyway so what would be the point?

As expected.

Yes it is good that they can earn good money. And we should turn a blind eye to the rest of it. It is fantastic news that up to a quarter of the population has left. And even better that most that have left are of working age. And even better that they can't fill vacancies because they can earn many times more in other places in the EU.

So answer one thing. What does the future hold for Romania?

 

[Astute]

The potato famine? Fucking hell.

So how far in the past was meant when a high proportion of the Irish population left Ireland?

 

[Sick Boy]

So how far in the past was meant when a high proportion of the Irish population left Ireland?

You'd be better off going away and reading some books rather than keeping up this pretense of omnipresent wisdom.

 

[skybluetony176]

So how far in the past was meant when a high proportion of the Irish population left Ireland?

He’s talking about last century especially under the rule and politics of Eamonn De Valera. Which was most of last century.

 

[Astute]

You'd be better off going away and reading some books rather than keeping up this pretense of omnipresent wisdom.

So when was there a mass exodus of Ireland?

Not me that has mentioned it. I didn't even mention Ireland. So why should I go on a wild goose chase?

The lengths that some of you will go to trying to make things sound better than they are.

 

[Astute]

He’s talking about last century especially under the rule and politics of Eamonn De Valera. Which was most of last century.

So when was it?

Shouldn't be too hard to answer. You compare a mass exodus of Ireland to the mass exodus of Romania. Let's hear your story.

 

[Sick Boy]

So when was it?

Shouldn't be too hard to answer. You compare a mass exodus of Ireland to the mass exodus of Romania. Let's hear your story.

So now it has progressed from emigration to mass exodus.

Also, as something who is omnipresent and only 'speaks the truth', I am sure you are aware that Romania is about 5-times the size Ireland, population wise.

 

[skybluetony176]

So when was it?

Shouldn't be too hard to answer. You compare a mass exodus of Ireland to the mass exodus of Romania. Let's hear your story.

It’s not my story, my family is from the North. It is history though and modern history so you can easily find out for yourself. If you can be arsed you will obviously see the comparison. I’ve given you a pointer go and educate yourself, lord knows it’s sorely needed.

 

[Astute]

So now it has progressed from emigration to mass exodus.

Also, as something who is omnipresent and only 'speaks the truth', I am sure you are aware that Romania is about 5-times the size Ireland, population wise.

So up to 25% of the population leaving isn't a mass exodus?

And back to the truth. Romania used to have a population about 4 times the size of Ireland. Romania now has a population about 3 times the size of Ireland. Yes approximately the size of the population of Ireland has left Romania.

And BTW this doesn't include Northern Ireland.

If it isn't a mass exodus what is it?

 

[skybluetony176]

So up to 25% of the population leaving isn't a mass exodus?

And back to the truth. Romania used to have a population about 4 times the size of Ireland. Romania now has a population about 3 times the size of Ireland. Yes approximately the size of the population of Ireland has left Romania.

If it isn't a mass exodus what is it?

People left Ireland permanently, never to go back. People are leaving Romania but the majority intend to return as they’re leaving their children with relatives in the interim and many are here purely for seasonal work. The same couldn’t be said of Ireland under De Valera when overloaded ships were coming to the mainland U.K. on an almost daily basis at the peak and many more went to the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Astute]

It’s not my story, my family is from the North. It is history though and modern history so you can easily find out for yourself. If you can be arsed you will obviously see the comparison. I’ve given you a pointer go and educate yourself, lord knows it’s sorely needed.

But you are chatting shit.

So when did about 25% of the population of Ireland leave?

You should know your history. You should know if I am right or wrong. I know I am right. But such a hard thing for you to admit to though isn't it.

 

[Astute]

People left Ireland permanently, never to go back. People are leaving Romania but the majority intend to return as they’re leaving their children with relatives in the interim and many are here purely for seasonal work. The same couldn’t be said of Ireland under De Valera when overloaded ships were coming to the mainland U.K. on an almost daily basis at the peak and many more went to the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

He was president of Ireland from 1959 to 1973.

Ireland Population (2018) - Worldometers